Note: To the mods: If this post is in breach of the forum rules (I don’t think it is) then I apologise.

 

Firstly, the goal/point of this post is to spark a discussion (hopefully a mature one) and help anyone with little or no knowledge of cannabis understand it a little better. I am not promoting illegal activities and I would not suggest anyone go and try cannabis while it is illegal. Discussing cannabis and its effects is not against the law.

 

As most of you will have noticed by now via my signature, I am a cannabis legalisation supporter. My views on cannabis are somewhat controversial to some and make perfect sense to others. One of the inherent problems with cannabis is the fact that it is seemingly near impossible to have a reasonable debate about it, like many illegal activities.

 

Something that perpetuates this problem is the fact that most of the legitimate information about cannabis is ignored, hidden and denied by our government. That means unless you have done your own research you will most likely only know what the government and media have told you about the plant and if that information was true, I would be totally against it too.

 

Now, I don’t want you to think I am some anti-establishment nutter or conspiracy theorist, I completely accept that any reform in the law will require me to accept and embrace both the law enforcers and the government regulation and restriction. To be perfectly honest regulation and restriction is one of the best cases for cannabis legalisation to begin with but I will go into this more further down.

 

There are perfectly understandable reasons why the government will not accept research that shows the positive effects of cannabis and the facts that cannabis is no where near as harmful, in any way, as legally available products in the UK include alcohol, tobacco, coffee, asprin and even fast-food. I am not saying the reasons are right or moral, in fact they are quite the opposite but they are understandable.

 

In summary, some of the reasons why it is beneficial for the government to continue cannabis prohibition are:

There are plenty of politicians with financial interests in trades that cannabis would have a direct impact on should it be legalised, some of these industries include drug re-habilitation, alcohol production, prisons, logging (paper), oil and fuel, pharmaceuticals, plastics and building materials/construction and many many more.

 

Now you might be confused by that list and that is perfectly understandable which is why I am now going to explain something about cannabis’s sister plant, hemp.

Hemp, or industrial hemp as it is better known, is one of the world’s most versatile materials. It can be used to create paper, bio fuel, rope, plastics, ‘hemp’crete (a way of making concrete using lime and hemp rather than traditional cement) the list is literally thousands of things long.

 

Now I am not going to go into massive details about hemp because this post is going to be long enough as it is but in essence, hemp is one of the 3 main variations of the cannabis plant. While the first two types are used for consumption (cannabis sativa and cannabis indica), the hemp plant is not capable of getting you “high” and provides very few of the effects or benefits that herbal cannabis does however it is still ruled under the same laws as cannabis. You require a licence to “produce a controlled drug” to grow hemp despite the fact it cannot be used as a drug which makes it un-profitable and very difficult to start producing, that is assuming you get granted the licence in the first place. This prevents hemp from being used on a wide scale for the things mentioned above and allows the oil, paper and fuel companies to avoid a superior competitor.

 

My last point on hemp is this, hemp is carbon neutral. No matter what you make with hemp because of the way and amounts it can be grown in, it offsets the environmental damage done by producing products from it be it clothing, paper, fuel or even food. Imagine if we could stop de-forestation for paper and wood (the biggest cause of climate change) by growing fields of hemp or even help offset some of the damage done.

 

I am sure you are all aware of cannabis being used as a medication in places like the United States and the Netherlands. Some of you may understand and even accept the medical benefits of cannabis and there will probably be those who disagree and believe medical cannabis is a myth, lie or whatever. It was not until fairly recently that the reasons were discovered as to why and how cannabis can have such a positive impact on such a wide range of ailments. One of the inherent problems with the argument for medical cannabis is the fact that it is so hard to believe that one plant can do so many things so well. Much like hemp being great at thousands of things from fuel to plastics cannabis can relieve the symptoms of thousands of illnesses and could even prevent/cure some including cancer (yes really).

 

Cannabis is made up of over 400 chemicals; the two big ones are THC which most people will have heard of and CBD. THC (delta 9 tetra-hydro-cannabinol) is a psyco-active chemical that can enhance and induce psychotic behaviour and it is highly likely that it will make mental conditions such as psychosis and schizophrenia worse with someone who already suffers (or is genetically pre-disposed i.e. is going to get it but is waiting on a trigger). THC produces the high you get when you smoke cannabis.

CBD is an anti-psychotic chemical that helps to neutralise the psychotic elements of THC. CBD is also where allot of the medical potential comes from and produces the “monging” part of being stoned.

 

High THC cannabis (15% +) are known as Skunk strains (skunk is a word often misused by the media) and are generally hybrids of sativa and indiaca or just pure sativa strains. High CBD cannabis is generally has a more mellow effect as you would expect from the information above, these strains tend to be indicas.

