Hi,

 

I'm 16 and I'm in college and to be honest I feel really lucky with the job I've got. I work for a small company as their (sole) web developer. I can do a little design work and I do now and then, I also work with their only designer (who can do a bit of development). As far as developing goes I'm the smartest guy in there, I only do a small amount of hours (because of college), about 12 a week but I am EXTREMELY busy in them hours and I often do some extra hours if something goes dangerously wrong. I'm on £5 an hour now and I don't know if I'm being taken for granted or if I'm being optimistic?

 

What is the average hourly rate for a PHP Developer, if any? Take into account I am 16 and this is my first professional web career, I do have a small portfolio but this is my first career in web development. Am I being slightly optimistic? I could probably get better pay if I went and worked in Tescos and had no responsibility whatsoever but I want a good CV and a job I actually like.

 

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks.

Hi,

 

I'm 16 and I'm in college and to be honest I feel really lucky with the job I've got. I work for a small company as their (sole) web developer. I can do a little design work and I do now and then, I also work with their only designer (who can do a bit of development). As far as developing goes I'm the smartest guy in there, I only do a small amount of hours (because of college), about 12 a week but I am EXTREMELY busy in them hours and I often do some extra hours if something goes dangerously wrong. I'm on £5 an hour now and I don't know if I'm being taken for granted or if I'm being optimistic?

 

What is the average hourly rate for a PHP Developer, if any? Take into account I am 16 and this is my first professional web career, I do have a small portfolio but this is my first career in web development. Am I being slightly optimistic? I could probably get better pay if I went and worked in Tescos and had no responsibility whatsoever but I want a good CV and a job I actually like.

 

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks.

 

I would diplomatically ask for at least the minimum wage of £5.93, although I am not sure if at 16 you are entitled to that.

Alternatively suggest you have been approached by another company and they are offering £*** amount but you really like it here and would like to stay but the money is very appealing with the other company. If they value your skills they will compromise.

I would diplomatically ask for at least the minimum wage of £5.93, although I am not sure if at 16 you are entitled to that.

Alternatively suggest you have been approached by another company and they are offering £*** amount but you really like it here and would like to stay but the money is very appealing with the other company. If they value your skills they will compromise.

 

At 16 National Minimum Wage is £3.57 for me, it's shocking. I know!

 

I'm not sure if there are any other companies that need my skills locally! I've been looking and i'm still looking now but I can't find much!

I thought devs charge £50 per hour. In my opinion you should be getting at least £10 ph. It doesn't matter how old you are, my 13 yro bro got a social media management client paying £50 per hour!

 

You don't need to work locally, you can get great well paying jobs on pph freelancer elance etc. And if you're working for people online your age doesn't matter at all. I have never had anyone ask my age (nearly 26).

I doubt that you would get more money working at tesco at the age of 16 as most places will give you the minimum wage and for your age that isn't much.

 

So you can look at it as for a 16 year old you are working, you are doing something that you enjoy, you are getting experience, your employer is flexible in the hours you keep, you have a good reference for the future, you have something good to have on your CV, you are getting live sites to add to a portfolio, your making more than minimum wage, its not like you will be stuck in this job forever, your still at college.

 

I wouldn't say you are being taken advantage of, yes they will be making money off of the work that you do, but that business, and you are gaining so much experience. Which in the long run when you have finished with college and are looking for full time employment will mean that your staring wage will be higher than if you spent this time at tesco.

 

 

I guess I come at this from this at a different angle than those above that say you should get more money as age doesn't matter. Its just the company I work for get calls from people 18 - 25 looking to do work experience with us for free, simply so they have that experience and that reference while they are looking for a job.

Yeah that's true Dizi. Sometimes I forget about the world of work

 

It's great that at the age of 16 your driven enough to even have a responsible job.

 

But, in all honesty, you're 16. You should be out getting into trouble. Work can wait.

Well, this is the thing. I know it's good that I've got a responsible job but, it's also a burden.

 

I'm the only one of my friends with an actual work responsibility... I have deadlines to meet and I find myself replying to work-related emails in college and that's when I start thinking, is this worth it?

 

I LOVE the work and my employer is really flexible with me I guess but, I think that's all because she's getting me for a REALLY cheap deal. When I see the quotes the company makes and, I then compare it to my pay it's frustrating.

