People expect things done for free??

 

I'm am actually dumbfounded that people expect web designers and developers to do so much for free.

 

I never understood the arguement that it is good for your portfolio either i.e. you are getting an ace website but the designer is the person being rewarded because so two bit nobody chose you to design their site.

 

Like I have no problem offering clients a competitive rate but just recently someone contacted me re a small site, I quoted €250 including hosting and there response was

 

i am finding another one who want's get good result in his exams... Giving him my idea to his project and he will make me for free. Nothing to pay.

 

Now I had to laugh at that, like hell am I going to even bother with that, I did tell him that over here (Ireland) that if a business uses a university/college, then the institution own the copyright of the design and process. Low and behold I see now a month or so on he is asking other designers to do the work for free.

 

/Rant

I know exactly what you mean. There is a post in the "looking to hire" topic of this forum. It's basically asking for a complete design, start to finish, and the website to be coded. For a budget of £250. If you go to a proper design agency and ask for company branding and a complete website for £250 there going to laugh you out the door.

 

To make it worse it was a moderator of this website that posted the proposal.

What I dont get is why people think that they can get away with it. Like I often compare it to building an actual physical shop, the number of different things involved i.e shop name, premises, appearance, maintenance, storage of products, checkout of goods etc.

 

It actually amazes me to the ignorance of some people

All web designers do is click a couple o' buttons...

 

Google must have expensive button pushers...

Posts asking for freebies should be treated as SPAM ... they are an insult.

 

Those offering to work for free should be considered with caution. If they need to advertise their services for free here then it doesn't say much for their local marketing ability.

Those offering to work for free should be considered with caution. If they need to advertise their services for free here then it doesn't say much for their local marketing ability.

 

I have to disagree with you here, if someone is offering to do something for free then that is their prerogative, I know I would much rather make a hash of something for a person a few countries over than in my locality. Also I have ran promotions for free but have done that as part of an upselling marketing plan, hosting, logo design n all that.

 

To keep on topic this rant is that people expecting web professionals to work for free.

 

Like in my example above just because you can get someone to do it for free doesnt mean I should do it for free, and you obviously think I'm better of else you would not have tried bargaining, so just pay the (competitive) rate ffs

 

/rant

All web designers do is click a couple o' buttons...

I know only the 'Enter' button... tell me mate which is the second one?

I know only the 'Enter' button... tell me mate which is the second one?

 

 

Its the "magically create a website" button, after you have pressed the enter it on the next page, you press it and it writes the content, designs the site and codes it all in 1 minute 22 seconds.

 

 

I wrote a ranty type blog about this last month, so my opinions are there if you care to read them as after that I was all ranted out on the subject...its nice to vent

Posts asking for freebies should be treated as SPAM ... they are an insult.

 

Those offering to work for free should be considered with caution. If they need to advertise their services for free here then it doesn't say much for their local marketing ability.

Wow there's a lot of vitriol flying around this thread! I've done work for free on two occasions: once because I was new to web design and I needed the experience, and once because I felt sorry for someone who was ripped off.

 

I don't work for free the rest of the time, but I'm not insulted by requests for work for free. Nor do I think they should be treated as spam. I think there should be a separate forum for unpaid work though so that it's recognised as not of interest to those seeking paid work.

 

If it offends you, then don't read the LTH forums. There's far worse things in life to get uptight about. Maybe go for a walk or something?

Id just like to point out again by main point.

 

I DO NOT have a problem with working for free/reduced rate, I DO NOT have an issue with clients negotiating prices, what I have an issue with is clients who use the argument that they can get it done for free by XYZ and I should be able to do it for free too just because... Now you very well may be able to get it done for free (and an awesome design too) but you obviously like my style/portfolio, I have quoted a competitive price, now either decline or accept but DO NOT and entice me to do anything for you on the facede that I am the person being rewarded

I wouldn't get wound up by it, simply tell them that you wish them luck with XYZ as there is no way you can compete with that price. 9 times out of 10* you won't hear from them again and 1 time out of 10* the client will come back within a week and ask you to do the site for the price you gave as they were just trying to get you to go lower.

 

 

*stats are dizi stats and shouldn't be taken as fact

I amn't being wound up in relation to it.

 

I told them exactly at the time that they wouldnt be the owners of the A)Design B)Business Processes C)IP as in Ireland the university through some law has that copyright.

 

Low and behold a month or so on, they are now looking for it to be designed (for free again - will they ever learn)

Good article, Dizi, thanks!

I love it when ya half way through a project and the client says, 'I've seen this thing on another site can you do the same it wont take ya long.' F**k off it's gonna take a redesign to fit it in, ya gonna need a database or some big javascript coding.

 

I'm currently working on an ecommerce site and the client has said he's not seen much progress. Well I program everything bespoke and he wants an admin that will allow multiple web sites to be set up and link to the central admin and database. He's not seen the 50+ stored procedures, doozens of tables. the flowcharts to work it all out from!! And to top it all he's cont given me a single product to add yet!

 

This little story will take the buscuit. An ecommerce site I developed won the best ecommerce site in Wales in 2008 (honest). It was a big black tie award ceremony celebrating best business in Wales. The event was in Bangor, Sain Lloyd was presenting the award. The client told me about it two days AFTER the gig!!!

 

Suffice it to say I no longer have a relationship with the tw*t!

 

Clients what something for nothing. We should be working towards doing nothing for something

Ah, the irony.

"People wanting free/ cheap web design is very bad".

"But it's OK to offer free/ cheap web design... I have".