 

Cannabis has thousands of strains and each one can have a slightly different effect, taste and smell. Some people even go as far as to cherry pick the strain they use depending on mood, desire and medical condition. Skunk (often called skunk cannabis, super skunk etc) is just one of these strains and has been around for a very long time.

 

The other chemicals in cannabis are collectively known as cannabinoids. Now these chemicals including THC and CBD all work for something in your brain called the endo-cannabinoid system. This system has links to hundreds of places within your body including respiratory, cardiac etc which is why cannabis can have such a wide spread effect. Cannabis is the only source of these chemicals and they are something that the body wants and in some cases, needs.

 

Pain relief is probably one of the most well know uses of cannabis as a medicine but it is only the tip of a very large iceberg. Cannabis can have a positive effect on anyone suffering from illnesses that affect movement, spasm, pain, sight, irritation, inflammation etc etc etc etc and with regards to the comment above about cancer, in scientific experiments in the united states (and now several domestic experiments) THC oil was used to directly treat cancerous tumors and the result of these studies was a reduction of around 80% of the size of the tumor. There are multiple people who have claimed that cannabis cured there cancer either on its own or in conjunction with standard treatments. Either way it is pretty obvious now that cannabis really does have genuine medical value.

 

The UK government’s official stance is that cannabis has no medical value. However if you live in a country (in the EU) that legally prescribes medical cannabis then you can bring up to 3 months supply with you legally without any challenge.

 

If that wasn’t enough to raise an eyebrow then this should, during Labors time in office they granted a licence to GW Pharmaceuticals to grow and process thousands of cannabis plants in the UK for a product called Sativex. Sativex is made my “grinding” the cannabis up and processing it through a mixture of ethanol and liquid co2, this extracts all of the chemicals and allows them to filter out all of the plant matter. Once this is done they then add some peppermint flavouring and pack it into small vials for spraying into your mouth. Bare in mind that there are no additional chemicals added to this, it is just cannabis and not even an altered or genetically modified version.

 

GW’s Sativex is perfectly legal and can be prescribed by any GP in the country however at this time it is only prescribed for people suffering with MS. The problem is the cost, at £300 a vial (about a months use) the NHS understandably are reluctant to cover the costs and depending on where you live it is not possible to obtain it without paying the full £300 per vial. The cannabis content of a vial of Sativex is less than an 1/8th of an ounce. On the street that will set you back between £20 and £30 or if grown at home it will cost next to nothing.

 

The States have similar products and GW now have several countries who purchase Sativex for there citizens. Not only does our government allow the production of herbal cannabis but it is happy for us to export it to other countries. They also allow people into the country with their herbal cannabis, so long as British citizens are not touching it or they are paying £300 a bottle for it. Please tell me I am not the only one here who can see the hypocrisy in this.

 

There are thousands of people in the UK who use cannabis illegally for its medical benefits, some of them grow it themselves and others are forced to by it off of street dealers. Not only are we criminalising people seeking medical help and pain relief but we are making them go into potentially dangerous situations and fund the crime that allot of drug money goes to.

 

Cannabis that you buy off of the street has always been very unpredictable for both quality and value however something quite alarming that is on the rise are people contaminating bags of cannabis to increase weight and make it look more attractive. This can be anything from metal shavings to add weight to powdered glass to make it look nice and powdery, obviously smoking glass or metal is not going to do anyone any good. This is where regulation comes into the mix and also where we can start looking to protect our children and those who are vulnerable.

 

If a young person or child wants cannabis, their ID is a £20 note. Got the cash? You can have the product. Obviously there are people out there who wouldn’t sell to a child but I am confident there are plenty who would much like the people who are willing to go into a shop and buy alcohol and cigarettes for children but it is allot harder for kids to get hold of legally regulated drugs than the illegal ones sold on the street.

 

I am going to try and wrap up, if you have made it this far then, honestly, thank you.

 

Cannabis is proven to be more than 3000x safer than alcohol and even safer than tobacco. A study of tobacco smokers, cannabis and tobacco smokers and non smokers found that cannabis smokers did not develop significant cases of cancer during the follow-up report, similar in numbers to the non smokers which discredits the myth that cannabis causes cancer like tobacco. You can even go as far to say that cannabis does have some protective quality’s from the harmful effects of tobacco.

It has been said by the ACMD (the governments advisors on the misuse of drugs) that cannabis is one of the safest recreational drugs which is reflected in the previous reports by them, unfortunately the government do not have to accept there finding and the last person to directly confront the government on this was asked to resign, when he refused he was sacked (Google “Prof David Nutt”).

 

The reason why it is seen as safe, once you understand why people thought it caused mental illness etc, is because it is impossible to overdose on cannabis. Its toxicity rating is something stupid like 40,000:1 meaning you would have to smoke something in the region of 15,000 ounces in 15 minutes to consume a lethal dose.

