Hello!

 

I'm new here so I hope I'm posting this one in the right topic.

 

So let's go to my question. Can you please tell me how would you start learning your web development skills if you went back and became a newbie once again?

 

After hearing for all the rewards Dreamweaver has been getting this past three years I got it, but now since I started working with it I'm comming across information, that it might be better to start with learning the code and only then I should proceed to the Visual web design tools.

 

My first step was borrowing Joseph Lowery's Dreamweaver CS5 Bible, but after reading 500 pages of it (it has about 1300) I think I'm putting too much time into it and that I'm getting to little results. OK I'm more familiar with the basics, but even that is questionable.

 

I hope I will get lots of feedback on how to start and where to find my material to finally start buidling my first web page.

 

Thank you in advance.. and sorry for all of my grammatical mistakes.. hope no one blames me that

 

Love & Peace 4 you & me 2 b

Alex

i still think that dreamweaver would be a good place to start a you can get your results quicly.

but then go to learning the code.

 

but i would recoment just playing with dreamweaver rather than reading the bible, or wathing you tube tuts.

i still think that dreamweaver would be a good place to start a you can get your results quicly.

but then go to learning the code.

 

but i would recoment just playing with dreamweaver rather than reading the bible, or wathing you tube tuts.

 

thank you for your answer! does everyone agree with mr. sgt?

Personally I'd say start out with a standard code editor like notepad++, coda or aptana. That way you aren't tempted to take the easy route of using the design view and learning less. Plus, using the design view gives you less chance of fixing the page if it mucks up and results in a VERY untidy source code (they apparently don't like tabs and whitespace). Finally, try to steer clear of books. They generally over complicate simple things and assume you already know some things. Just go through the courses on either w3schools or tizag. They're much more simple and will take you a fraction of the time you would spend reading through a book.

No mate i think it's fine what you have done. I've been using it almost since day and eventually got comfortable with it. As soon as you learn what's going on under the hood of your web design projects you won't be scared of any code editor. Well maybe VIM, only the mighty tackle things like that.

 

Even with VIM, there are plenty of resources to get you going and the bottom line is if you have the foundations you will be okie.

 

I will say though, for your first book. "dreamweaver bible" is probably not the one you want to be reading.

 

There is a good list of books out there. Without even looking at what's on Chris Coyiers book shelf I can almost guarantee there is something suitable that will catch an entry level coders attention.

 

http://css-tricks.com/bookshelf/

 

Good luck.

I'd like to thank you all for your replies.. they were very helpful.. I guess the best possible suggestions are posted I hope I'm on my way of becoming a good web designer now.. thank you again.

 

<3 & Peace 4 u & me 2 b

I am quite new to this and I started with Dw and got quickly frustrated. I thought that coming from a print background I would just eat up a GUI based application but the inconsistencies produced by using Dw were confusion.

 

I bought a book on web design, creating visuals, wireframes and information architecture which gave me an idea of how to organise building a site. This made things far less daunting as you get to know your content and layout before delving in to code.

 

Then I played around with tutorials, controlling divs making basic layouts with no graphics to get my head around CSS and HTML using a text editor. It is quite an abstract concept at first but coding by hand really simplifies the whole HTML thing, it's really not that difficult once you get going.

 

Then I approached my first project with a different outlook, decide what your going to put in it, design it, scribble all over it (Mark up how you are going to segregate the page in to divs), then code it.

 

The learning curve is quite steep to start with but then when you come over the brow of beginner, the more intermediate stuff is 'a lot' less intimidating.

 

Buy or obtain a good text editor, there are some free ones. They will save you a lot of time and will gear you up for when you jump in to php, sql, JavaScript - or whichever flavour of framework you pick.

 

Ultimately you need to have a solid idea of what your putting in to the site.

 

Garbage in, garbage out!

where do you all learn your code? i started with w3school.com , but just today i read it on this forum that most web pages don't follow their standards... so I was wondering where do you think it's the best to pick up your coding knowledge?

 

thank you again for your help

where do you all learn your code? i started with w3school.com , but just today i read it on this forum that most web pages don't follow their standards... so I was wondering where do you think it's the best to pick up your coding knowledge?

 

thank you again for your help

 

go with w3schools, it's a start. Ignore all the standards snobbery that you may see bantered around and work through their tutorials and examples. Then look at the source for sites, see what they are doing, see if you can relate their code to your knowledge. Start something simple for yourself as well, practice makes perfect.

I just have to say that this Dreamweaver Bible has only one thing that's like the Bible.. it's length. Sux I'm not learning almost anything out of it.. but anyway.. I don't want to leave it since i started reading it.. if not other I'll be abled to say I read a 1500 page book

 

 

♥ & ☮ 4 u & me 2 b ☺

Stick Dreamweaver into designer mode and use split view. Then learn to code using the code editor and watch the results in the design window.

