Hello,

 

I recently designed a logo for a client. It was orally agreed that the Job would be done for £50 cash as it was part of a bigger job to have numerous signs manufactured featuring the logo.

 

The client chose not to get the signs made with us and has told us that he plans on using the logo, but he will only give us £25 for it as we "screwed him" on the price of the signs. (we actually told him that we could not do the signs for the price that he wanted and recommended a cheaper company who are now doing the signs for him)

 

As far as i am aware as i have not received payment for this logo, i still own the copyright to it?

i do not want the client to be able to use the logo any more, or at least if he does i want to charge him a lot lot more than he was originally quoted.

 

Where do i stand on this and what can i do about it?

would really appreciated any help/advice as this is making me pretty angry.

 

Thanks

 

Ben

£50 for a logo is cheap. You can keep the PSD and tell him where you stand? He can either pay for it as agreed or he can't use it? You can take him to small claims if he decides to use it

What a cheapskate client.. He was getting a cheap job done and now he wants to reduce the price even more. How has he had it from you previously.. as a pdf visuals to approve?

 

If you created the logo in a vector based programme (as all Logo's should really be designed in - to enable ease of scaling without loss of quality) it's possible to open the pdf in Illustrator retaining all paths and colours etc. In this case then if he or the printers have any knowledge of what you can do with pdf's he would not need any of your other files to do what the hell he wanted with the logo.

 

If he only has lo res versions then i would tell him to stick his £25 and take him to small claims if he uses it as the previous poster said.

Or alternatively, write the £50 off as the cost for a cheap but valuable lesson in working with clients, that will save you making the same mistake in future when the contract has an extra zero or two on the end of the price tag.

Seriously, clients can be absolute swines - give them no quarter.

Yeah, in theory you still own copyright to it. Though it may not be worth going through court etc for £50 of damages. If you do feel strongly about going to court... I would recommend looking up small claims/county court information for collecting bad debt.

 

Under CDPA 1988 S90 you would retain all copyright until the license was transferred (through payment to you). You could also argue that the above deal was made with a specific purpose in mind, and you had not offered the license in other forms.

E.g. a website design - unless the full copyright is transferred - cannot be used in poster design or flyers or catalogues etc.

 

The CDPA also goes on to say that if they do infringe the copyright you retain, then the following rememdies can be followed.

 

Remedies for Infringement - Rights and remedies of copyright owner

96 Infringement actionable by copyright owner

 

(1) An infringement of copyright is actionable by the copyright owner.

 

(2) In an action for infringement of copyright all such relief by way of damages, injunctions, accounts or otherwise is available to the plaintiff as is available in respect of the infringement of any other property right.

 

(3) This section has effect subject to the following provisions of this Chapter.

 

So in theory you should be able to either prevent them from using the logo and/or Claim damages to your company through loss of earnings. In theory you could seize all goods with the logo you design on it, though not sure a court would order this?!

Yeh some people that's ridiculous. Super cheap price and he belittles you even more.

 

What a douchebag, boy hrmf hrmf hrmf some people really annoy me.

 

Good luck in getting this back.

 

I do belive you very much have a case but you have to consider if it's worth it.

 

I once had someone steal and entire site.... HTML, CSS, JS etc.. and even somehow it seemed they got the Magento files powering it.

 

I seeked some legal advice and was told this was rock solid, and the intellectual property was 100% my own. These things take time to pursue.

 

Good luck.

It may be worth just sending them an official sounding letter that says that you will take them to a small claims court for the £50, plus should they lose, they will also have to pay the £300 court fees.

 

This has worked for my brother with his company many times.

That is terrible. What a nob.

 

The problem you have is taking the guy to court - it will cost you money upfront.

 

Have you spoken to a solicitor? You may need to find someone specific, but you should get 30 minutes of someone's time for free. Then you can decide whether it's pursuing or not.

Found this, might help?

 

http://www.v7n.com/forums/legal-issues/66516-stolen-logo-design.html

I'm with sunwukung on this one.

 

Personally I would write the money off and consider it a lesson learnt (Has happened to me too! You are not alone!)

 

Alternatively, you could go do his car over (joking!!!)

To be fair As with sunwukung and Helen I would think about writing off the money. And learn the lesson. Get everything in writing, send an email confirming everything that has been said before starting work. And draw up a contract.

 

However, out of principle - as in that other thread mrsminkie found, if you have already asked for the money, no harm in sending a recorded delivery letter threatening to take them to court because of copyright infringement. I think that county court may handle it as you would only be claiming for the money you would have earned.

 

They should make some kind of reply to a letter like that, that they know - you know they have received it.

 

Good luck if you persue it, otherwise learn quick.

The problem is if you let these people slide, then they will continue to screw other designers over in future.

 

Write them a letter explaining that by not paying for the work in full, they are infringing both your moral rights and the copyright in the work. Inform them that you have the right to take them to court, have an injunction put in place and potentially claim damages. Send the letter recorded delivery, wait for them to squirm, check your inbox, and look forward to the full payment

 

 

Things to outline in the letter:

 

As charliesaidthat stated, under the CDPA 1988 you retain all copyright in the work.