I would like to leave you with this question:

 

“If cannabis is really that harmful and the government knows this to be true, why do they not show us the evidence and why do they allow it to be grown for use in Sativex?”

 

I am going to end here but I am more than happy to answer any questions you have, just reply. There are loads of things I have not covered like the organised crime, the £6 billion cannabis is worth to the UK economy and the billions of pounds we spend prohibiting cannabis even though its usage is still growing at an increasing rate.

 

All I ask is that you read this fully first before posting a question or critism. Be respectful and you will get a respectful answer. You are welcome to post your opinion be it for or against cannabis prohibition but please quote your sources.

 

Please do not reply without fully reading this post. I can provide reference and source for all of this information. All information is also backed up and sourced on the CLEAR website which also has a medical users leaflet that features my partner “Rhiannon Jones”.

 

More info can be found all over the internet and on the CLEAR webpage (http://www.clear-uk.org).

Interesting documentaries on cannabis and the law/history:

 

Search YouTube for “When We Grow” – A full length documentary focusing on the UK and interviews Sarah Martin, a UK citizen with MS who uses and grows cannabis to treat her illness.

 

Search YouTube for “The Union – The business behind getting high” – A similar video but focusing on the USA and Canada (longer but very good).

 

 

- My English is far from perfect, I do have a habbit of repeating myself myself () at times and my grammar sucks.

If a young person or child wants cannabis, their ID is a £20 note. Got the cash? You can have the product.

confirming this is true as 'lil josh' on my estate aged 11 smokes that green stuff your talking about all the time

 

or if grown at home it will cost next to nothing.

if your growing it outside its gunna be kak and it does cost a fair bit to grow indoors so thats not really true now is it... tents/lights (and running of lights) /feed/dripping systems/carbon filters/fans&ducting/seeds etc...

 

The reason why it is seen as safe, once you understand why people thought it caused mental illness etc, is because it is impossible to overdose on cannabis. Its toxicity rating is something stupid like 40,000:1 meaning you would have to smoke something in the region of 15,000 ounces in 15 minutes to consume a lethal dose.

It messes people, ive seen it badly effect aload of people (all types of ages). it might not kill u, but it sure dont do nothing good to your health in the long run mate.

 

just adding to this disccusion(well that bit cus it angerd me ) my views, cus my view is its not safe! far from it!

 

however the good things of it are it helps my mates sisters pain with MS alot, and that spray your talking about should be more widely avaible to MS suffers, or any other illness it can help out. (not like how other people in the eu abuse this, i mean like actuall illnes's that it can help soothe pain)

 

and theres also the other non medical plus sides such as the laughs that come with it when 'stoned' and making food more enjoyable

 

but then theres the dark down sides to go with it, such as your bank account hating you, and your body hating you for slowly destorying(might be to strong that word but you get my drift) it, being arrested because thats never fun..

 

right, i better get back to work now..

 

=============================================

 

and then i thought i would agree with lewie as it is one of the safer drugs and if made illegal, think about the amount of money our goverment could make taxin it.. and the jobs being made for people to work in the factorys to grow it. this would do wonders for econimy.

 

woulden like to think what would happen the school/college/uni grades though lool

*and i dont think the british would enjoy the unwated toursiem coming to london for the smoke up if it was legal

Edited August 5, 201115 yr by kingy da killa

I don't have a problem with this been made legal myself i see it as one of if not the safest drugs out there, if there is such a thing.

 

But knowing many people who smoke the stuff, it might not have illness related effects to that person, but i have seen people messed up by the drug, a designer I was working with started to smoke it more often and the quality of his/her work degraded due to the smoking it. So maybe it does have some mental effects but that's just my opinion from what i have witnessed.

 

Lewi

Everyone in my town that smokes that crap are wasters, on the dole or push trolleys in tesco.

Everyone in my town that smokes that crap are wasters, on the dole or push trolleys in tesco.

thats pretty true!

Thanks for the reply.

 

if your growing it outside its gunna be kak and it does cost a fair bit to grow indoors so thats not really true now is it... tents/lights (and running of lights) /feed/dripping systems/carbon filters/fans&ducting/seeds etc..

 

Cannabis grows natuarally outside and almost all of the cannabis that comes over from Morroco, Columbia etc is grown outside. England isnt the ideal place to grow it outside but it is still a perfectly good smoke.

 

The cost of growing indoors for personal use is nothing when you concider how long you can spread the costs. I dont know how much you know about the growing process and methods. Seeds are expensive because they produce somthing very expensive however you do not need new seeds everytime you pot a new plant. You can take cuttings or clones as there are known sometimes, you can keep a "mother plant" for this. You can also grow a male cannabis plant a harvest thousands of seeds off it.