 

Personally i learnt in Notepad but that can be a little daunting if your just starting.

where do you all learn your code? i started with w3school.com , but just today i read it on this forum that most web pages don't follow their standards...

Smaller sites tend to fail through ignorance and/or incompetence, larger sites are alot harder to maintain standards compliance, sometimes it's just not practical or cost effective spending hours trying to riddle out a few errors, so they're left behind.

 

You should always strive for Standards Compliance, In both W3C & WAI. Don't get to hung up if you have a validation error or two, as long as it works, it's not the end of the world.

 

Just my $0.02

one more question.. do I need my testing server set up if I don't know how to make dynamic pages yet anyway?

one more question.. do I need my testing server set up if I don't know how to make dynamic pages yet anyway?

 

Hi,

 

Nope you don't. If its just static HTML pages then no need to.

Uninstall Dreamweaver. I'm not joking.

 

Creating a test environment can be a great idea. For one, it gives you live experience of installing Apache, PHP and MySQL, who are about to become your best friends. It also means you can develop your pages without the pain of uploading things to a server every time you change them, and without the security risk of making unfinished code semi-public. Though you may not be producing dynamic pages yet, you'll be amazed how quickly you will be.

 

On the other hand, if you're just starting out and have access to a PHP-ready host, you may want to leave the dev server until later.

 

Oh, and if I could go back...? I'd have learned jQuery on release day, rather than last month.

so you recommend that I start learning jQuery along with HTML if I understood you right? or what did you mean?

I don't know how well you know html, I would learn each thing thoroughly. Not just bits of everything. So first start with html and css. Then move onto javascript/jquery. And if you want to a programming language eg.php.

Even using the effects in jQuery wont make a bad page good. So start with the fundamentals.

Learning code and learning designing are very different things. I’d suggest getting confidant in html and css before anything else. Until you have realising your design potential is practically impossible, unless you just make images design of what you want a site to look like.

 

As asek says, I’d stay away from jQuery it’ll just make learning html and css harder.

Uninstall Dreamweaver. I'm not joking.

 

Care to elaborate?

I find Dreamweaver to be a functional and easy to use text editor.

 

 

 

I think Brick means using Dreamweaver's design view as a wysiwyg editor. But even as a text editor it is too heavyweight. I prefer using something like bbedit or notepad++

I'm sure it's possible to use Dreamweaver as a perfectly good text editor (albeit the most expensive, bloated text editor on the market), but the danger to a new developer is that they won't. If they want some text to be in Verdana, they might just be tempted to go Format -> Font -> Verdana, and just like that they have markup-embedded inline styling. Not only does this hypothetical developer still have no underlying understanding of why that text is in Verdana, but they don't know they just did it in the worst possible way.

 

Regarding jQuery, I was just saying personally that I wish I'd learnt it a lot earlier. I was one of those people who, if I needed some Javascript ("how do I make this form submit when someone clicks a dropdown?") would go and find something to copy and paste, not much caring about knowing how it worked. I wasted a lot of my own time that way: with libraries like jQuery JS has become (even for the layman) an absolute pleasure to use and a really powerful part of what developers can do with the web. If I had a piece of advice it would be "Don't stop when it's working. Stop when you understand why it's working." Of course, I'm not trying to tell anyone to jump right into JS before getting a good grasp of markup and styling.

I hear you with the over priced and bloated text editor.

 

Although i have tried other advanced text editors i always end up back at Dreamweaver as it's what i know best and already have an established work flow.

 

I would never advise newcomers to fork out for it though.

is there any other text editor that helps you with coding like dreamweaver does with it's hints? cause that's the most helpful thing I find @ Dreamweaver..

My advise:

 

Start with finding your way around Photoshop, y'know just the basics so you can make things pretty.

 

Then spend a week with HTML & CSS messing around with the different properties and rules < Dreamweaver is helpful as it shows you a list of what can be used.

 

Then, this is the point i'm at... I good at photoshop as ive used it from a young age, I know how to make a webpage layout with divs and css and make it look pretty...

 

But im at that point where I dont know what route to take...

 

Javascript and jQuery are what im doing atm but I would also like to learn php eventually but feel I need to get my head around the others first =/

is there any other text editor that helps you with coding like dreamweaver does with it's hints? cause that's the most helpful thing I find @ Dreamweaver..

 

...I prefer using something like bbedit or notepad++

 

I can recommend both of those.