 

(1) The author of a work is the first owner of any copyright in it, subject to the following provisions.

(2) Where a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work, or a film , is made by an employee in the course of his employment, his employer is the first owner of any copyright in the work subject to any agreement to the contrary.

As you are not an employee of their company (you are not on their payroll), you are the 'author' of the work, and have not granted them any licence to the work; then under Section 16 they would be infringing copyright in the work if they:

 

• copy the work
  
• issue copies of the work to the public
  
• rent or lend the work to the public
  
• perform, show or play the work in public
  
• communicate the work to the public
  
• make an adaptation of the work or do any of the above in relation to an adaptation
  

So what can you do as the copyright owner?

 

(1) An infringement of copyright is actionable by the copyright owner.

(2) In an action for infringement of copyright all such relief by way of damages, injunctions, accounts or otherwise is available to the plaintiff as is available in respect of the infringement of any other property right.

Injuction - You can get a court order restricting the company from publishing or using the graphic in any way, shape, or form. This injunction can be put in place by the High Court or County Court.

Damages - Any 'benefit' accruing to the company by reason of the infringement, may be awarded to the plaintiff (you). So if you can prove they have profited from the direct use of your graphic, then you may be awarded these profits.

 

You should also be aware that you also retain 'Moral Rights' in the work. These moral rights cannot be transferred like copyright, and if you have not waived them in a contract they will remain in place.

 

The author of an artistic work has the right to be identified whenever -

(a ) the work is published commercially or exhibited in public, or a visual image of it is communicated to the public;

(b ) a film including a visual image of the work is shown in public or copies of such a film are issued to the public; or

(c ) in the case of a work of architecture in the form of a building or a model for a building, a sculpture or a work of artistic craftsmanship, copies of a graphic work representing it, or of a photograph of it, are issued to the public.

As you have not waived your moral rights, then in theory you could state that you wish to be identified on every publication in which the graphic is used, business cards, letterhead, the lot. With this in mind, by publishing the graphic without a license and without identifying the author or having his moral rights waived; the company is not only infringing copyright, but also breaching the statutory duty owed to you.

______________________________________________

 

Offer to waive your moral rights, and transfer an exclusive licence of copyright in the work upon receipt of the full payment.

 

If you don't want them to use the work at all, then send a cease and desist letter.

 

Hope that helps buddy, and next time use a contract

To consider taking this to the small claims court is ridiculous - regardless of the principal, is this worth £25?

 

Move on. Chalk his number, mark it as a loss, and move on.

That is terrible. What a nob.

 

i lol'd

To consider taking this to the small claims court is ridiculous - regardless of the principal, is this worth £25?

 

Move on. Chalk his number, mark it as a loss, and move on.

 

 

Agreed but a letter to that effect can sometimes jump people into action.

thanks so much for the reply guys, i am going to do as jacksaidwhat suggests.

 

i know it is not worth the bother for the sake of £25 but it is more a matter of principle.

 

Like i said, the £50 cash price was as part of a bigger job, as they have not taken that job with us i will be invoicing the at our full logo design service cost.

 

Hopefully a letter would do the trick.

 

DO you think it needs ot be a letter or will an email be ok to start with?

 

Thanks

 

Ben

recorded delivery letter ... + email

Maybe bump up the cost by claiming a usage fee e.g. every time the company uses your logo you charge them a fee

Hi Guys,

 

I sent the client the email and after a "heated debate" over the phone they have agreed to pay the £50 originally quoted. To be honest i would probabaly rather that they were not able to use the logo at all but would rather get it over and done with and move on. At least i can now claim a moral victory, and lessons have been learnt (hopefully all round).

 

thanks so much for your help and input!

 

Ben

Maybe we should all start contributing non paying clients to a online blacklist site. So people just don't abuse the site to smear someone name, the design company can provide proof that it is a legitimate debt - i.e, copy of invoice, contract signed by non paying client. Details of the non payer could also be redacted for a couple of weeks to give them chance to screw up.

 

With some good SEO it could come up 1st when people search that non payers company name.

 

What do you think guys?

Hi Guys,

 

I sent the client the email and after a "heated debate" over the phone they have agreed to pay the £50 originally quoted. To be honest i would probabaly rather that they were not able to use the logo at all but would rather get it over and done with and move on. At least i can now claim a moral victory, and lessons have been learnt (hopefully all round).

 

thanks so much for your help and input!

 

Ben

 

Congrats ben, glad to hear you got it all sorted.

 

Now go buy yourself a beer with that extra £25, you've earned it

He's a bully, plain and simple.

 

You "screwed him" on a price for work he never went ahead with AND even put him in touch with his current supplier. It's a shame things needed to get to this, but as someone previously stated - give them no quarter. Document the lot, even if they ARE mates or you get on well.

 

Glad you got it sorted. It's tough trying to explain to some people that you'll undertake the logo for £25 IF they go ahead on the full order. They like to think they can take advantage regardless.

 

I have been on the other side of this though - when you ask for a quote and then you end up with a bill for the job that they've taken it upon themselves to commence.