 

With regards to lights, if you are growing for personal use then you will not need many lights, after a certain ammount it is just a waste. If you are using somthing crazy like a 1000w Sodium bulb then you are going to run up a massive electric bill however this is not necessary. CFL's or compact florescent bulbs are energy saving and work just as well. They cost pennys a month to run and used in conjunction with other CFL's can put out more light that your plants need.

 

With regards to the costs of Hydroponic equipment, while I do not agree with non-organic growing methods (anything other than soil and water), hydroponic equipment will last you more than a single frow which means that cost also needs to be distributed acorss along period of time, similar to counting the cost of buying a new outfit for one night out on the town without considering that you will actually be able to use those clothes for years to come.

 

When you consider that a personal grow of say 15 plants (10 cuttngs, seedlings , unrooted clones etc) (5 vegging or blooming) that take 3 to 5 months to fully mature will produce upto 10 ounces. A standard set of grow equipment including a tent, lights, ducting, filters etc will cost you between 400 and 1000 and last 2 years for arguments sake that is atleast 50 ouces of cannabis for £1000 (£20 an ounce). The guidelines we are working on for the government suggest a £1 per gram tax which makes that about £48 an ounce, I dont think anyone with any experience of cannabis would argue at £50 an ounce.

 

It messes people, ive seen it badly effect aload of people (all types of ages). it might not kill u, but it sure dont do nothing good to your health in the long run mate.

 

Ive seen this argument plenty of times and what gets to me is what people (like a colleague) use it as a "Go to and get out" excuse. "I know plenty of people who are messed up from smoking dope, i dont care what you say" but generally these people actually have a much deeper past, for one you dont know the quantity or quality of the cannabis they used, for example poorly grown cannabis that has had too many neutrients added, not flushed properly (watered allot before cutting down to flush the added chemicals in neutrients etc) or just cut down too early (CBD is the last thing produced by cannabis plants, if you cut it down early it is imature and has not developed all of the anti-phycotic chemical).

 

I know one person who is deeply affected by smoking cannabis, he used it for years (50 ish) however what I didnt know until recently is that he actually also used cocaine heavyly in the 70's and has been abusing cannabis (smoking far too much) for a long time. Bare in mind that cannabis is not addicitive, it is habbitual but it has no withdrawal like caffine and nicotine.

 

I fully accept that if you are going abuse cannabis then you may very well damage yourself over a period of time but what about it being iligal prevents that? I am very overweight through my own fault, i ate too much and didnt exercise when I was growing up and now I have to pay for it but does that mean everyone who eats rubbish food or lives an unhealthy lifestyle should be made into criminals? You can abuse anything but that dosnt mean that everyone else should be penalised for it.

 

If you abuse alcohol you will end up with a bad liver and probally kill yourself yet we are allowed to make that choice ourselves. Just because some people choose to abuse it we cant assume everyone is going to abuse it and thus outlaw it.

Everyone in my town that smokes that crap are wasters, on the dole or push trolleys in tesco.

 

Thank you for that well thought out and creative reply

Its the truth.

This discussion comes around this forum more times than "How to centre my site"! lol.

 

My personal take on it is, i've seen many many of my good friends, who have been long time stoners, lose the plot on weed. Just like anything (and mean anything) the human body can only deal with a certain amount of abuse and the human mind even less. I've seen more of my friends carted off to the local nut house, after years of weed abuse, than for anything else including Alcohol.

 

Now i'm not saying don't do it, at the end of the day that is your choice and if you feel you're mentally able to cope then by all means feel free but don't come crying to the world if your mind snaps.

Thank you for that well thought out and creative reply

 

Maybe it wasn't as long as your initial post but if the man states what he believes to be the truth then his reply carries as much weight.

and ironically not at all creative with that truth.

I don't have a problem with this been made legal myself i see it as one of if not the safest drugs out there, if there is such a thing.

 

Well it is now scientifically proven so rest assured your opinion is perfectly valid. Cannabis is not only safer and better for you than allot of legal substances but it also has less affect on your mentality than most other drugs (cocaine for exaple) and alcohol.

 

When the figures were talked about trying to link cannabis to mental health they stated that somthing like 80% of people with mental illnesses has used cannabis atleast once in their lifetime however what they ignored was the fact that somthing like 90% had smoked cigerettes in their life and somthing like 97% had used alcohol. Both of which are phyco-active.

 

I don't have a problem with this been made legal myself i see it as one of if not the safest drugs out there, if there is such a thing.

 

But knowing many people who smoke the stuff, it might not have illness related effects to that person, but i have seen people messed up by the drug, a designer I was working with started to smoke it more often and the quality of his/her work degraded due to the smoking it. So maybe it does have some mental effects but that's just my opinion from what i have witnessed.