 

 

 

I just downloaded notepad++ but I think it doesn't have any code hints? is there any text editor that has code hints built in it like dreamweaver? if notepad++ does, could you please tell me how to set them up? tnx

 

 

♥ & ☮ 4 u & me 2 b ☺

If you mean auto-complete then head to settings >>> preferences >>> Backup/Auto Complete.

 

On the topic of using Dreamweaver has a text editor... I don't understand why people are hating on it, Yes it is pricey but if you already have a licence then i think it has some valuable tools to increase work flow and productivity.

 

I can dig a hole with my hands but why not use a spade?

I just downloaded notepad++ but I think it doesn't have any code hints? is there any text editor that has code hints built in it like dreamweaver? if notepad++ does, could you please tell me how to set them up? tnx

 

 

♥ & ☮ 4 u & me 2 b ☺

 

In notepad++ you have to save the files as i.e .html and then when you start writing it comes up with the colour scheme for different things

If you mean auto-complete then head to settings >>> preferences >>> Backup/Auto Complete.

 

On the topic of using Dreamweaver has a text editor... I don't understand why people are hating on it, Yes it is pricey but if you already have a licence then i think it has some valuable tools to increase work flow and productivity.

 

I can dig a hole with my hands but why not use a spade?

 

Too many people knock Dreamweaver. It has come along way since the Macromedia days and CS4 is quite capable in code view. I use it and only flip to designer view sometimes when I want to find a specific element in the code by clicking on it or something like that. By the way I also use Notepad++ it's very good. Also, sometimes eclipse or zend.

I can dig a hole with my hands but why not use a spade? <- good example

and you guesed right what I ment.. thank you!

 

but after trying it for a few lines I still see dreamweaver code view the best thing for a beginner as I am.. it really helps a lot.. more as I can configure notepad++ to help me. and after all I guess when you're a beginner you don't want to loose that much time configuring stuff.. dreamweaver is nice set up from the start so it's easy to use.. bless you adobe

How many of you can fire up your development environment in two keystrokes?

 

v

i

 

There is a good quality list of books out there. Without even look at what's on Chris Coyiers book shelf I can approximately promise there is something suitable that will catch an entry level coders attention.

Personally I'd say start out with a standard code editor like notepad++, coda or aptana. That way you aren't tempted to take the easy route of using the design view and learning less. Plus, using the design view gives you less chance of fixing the page if it mucks up and results in a VERY untidy source code (they apparently don't like tabs and whitespace). Finally, try to steer clear of books. They generally over complicate simple things and assume you already know some things. Just go through the courses on either w3schools or tizag. They're much more simple and will take you a fraction of the time you would spend reading through a book.

 

 

Jordan,

Totally agree with you. I've actually started with W3CSchools myself and in a day or so I completed the HTML tutorial and done the certification online. They were a great starting point. I am moving towards Javascript and PHP next. So really looking forward to the training!

How many of you can fire up your development environment in two keystrokes?

 

v

i

 

 

 

Do you mean two shortcut keystrokes?

That would start 2 applications! Fireworks and Dreamweaver.

Do you mean two shortcut keystrokes?

That would start 2 applications! Fireworks and Dreamweaver.

 

I think he means the linux editor VI but I could be wrong

Personally I'd say start out with a standard code editor like notepad++, coda or aptana.

 

Aptana is awesome, I used it for awhile on SUSE Linux and it is really cool once you get used to it.

emm... I have a new question now I've heard of a few ways to start and I have started.. many people say that they learn the most while they are working on their sites.. so do you think I should start with learning code languages part by part or should I imagine how the site should look like and then look for answers on how to make it part by part?

 

for example I just made a navigation bar using CSS, but then it came to my mind that I actually don't want to have just a navigation bar but want to have drop-down <- drop-right actually navigation bars.. but I think (from what i have found on google untill now) i'd have to start learning javascript to do that (is that the right language i have written? ) ... so do you suggest I first make a whole page in HTML and CSS and then go a step further or should I start looking for how to make my navbar appear as i want it?

 

I hope my question is not too confused

IMO, get to grips with really understanding the basics first, i.e html and css.

A sound, in-depth knowledge of these will help you massively when you start to learn scripting languages like javascript and php.

Learning piecemeal, although getting the job done as it were, will never really teach you the basic understanding of a language.

For example, you've mentioned a navigation bar/drop-down. Depending on exactly what you are trying to achieve, css should be more than capable of doing what you require (javascript dependent navigation is a big no no imo)

Have a look on cssplay for some great examples of css menus.

As I say, get right on top of html/css first then introduce behavior with javascript if required.

 

Good luck

tnx... one more question.. I can see a lot of work in web design includes different graphic programs? do you think that's a thing to learn for later on, or at the pure start of learning?

 

 

and tnx again.. last post was really helpfull