Hi

 

I'm in the process of setting up my own web design business - still learning but hopefully on the right track...

 

SO... I got email from someone from an agency about designing a layout for a page. At first I thought they wanted a one page site design.

 

But they wanted a design in psd format for the developer to work with. I don't have Photoshop so have not worked this way.(Basically I have taught myself html and now CSS - plus some bits and bobs as you do.)

 

QUESTION... How best is it to work? Should I purchase Photoshop and learn to create designs thats way aswell? How often are you asked by clients to produce that way?

OR: is it best to continue to stay on the same learning path I'm on? (html, CSS then Javascript and then a bit of php?

First and main tool of web designer is Photoshop. Web designer can but not must be a good hand at PSD to HTML converting.

First and main tool of web designer is Photoshop. Web designer can but not must be a good hand at PSD to HTML converting.

 

I must be weird then - I am currently using Dreamweaver to code and create sites (no, i don't use the design view!) I view in a couple of browsers.

 

I got stuck using Corel Paint Shop Pro to do graphics and photos (because the html 'web start' course i was on 2 years ago recommended downloading that!

 

Does everyone just use Photoshop?

...

Does everyone just use Photoshop?

 

I'd say that the majority of people use Photoshop to create comps for web design. I've heard of people using Illustrator and Fireworks on pretty frequent basis, and I know people who use InDesign (gag).

 

If you are working for yourself then it really doesn't matter what you use, as long as the end result is of professional quality. However, if you have to interface with a developer, another designer, etc., it's almost expected that you use Photoshop in agency settings. When developers at work ask for files they want a layered PSD or a layered Fireworks PNG, not some obscure file type they can't open.

 

I'd say pick either Photoshop or Fireworks and master it, you'll be in a much better place to interface with other members of the design community.

It's all about adding another string to your bow and another revenue stream to your pay packet.

the CS5 suite is pretty invaluable.

I must be weird then - I am currently using Dreamweaver to code and create sites (no, i don't use the design view!) I view in a couple of browsers.

 

I got stuck using Corel Paint Shop Pro to do graphics and photos (because the html 'web start' course i was on 2 years ago recommended downloading that!

 

Does everyone just use Photoshop?

 

Web design is a kind of graphics design and Photoshop is an industry standard in this domain, so PDS-template is the end product of web designer.

HTML/CSS coding (PSD to HTML conversion) is a sphere of responsibility of such specialists as maker-up, coder, front-end developer.

the CS5 suite is pretty invaluable.

the CS5 suite is pretty invaluable expensive. Damn it, let's be honest. CS5 suite is grossly overpriced, and terrible value for money, even if it is good software (dreamweaver, please go and stand in the corner and don't talk to anyone).

 

Yes, it's true that photoshop is used by the majority of web designers. But it's not a requirement. Personally I use GIMP and Inkscape for all of my web graphics - I won't use adobe out of principle. And if you're on a mac, there are a couple of really excellent graphics editors out there for a very small outlay.

 

I'm sure there are some good windoze graphics packages too, but since I won't go near microsoft either, I don't know about them.

 

If the client wants photoshop, there's not a lot you can do about it. GIMP will save in .psd format, but I can't vouch for its accuracy.

Edited April 17, 201115 yr by notbanksy

Thanks for all the food for thought

 

Great points made xx

the CS5 suite is pretty invaluable expensive. Damn it, let's be honest. CS5 suite is grossly overpriced, and terrible value for money, even if it is good software (dreamweaver, please go and stand in the corner and don't talk to anyone).

 

Yes, it's true that photoshop is used by the majority of web designers. But it's not a requirement. Personally I use GIMP and Inkscape for all of my web graphics - I won't use adobe out of principle. And if you're on a mac, there are a couple of really excellent graphics editors out there for a very small outlay.

 

I'm sure there are some good windoze graphics packages too, but since I won't go near microsoft either, I don't know about them.

 

If the client wants photoshop, there's not a lot you can do about it. GIMP will save in .psd format, but I can't vouch for its accuracy.

 

I'd say that yes, the suites are overpriced, unless you score them at student pricing. I paid 399 USD for my Design Premium suite while I was a student, so I haven't had to pay the exorbitant markup on the retail versions.

 

I would say that Photoshop and Illustrator alone are worth their price. They are such powerful programs and most open source or cheaper software doesn't have the full functionality. Fireworks is a great app, too. And like I said before, if you intend to work in a professional environment you really have to know FW or PS. Also, if you do any print work InDesign is pretty much required.

 

Adobe has us by the balls so they can charge accordingly, and they do. I'm not arguing to the contrary, but I do think that Photoshop is unparalleled in power. You could probably find two or three cheaper/free apps to get all of the functionality, but that's just inefficient in my books.

I use Gimp these days as I moved away from Windows.

 

Gimp can do all that I require, easy to use and plenty of plugins.....Also its FREE!

 

Used to use Fireworks in my Windows days but think that Gimp is better.

i personally dont think you should set up a web design company if you cant design....learn how to use photoshop then go from there...

i personally dont think you should set up a web design company if you cant design....learn how to use photoshop then go from there...