 

Lewi

 

The problem here again is the fact that we dont know the full story. For one, as I said in a post a min ago, the iligality removes any possibility of regulation. Un regulated anything is a recipie for disaster. Would you drink un-regulated alcohol?

 

There are people who have lived long lives addicited to heroin becauase they could afford decent quality heroin. The "junkies" that kill themselves and die young are the ones buying off of opportunists who are simply trying to make a quick buck and dont care how diluted the gear is proving it is profitable.

Mark Twain was always quite inciteful.

its an ok smoke, but its not really if u get my drift.

 

ok first you said next to nothing, and now its up to a grand! lol

and all the failed attempts of getting decent enough product is gunna add up!

 

ok a mother plant will save you buying seeds but if your growing your gunna be an euthisast and

are gunna try crop all types of flavours? mother plants are more for commerical growing !

 

also are u mentall!! its mad addictive !!!

 

but i agree with u its just like alchoal,fags... do it too much its gunna hurt u. if u can controll it and only every so often, fair play to ya.

 

i no cannabis is used as a scapegoat to blame people for being wasters etc.

 

but its what jock said 90% of the time they are usually the people who do it

and ironically not at all creative with that truth.

 

Not sure what you are trying to say.

Would you drink un-regulated alcohol?

 

 

BUSTED

 

The fact remains that the only people that care about weed and go on and on about it are those who use it regularly. These same people are a major reason why the drug is not more widely used for medical purposes.

 

Stoners... shut up and get on with whatever you want, none of us care so stop trying to justify it. This is a web design forum...

its an ok smoke, but its not really if u get my drift.

 

ok first you said next to nothing, and now its up to a grand! lol

and all the failed attempts of getting decent enough product is gunna add up!

 

ok a mother plant will save you buying seeds but if your growing your gunna be an euthisast and

are gunna try crop all types of flavours? mother plants are more for commerical growing !

 

also are u mentall!! its mad addictive !!!

 

but i agree with u its just like alchoal,fags... do it too much its gunna hurt u. if u can controll it and only every so often, fair play to ya.

 

i no cannabis is used as a scapegoat to blame people for being wasters etc.

 

but its what jock said 90% of the time they are usually the people who do it

 

 

-ok first you said next to nothing, and now its up to a grand! lol

 

The equipment costs, of course it does but the cannabis it produces costs next to nothing. You have misread two different quotes.

 

 

-also are u mentall!! its mad addictive !!!

lol im not arguing but it is not addictive, it has no physically addictive propertys. If you have an addictive personality then thats different and to be fair allot of what your saying here is different to what you said in PM's so im a little confused. i.e. when we spoke about not having any major withdrawal.

 

 

- but i agree with u its just like alchoal,fags... do it too much its gunna hurt u. if u can controll it and only every so often, fair play to ya.

- i no cannabis is used as a scapegoat to blame people for being wasters etc.

- but its what jock said 90% of the time they are usually the people who do it

To be fair even though I dont like generalising a whole community of people, this is kinda bordering on my point. If people want to abuse it and damage themselves then they are going to do it but those of us who can control ourselves should be left to it.

 

Also, how many of those "wasters" are also drinkers, snorting coke, taking pills, smoking cigerettes etc etc etc

I refuse to believe cannabis is the only common thing between all of them and I would also wonder if anyone has ever met a waster who isnt smoking cannabis, I know that ive met plenty.

and ironically not at all creative with that truth.

 

 

Rofl....

BUSTED

 

The fact remains that the only people that care about weed and go on and on about it are those who use it regularly. These same people are a major reason why the drug is not more widely used for medical purposes.

 

Stoners... shut up and get on with whatever you want, none of us care so stop trying to justify it. This is a web design forum...

 

I thought the general discussion forum was for everything non-webdesign related ?

The sad truth about this topic is most people dont have the real facts, this and every other natural product has many benefits to humans, dont forget if you are on deaths door in hospital, what would you be given? morphine which is a derivative from Opium, opiates, Psilocybin and THC all have amazing benefits to the human body and mind, as MikeChipShop stated "dont abuse anything, or it will abuse you!"

 

The Human Populous has been lied to for centuries to control not just us, but financial markets, even the way we evolve, let alone a disease free society.

 

I realize that the topic varies from each person, but the HUGE evidence that is pro all natural and some chemical drugs is outstanding.

 

@Jock as Bill Hicks would say, dont allow your downbeat mates to give Marijuana a bad name, just because they dont know how to harness the qualities.

 

Also regarding Psychosis this has now been proven that Marijuana does not cause Psychosis, it merely draws out serious problems generally which occured in either the womb or very youthful years, actually some scientist believe Marijuana is enabling deep troubles to be brought to the surface and with luck dealt with.