Wizely you seem to have misinterpreted my posts in this thread. I never said work for free is bad actually I said that it is each persons right to offer what they want.

 

My point was this guy thought because one person offered to do it fot free does not everybody should do it for free.

I didn't misinterpret a thing! I didn't say you said working for free was bad, just people expecting work for free.

 

You're dumbfounded that people expect to get a lot of free work. I just pointed out the irony.

 

When you did free work maybe there was a designer thinking "How come people expect designers to do so much free work?" when he/ she got an email saying "Actually I've found someone to do it for free"?

It is ironic.

 

I didn't mean it as a dig at you, it's just when there are plenty of 'designers' out there willing to devalue their own industry then it's not just a case of "those silly clients". I see the trolls that lurk around the looking to hire thread (which I wish didn't exist) throwing themselves at every job for peanuts.

 

Folks usually like to bring in a plumber metaphor about now to describe how people wouldn't expect one to come out and fix your plumbing for free. But then I'm pretty sure if you put an ad out for "Plumber needed, no money, just kudos and practice" you wouldn't get a stampede of plumbers responding. I don't expect a plumber for free (in fact I expect and know they're expensive) because they just don't do it. In web design they do.

 

That was all.

Again, a whole free work/spec work/etc/etc is not actually my point.

 

I'm not explaining this well cos I'm posting from phone so am leaving out prob vital bits of detail.

 

It's more of a when will people learn, this guy has gone one route and failed and is trying to persist with it to the detriment of his business

 

An aside, when it was mentioned above re tradesmen,I know that its a good comparison to make i.e. you would expect a qualified tradesman to do owt for free, but the truth be told many of us for example would have no problem turning out hand to doing an odd bit of what we perceive to be easy work (fixing pipes, bit of chippy work, wiring plugs etc) so I dont think we differ from an other industry (and neither should we).

 

Im not explaining this well so can understand where confusions lays

I don't expect a plumber for free (in fact I expect and know they're expensive) because they just don't do it. In web design they do.

Our esteemed Wisely is goddamn right. I could not say better. (+1 to karma)

I agree with Wizely, this industry is to blame for peoples preconceptions about this industry.

 

But moving onto nellyshark point above:

 

It's more of a when will people learn, this guy has gone one route and failed and is trying to persist with it to the detriment of his business

 

You could even look at it another way, there are a load of people out there charging money for their services as web designers, and they don't have a clue, some will try and build a site, others will just take the clients money and run...are these people supposed to learn not to trust any web designer because they went that route once before and failed?

 

The only difference between the two is the loss of money on the clients side.

 

 

I do think I understand what you are going on about, you're upset and felt like ranting that this guy who you quoted €250 to do his site went with someone who said they would do it for free, that hasn't worked out for him and instead of coming to you to get the site done by you for €250 he is trying again to get someone to do it for nothing. If I'm wrong and that isn't what the rant is about then sorry for the misunderstanding

Dizi, you have half hit the nail on the head, Im actually not concerned with the project at all but he has been (not just me but mainly through my peers) been given good advise which he seemingly is willing to ignore to save a buck to the detriment of his business.

 

This thread really isnt a rant more like a some mothers do have them type of discussion, I wish I could explain all aspects of this but all I can say is..some people

 

 

Coming to think of it there should be a hows your day been type thread where people can post anecdotes of what happened to them during that day

So what to do? To demand from government to adopt a law against these guys who are ready to design for free? To hunt after them with BFG?

So what to do? To demand from government to adopt a law against these guys who are ready to design for free? To hunt after them with BFG?

 

??????????

 

Sure this has nothing to do with others designers, I don't get all the animosity towards other competitors, it happens in every industry and price is a big factor to almost everybody. My point is in relation to a specific person and how they never will learn already having been burned

Dizi, you have half hit the nail on the head, Im actually not concerned with the project at all but he has been (not just me but mainly through my peers) been given good advise which he seemingly is willing to ignore to save a buck to the detriment of his business.

 

 

Some people are just like that and will always think they know best (like me ) you tried so have others and if he isn't willing to listen to advice and it doesn' have an impact on you then take a deep breath, ignore them and have a nice drink in the sun (while it is with us)

 

 

The thread idea is a good one though, maybe you should start it, I have a great little story to tell from today

Ah... that's got it then!

But I still think that because the guy can get freebies it's definitely a major contributing factor to why he can't see the value in it. It's a mistake a lot of small business' make (big ones too) - seeing something as a cost rather than an investment that will go on to generate more profit.

Some folks just won't figure that out and do it again and again. You've tried to advise the right course... you can't save everyone!

 

Ooh, an anecdote thread would be good... as long as it doesn't turn into a "Designers are God-like and all clients are stoopid" thread!

I think that everyone who says that they should offer any of their work for free, or under-valued is wrong. The whole of life is on a barter system, and what you put into something is what you should get out. The reason why we have to do free stuff is because someone somewhere started the whole thing, and now, the exact person that you do a free website for was the person who did something for free for someone else and now can't afford to pay for his own website ...

 

and all of this means that if you do something for free, or even under it's value of worth, then you are gonna be the next one that needs something for free from someone else! And the cycle will never end!

 

Everyone who does any kind of work should get paid what it is worth; and if someone can't afford to pay it, then that is because they should probably not have it in the first place!

Whether or no, but these guys, boys and fellas never complain about the fact that someone does web design for peanuts or for free. They just work.

So there is nothing else left to do but to wish a happy voyage to this lover of free web design and trabajar, trabajar, trabajar...

I like the BFG idea!