 

Plenty of work out there for a sole developer.

I do get a lot of jobs converting PSD's, Jpegs (groan) and BMP's (more groaning) to xhtml etc where i wouldn't need any knowledge of Photoshop except how to open a PSD

I do agree however that to advertise yourself as a web designer, a good amount of knowledge of 'design' is necessary.

 

 

 

i personally dont think you should set up a web design company if you cant design....learn how to use photoshop then go from there...

Sorry, this isn't personal, but this idea that design happens in photoshop makes me so cross. The use of photoshop has nothing whatever to do with design. Design is the application of a set of principles and good practices in order to solve a problem. By all means, use photoshop to make your website graphics. It's good for that. But don't spread this damaging myth that photoshop is a design process. It's not only bs, but it's damaging to new designers who would benefit from knowing exactly what design is about.

 

Do you people work for Adobe or something?

 

@porkchops, yes the student versions are priced well - in fact, they're about the price the full versions should be. But remember, the licensing explicitly forbids any commercial work. If you're using the software to make money you're in breach of the licence (not that I personally care, but Adobe would if they got wind of it.)

Student versions of Adobe products can be used for commercial work and have been ever since CS3 I believe. If your a student well worth getting a license for personal use now. Although it is not permitted to be moved to a non-personal machine or re-sold.

 

www adobe com/education/students/studentteacheredition/faq.html

@porkchops, yes the student versions are priced well - in fact, they're about the price the full versions should be. But remember, the licensing explicitly forbids any commercial work. If you're using the software to make money you're in breach of the licence (not that I personally care, but Adobe would if they got wind of it.)

 

Can I use my Adobe Student and Teacher Edition software for commercial use?

Yes. You may purchase a Student and Teacher Edition for personal as well as commercial use.

 

From the link f3zz3h posted above. This makes them a no-brainer for anyone with access to a student copy. They are an easy investment to recoup if you are using them in a professional capacity, too. One website easily pays off the retail Design or Web Premium suites. Or Photoshop/Illustrator if you want to buy them individually.

 

We don't work for Adobe, but there really aren't good alternatives for Photoshop/Fireworks and Illustrator when you are trying to maintain a professional workflow.

We don't work for Adobe, but there really aren't good alternatives for Photoshop/Fireworks and Illustrator when you are trying to maintain a professional workflow.

Yes I know you don't work for Adobe, I was being sarcastic ;p

 

But you're wrong about there being no good alternatives. I know great web designers who refuse to use Adobe. I'm not saying I'm one of them. A good designer is a good designer, regardless of the tools (s)he uses.

Yes I know you don't work for Adobe, I was being sarcastic ;p

 

But you're wrong about there being no good alternatives. I know great web designers who refuse to use Adobe. I'm not saying I'm one of them. A good designer is a good designer, regardless of the tools (s)he uses.

 

Sure, no argument there, but why be limited by your tools? I think that freelancers can get away with it, but if you work for an agency they are going to expect you to be proficient with Fireworks or Photoshop.

Just chip in here and say the only reason i use Adobe tools is because i consider them the best. I have tried other tools (god knows i wished fore something better and cheaper!) but couldn't find anything that matched up. Which is a shame cos they aint cheap!

@porkchops the agency scenario is a fair comment. If everyone else in your organisation is using adobe, then it makes sense to also use it.

 

@Mike out of interest are you on windoze or mac?

@porkchops the agency scenario is a fair comment. If everyone else in your organisation is using adobe, then it makes sense to also use it.

 

@Mike out of interest are you on windoze or mac?

 

Aye, I just realized this is in the freelancing section but I'm in love with my agency job so I suppose it's good to at least be familiar with the software in case, as a freelancer, you want an agency job someday. Steady income is definitely nice.

 

I'm on Windows, too, if that info is pertinent.

Just chip in here and say the only reason i use Adobe tools is because i consider them the best. I have tried other tools (god knows i wished fore something better and cheaper!) but couldn't find anything that matched up. Which is a shame cos they aint cheap!

 

Well, I'm in the lucky position of having my Adobe Creative Suite bought for me by the company I work for so I use Adobe tools for most of my web work. I'd definitely agree that they're the best tools for the job that I've tried, however if I didn't get the Suite free I wouldn't buy it or any of the individual programs myself. The pricing is ridiculous and I'd much rather use a free of more reasonably price alternative.

I think it's horses for courses. Depends on your skills, and the nature of the work.

 

Personally, my favorite thing is to sketch out rough ideas on paper, then jump straight into designing in the browser. My weapons of choice usually being Slim and original syntax Sass.

 

There's lots of people who like to design this way, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. 37Signals are big advocates for instance. With CSS3 and Sass Mixins it's just as quick as using PS nowadays, and you end up with something 'real' and clickable at the end of it. No translating into HTML.

 

On the other hand, if you are creating a site that has loads of detail, texturing or illustration, then there's no getting away from the fact that a graphics editor like PS or Gimp will be the more appropriate environment to start the the work in.