 

As you can tell Im rather pro, but I have so much evidence to prove benefits, you dont need to preach to me OP.

 

Everyone to their own views, and thats the beauty of this planet, but I think the general populous are starting to realize that drugs can be good, or they wouldnt take penicillin or aspirin, its just a lot of people are blind to what a drug is, they forget Alcohol is a drug that kills 100.000 a year in the UK alone.

 

T

Maybe it wasn't as long as your initial post but if the man states what he believes to be the truth then his reply carries as much weight.

 

I didnt de-value his opinion or his point. I was mearly dissapointed that his reply was such a simple generalisation and maybe even as far to say a little insulting.

Speaking as somebody who has inhaled (and still craves a joint despite it being over a decade since the last one)I support any move towards legalising it and the subsequent controlled distribution and quality control. You see by far the biggest problem with the current arrangement is that the unscrupulous dealers have been known to add a little something extra to ensure a more potent hit and subsequent repeat business. This generally takes one of two forms, namely amphetamine or heroin and it's these that tend to kickstart a lot of the problems.

Speaking as somebody who has inhaled (and still craves a joint despite it being over a decade since the last one)I support any move towards legalising it and the subsequent controlled distribution and quality control. You see by far the biggest problem with the current arrangement is that the unscrupulous dealers have been known to add a little something extra to ensure a more potent hit and subsequent repeat business. This generally takes one of two forms, namely amphetamine or heroin and it's these that tend to kickstart a lot of the problems.

 

This is somthing I have thankfully never come across however I do know of it and it scares the crap out of me.

I thought the general discussion forum was for everything non-webdesign related ?

 

Fair play to that but you're also supposed to search to see if your topic has been discussed and this has... to death!

 

Also...

 

Please note: posting of content which is illegal or offensive is not permitted. Be nice and play fair!

 

... now technically weed is illegal so this is a borderline topic but i'm not going to delete it currently (unless the admin advise me too) as everyone has an opinion.

I didnt de-value his opinion or his point. I was mearly dissapointed that his reply was such a simple generalisation and maybe even as far to say a little insulting.

 

How is an actual observation a 'simple generalisation' in fact you saying that is a generalise in itself.

Fair play to that but you're also supposed to search to see if your topic has been discussed and this has... to death!

 

Also...

 

... now technically weed is illegal so this is a borderline topic but i'm not going to delete it currently (unless the admin advise me too) as everyone has an opinion.

 

If you want to get technical, cannabis is not illegal. Production, supply and posession is. If you have to delete the thread then fair enough but I cant see the problem in debate.

 

Maybe I am too passionate about this subject because like you say I am one of those "regular users" but you want the truth? I would give up my recreation pleasure right now if it ment my partner could use cannabis legally and I cant express how much good it does her for her illness. I dont think it is until you personally experience somthing like that, that you can fully appreciate it.

 

I go for weeks and months without it when money is tight or supplies are thin. Maybe I am just one of a very small and unknown group of responsible users.

How is an actual observation a 'simple generalisation' in fact you saying that is a generalise in itself.

 

lmao really....

 

Everyone in my town that smokes that crap are wasters, on the dole or push trolleys in tesco.

 

That isnt a generalisation? He knows, for a fact, with evidence to support it that everone who lives in his town, of who smoke cannabis, are wasters that are on the dole or push trolleys in tesco? I dont want to go down this path of sillyness but your not making it very easy.

 

Dont take my comments wrong, im not trying to insult or attack anyone but seriously?

I as a personal favourite of one mother natures beauties, would total agree with PhunkRabbit.

 

With what i believe to be true from hearing all about the laws and means of the lovely "Plant", from the various "Experts" it all started off in America. All the big boys in the state were worried that Hemp would take over the Cotton Industry, so they went about trying to find a way of criminalizing the Plant.

 

And found that the plant contained some really unique and wonderful chemicals that could really hurt their pockets more than anything.

 

Their is alot of good things and bad things that are said about most things on this planet, but surely something as harmless a cannabis should be made available to the rest of the world, the governments should license its growth and distribution. The would be able to make a lot more money off the legalization of the drug then what they aren't receiving.

 

On the notes of it can turn people into raving nut heads that need carting off to the nearest nut house,

who is to say that these people didn't have these conditions already and that the powers that be have decided it link it with cannabis, just to scare you all!!

 

You can place two people that really hate each other in a solid room with a crate of beer each and they would end up ripping each others heads off, but if you placed a big bag of weed, they would be ordering pizzas together and talking absolute rubbish and laughing their heads off.

 

What we all choose to believe is up to us.

 

You can believe the media and government if you wish or you could believe the people that have grown, smoked, seen etc...

 

Cannabis has so many good purposes. Legalize it now it does more good than harm, ban the bad things in the world alcohol, heroin, crystal meths, crack all the hard things that can and have proven to cus hurt for all of those around the addicts. These harder drugs can destroy so many lives.

 

But with cannabis how many reports of robberies and vicious crimes have anything to do with the attacker wanting to score a bag of weed!!!!!!

I will continue sunday evening, time to spend the weekend in essex with family. Have a nice weekend all

OK maybe i'm not coming across as i feel i should be so i'll declare my interest ina more direct way.

 

• I was youth/social worker in the city of London for ten years
  
• I dealt a lot with the after affects of drugs including alcohol, weed, Ketamin, Heroin, Speed, Cocain, Crystal Meth etc etc
  
• I've watched people go from normal to waster in the space of a month just from using weed.
  
• Several of my close friends have lost the plot on weed, turning in to zombie beggars, one joined the great stoner house in the sky after falling asleep on the motorway oblivious to the danger.
  
• Do i think it should be legalized? Yes and no... there is a hell of a long way to go before the population can be trusted to not abuse it if it was made legal.
  
• Would i use it myself...? Nope. See reasons above.
  
• Is it addictive? Everything is addictive.
  
• Do i think it's medically beneficial for sufferers of certain ailments? Hell yes... but then it has to be carefully controlled and prescribed.
  
• Would i rather a night out with alcoholics, pill heads or stoners...? None of them. Alcoholics is too dangerous, pill heads are plain annoying and stoners are sooooo boring. All they go on about is weed ffs!
  

Edited August 5, 201115 yr by MikeChipshop

OK maybe i'm not coming across as i feel i should be so i'll declare my interest ina more direct way.

 

• I was youth/social worker in the city of London for ten years
• I dealt a lot with the after affects of drugs including alcohol, weed, Ketamin, Heroin, Speed, Cocain, Crystal Meth etc etc
• I've watched people go from normal to waster in the space of a month just from using weed.
• Several of my close friends have lost the plot on weed, turning in to zombie beggars, one joined the great stoner house in the sky after falling asleep on the motorway oblivious to the danger.
• Do i think it should be legalized? Yes and no... there is a hell of a long way to go before the population can be trusted to not abuse it if it was made legal.
• Would i use it myself...? Nope. See reasons above.
• Is it addictive? Everything is addictive.

 

I will discuss this with you sunday. Have a nice weekend and thank you for being honest and explaining the reason for your passionate view It is now far more understandable why you have the opinion you have. Take care.

 

But with cannabis how many reports of robberies and vicious crimes have anything to do with the attacker wanting to score a bag of weed!!!!!!

 

Take it from someone who's worked with the youth offending team... plenty.

I will discuss this with you sunday. Have a nice weekend and thank you for being honest and explaining the reason for your passionate view It is now far more understandable why you have the opinion you have. Take care.

 

 

Haha yeah have a good weekend mate, good to see you can take a discussion the way it is intended.

 

P.S. I know lots of dealers in Essex (my old home) if ya get stuck

That isnt a generalisation? He knows, for a fact, with evidence to support it that everone who lives in his town, of who smoke cannabis, are wasters that are on the dole or push trolleys in tesco? I dont want to go down this path of sillyness but your not making it very easy.

 

Dont take my comments wrong, im not trying to insult or attack anyone but seriously?

 

It is a generalisation, obviously its not the same everywhere but everyone that I know that smokes weed that lives in my town are stereotypical stoners who don't have jobs, live off the dole/parents, if they do have a job its something menial like delivering flyers. Now compare that to the people that I know that drink alcohol... I know doctors, business owners, policemen, etc, **** loads of successful people that it seems that drink doesn't affect their life the same way weed has affected those guys lives.

 

When I was at uni I met a lot of people who smoked weed, some of them suffered from depression and other mental health issues. Hardly any of them graduated.

 

Surely I'm not the only person who's made this observation?

Surely I'm not the only person who's made this observation?

 

I've known a lot of stoners. Some have been wasters, some haven't. One fella I know smokes on a fairly regular basis, has a Master's in journalism and has never to my knowledge been out of work.

 

You'll generally find that the better a situation a person is in, the more cagey they are about their smoking habit. Dossers don't care who knows because they have nothing to lose.

I've known a lot of stoners. Some have been wasters, some haven't. One fella I know smokes on a fairly regular basis, has a Master's in journalism and has never to my knowledge been out of work.

 

You'll generally find that the better a situation a person is in, the more cagey they are about their smoking habit. Dossers don't care who knows because they have nothing to lose.

 

That's about it.

 

Weed isn't responsible for turning people into potential a*seholes like alcohol does. Watch anyone who's drunk too much alcohol when you're sober and watch someone who's been smoking weed when you're sober. I know which one I'd rather spend my company with.