 

It's probably worth getting familar with both approaches, then using whichever is the best fit from project to project.

 

p.s If you've never tried Sass, give it a whirl. It's amazing

 

@Mike out of interest are you on Windows or mac?

 

 

Corrected that for you.

I'm on Windows, as always i have tried Mac but just didn't like it. Different people have very different ways of working and i just work better with Windows.

 

 

Corrected that for you.

I'm on Windows, as always i have tried Mac but just didn't like it. Different people have very different ways of working and i just work better with Windows.

Haha

 

The reason I ask is because I've noticed a couple of really slick-looking graphics editors pop up for mac these days, but I don't keep up with windoze software.

 

I don't judge people according to what operating system they use.

 

 

The reason I ask is because I've noticed a couple of really slick-looking graphics editors pop up for mac these days, but I don't keep up with windoze software.

 

 

Haha well wouldn't be of any use to me anyway as i bit the bullet and bought CS5 :'( Oww my aching pocket!

 

 

 

Haha well wouldn't be of any use to me anyway as i bit the bullet and bought CS5 :'( Oww my aching pocket!

 

My misses works in an it reseller company i coudlda got you it dead cheap!!

how can you be gutted if you dont know how to design? that slike me sayin "ah man, im gutted i didnt get that 100k year job as a doctor" mainly cos i dont know anything about being a doctor...

Sorry to be totally blunt here, but you're offering web design services and don't use Photoshop?

 

With regards to the learning path, well I say pretty fast (assuming you want to get work) become highly highly proficient in a product like Photoshop.

Genuine question (read the whole thread if you doubt this)

 

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

 

I'm beginning to feel like a stuck record here. Why is nobody telling the OP to study design? Learning photoshop has nothing whatever to do with offering a good service.

 

Shoot me!

(apologies for my somewhat zealous tone here, but I've been posting the same thing right through this thread )

Edited April 20, 201115 yr by notbanksy

Genuine question (read the whole thread if you doubt this)

 

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

 

I'm beginning to feel like a stuck record here. Why is nobody telling the OP to study design? Learning photoshop has nothing whatever to do with offering a good service.

 

Shoot me!

(apologies for my somewhat zealous tone here, but I've been posting the same thing right through this thread )

 

I'm with you Notbanksy

If you are freelancing and picking up work through your portfolio, and the clients are happy with your work, does it really matter what software you are using so long as you get the desired results, I havent had a client specify it must be designed in photoshop, infact I guess 90% dont even know what it is.

Ive actually designed some neat graphics in the cheap program I already have...

no, I'm not putting them on here... yet

 

But I will be purchasing Photoshop in the near future (time to get out my shiney new credit card)

Though I will certainly check out some of the alternatives mentioned on here

 

how can you be gutted if you dont know how to design?

 

I reckon I know this design you speak of - I've painted, collaged, sketched, doodled, screen printed, fabric penned, fabric dyed, embroidered, customised my way through life - so thanx I'm good ;-)

I reckon I know this design you speak of - I've painted, collaged, sketched, doodled, screen printed, fabric penned, fabric dyed, embroidered, customised my way through life - so thanx I'm good ;-)

 

What you've listed is all classified as Art.

 

Design is not art. That isn't to say they don't go hand in hand some of the time, but in reality design is communication. You may be able to get some of the basics of composition and color theory from traditional art, but there is a lot to learn about design beyond that.

 

When it comes to web design there is even more to consider than print.

 

Notbanksy is absolutely right:

 

Why is nobody telling the OP to study design? Learning photoshop has nothing whatever to do with offering a good service.

 

Don't dismiss learning design basics. Unless you are a seasoned designer you should always be focused on mastering the principles of design BEFORE Photoshop.

What you've listed is all classified as Art.

I was just trying to say I'm capable of designing... (not mentioning web design)

 

Photoshop is a great tool for web design - I'm sure most here can agree.

But it doesn't mean an amazing site can't be designed using other software, or dare I say pen and paper etc

 

I think design encompases a lot of things, communication is obviously an important element

 

Web design, of course, has a lot more to consider(useability for example)but I think the best way to learn is with practice and a bit of experimenting :-)

designers who aren't good in Photoshop

 

Sounds like a joke.

Surgeons that aren't good in surgery tools.

the CS5 suite is pretty invaluable expensive.

 

lol i agree, photoshop alone is expensive, £953 just for photoshop cs5 ext

Wow! at last others that use inkscape and GIMP for web development. I thought I was the only one. I work for a large furniture manufacturer and am about to go freelance too and I'll still continue to use GIMP and Inkscape.

To be honest if you are comfortable with ps and adobe then use it, but in my humble opinion for what I need a graphics application for I can't justify the high cost of adobe application.

 

If you're unsure about the capabilities of inkscape and GIMP them take half an hour out, sit with a cup of coffee and browse the net, the amount of extremely talented developers and artists out there that use these applications will blow you away.

 

just use what you're comfortable with.

 

hope it helps