 

Weed isn't for everyone, just like alcohol. It's also not physically addictive but can be pretty mentally addictive. But then, so can chocolate (which can also be harmful if taken in big and regular enough doses).

 

I can't understand why alcohol is legal and weed isn't, or on the other hand why weed is illegal and alcohol isn't. Some might argue that both should be made illegal.

 

Number of toxic (OD) deaths recorded from weed = 0. I'd hate to see the record of the number of toxic deaths from alcohol.

 

I think it should be made legal, and just leave people to do what they want, smoke a joint, have a beer etc. It's not like weed or alcohol are comparable to any of the hard narcotics.

Surely I'm not the only person who's made this observation?

 

I dunno. All the stoners I know are pretty intelligent creative hard working people, many of them with families. A lot of the drinkers I know are a*seholes. Perhaps it has to do with the area you live in? I wouldn't really say one is better than the other, just luck of the draw I guess.

I used to 'buy' some of the arguments PhunkRabbit is making, I no longer do.

I'll agree on the legality issue, the crime issue and the medical issue, but I won't on the regular recreational use of it - it really messes with a large percentage of users heads.

 

I was a regular user of it for 15 years and there is now *no* doubt in my mind that it held me back, big time.

 

It pretty much turns anyone who uses it schizophrenic, but in most, it's a relatively minor form of schizophrenia.

You probably won't notice it, much, because it's just a background 'buzz'

But if you stop smoking it for two weeks, you suddenly regain clarity - it's simply amazing how much you realise the stuff was messing with your mind.

 

The problem is, most regular smokers never give it that long and so really can't see any problem - and i'll admit, that some people can handle it.

 

I use the phrase schizophrenia with reason "Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgement are all common in schizophrenia." - that pretty much describes the bulk of the regular users of cannabis I've met, and myself when I used to partake. I've known and know a few who don't have a problem, but they are few and far between.

 

The reality is, you end up with *two* of yourself, the 'you' when your not on it and the 'you' when you are - your entire thought processes profoundly change when under the influence, so it's pretty damn obvious it's going to impact on your life. The intervals between the two are what stuffs you up - basically, if you smoke a spliff a day. You flip-flop between the two states. Eventually, it messes with your mind.

 

I used to deny it, I was cocksure that it had no lasting effect on my life - but my God, did it ever.

I became reclusive, anti-social, lazy, confused and just plain weird.

 

Cannabis does no harm?

Heh, colour me massively unconvinced.

It may not harm everyone, but I'd say the odds are stacked against you.

 

Don't kid yourselves, if you partake on a regular basis, it could do you a big dis-service.

Unfortunately, you need to stop for some time before you actually realise it.

 

Having said all this, the occasional spliff - at uncommon intervals - every few months or so - no problem.

 

One other thing I should mention, I've seen cannabis ruin so many damn good parties, it's not even funny.

Everyone having a great time, chatting away, laughing - then some stoner brings out a few joints - within 20 minutes the party is either dead, or seriously damaged, depending on how many people partake.

 

Nope, it's not a killer, it's not a massively dangerous drug, but abuse it at your peril.

 

If I were asked by a young person whether to try it, I'd say don't bother - it really isn't worth the hassle. If you do end up trying it and it makes you paranoid *never* try it again. That's the warning sign that your not suited to it, paranoia.

 

I will stand up and say that alcohol is far far worse when abused - that much is obvious. Most stoners are really only a drag on themselves and friends and family - sad cases, but largely harmless. I will re-iterate that some can handle regular use without showing any signs of social problems, but not that many.

 

That's my 2 pence on this issue. I'm going to be damn arrogant here and say I *know* I'm right about it, I'm 43 years old, I've seen what it does.

Edited August 5, 201115 yr by bb_matt

 

• I was youth/social worker in the city of London for ten years
• I dealt a lot with the after affects of drugs including alcohol, weed, Ketamin, Heroin, Speed, Cocain, Crystal Meth etc etc
• I've watched people go from normal to waster in the space of a month just from using weed.
• Several of my close friends have lost the plot on weed, turning in to zombie beggars, one joined the great stoner house in the sky after falling asleep on the motorway oblivious to the danger.

Interesting observations but what proportion of the drug takingpopulation actually falls to those levels? If you work in that sector you will only see the small amount of people who do fall through the cracks, and so the "problem" would seem magnified.

 

I've spent a lot of my life in circles like music, arts, hippies, bikers etc in which drug taking is popular, yet of all the 100's of people I know not one has ever had a problem with the likes of popular ones such as cannabis, ecstacy and the odd line of coke. I have however seen many friends seccumb to alcoholism.

 

I have, and always will be of the opinion that everyone should make an informed choice about their life choices

Take it from someone who's worked with the youth offending team... plenty.

 

At what age did these youth start to smoke cannabis?