 

I'd love to get a less responsibility job and do freelance but that's a SCARY venture and I wouldn't be sure how to start freelance, what I'd need? Would I need to get a hosting reseller account so I can offer hosting? On the bright side though, I wouldn't be busy with actual work because it would be low responsibility and it could look better on a CV if I went freelance?

 

Is freelance more impressive than working with a company?

 

 

Is freelance more impressive than working with a company?

 

 

It's more impressive to work with a company of course, with them you can start building your portfolio and once it happened, you can now start with freelancing.

Well, this is the thing. I know it's good that I've got a responsible job but, it's also a burden.

 

I'm the only one of my friends with an actual work responsibility... I have deadlines to meet and I find myself replying to work-related emails in college and that's when I start thinking, is this worth it?

 

I LOVE the work and my employer is really flexible with me I guess but, I think that's all because she's getting me for a REALLY cheap deal. When I see the quotes the company makes and, I then compare it to my pay it's frustrating.

 

I'd love to get a less responsibility job and do freelance but that's a SCARY venture and I wouldn't be sure how to start freelance, what I'd need? Would I need to get a hosting reseller account so I can offer hosting? On the bright side though, I wouldn't be busy with actual work because it would be low responsibility and it could look better on a CV if I went freelance?

 

Is freelance more impressive than working with a company?

 

Oh FFS, 16 hours of work is such a burden.

Just what responsibility do you think you have that freelancing won't have. You will have far more responsibilities and if you can't hack 16 hours a week of doing what you're told to do and regular work then freelancing is certainly not for you.

 

As for the money. Yes it's low but you're getting paid to learn skills and you're not going to do that working in Tesco.

 

For the CV, what does that matter if your heart is set on freelancing? Who's going to be looking at it. If you're thinking of applying for jobs in the furture then the fact you were employed and paid by someone will look far better than saying you were freelancing - how many kids in their bedroom are going to put that. An employer is going to want to see that you have a good work ethic....but then only you can decide if you have. If you're moaning about 16 hours and not earning a fortune at 16 then you probably haven't. Hard work is what gets you somewhere, you will have to do crappy jobs but just get your head down, take the rough with the smooth and learn as much as you can while you can.

 

And forget about what your friends are doing as well. Work for you and your future.

I have deadlines to meet and I find myself replying to work-related emails in college and that's when I start thinking, is this worth it?

 

I LOVE the work and my employer is really flexible with me I guess but, I think that's all because she's getting me for a REALLY cheap deal. When I see the quotes the company makes and, I then compare it to my pay it's frustrating.

 

I'd love to get a less responsibility job and do freelance but that's a SCARY venture and I wouldn't be sure how to start freelance, what I'd need? Would I need to get a hosting reseller account so I can offer hosting? On the bright side though, I wouldn't be busy with actual work because it would be low responsibility and it could look better on a CV if I went freelance?

 

Is freelance more impressive than working with a company?

 

Work, no matter what you do, well apart from doctors etc you're making a business more money than you cost. If you don't like this you need to think about starting your own business.

 

Having your own biz is a lot of responsibility. You will be working 24/7 no breaks at all if your serious, even when watching tv drinking a beer you'll have 1/2 your mind on sales and clients. But that doesn't matter because you're making money for yourself and you make all decisions.

 

What do you need to get started? Clients.

 

Hosting? Don't bother with this. You don't want to be getting emails at 2am because a server is down, even though you are not responsible for the admin you will be the person a client will call.

 

 

Freelancing can harm a CV, it makes you look like a maverick. Generally an employer wants boring safe people so there are no surprises.

 

Oh FFS, 16 hours of work is such a burden.

Just what responsibility do you think you have that freelancing won't have. You will have far more responsibilities and if you can't hack 16 hours a week of doing what you're told to do and regular work then freelancing is certainly not for you.

 

As for the money. Yes it's low but you're getting paid to learn skills and you're not going to do that working in Tesco.

 

For the CV, what does that matter if your heart is set on freelancing? Who's going to be looking at it. If you're thinking of applying for jobs in the furture then the fact you were employed and paid by someone will look far better than saying you were freelancing - how many kids in their bedroom are going to put that. An employer is going to want to see that you have a good work ethic....but then only you can decide if you have. If you're moaning about 16 hours and not earning a fortune at 16 then you probably haven't. Hard work is what gets you somewhere, you will have to do crappy jobs but just get your head down, take the rough with the smooth and learn as much as you can while you can.

 

And forget about what your friends are doing as well. Work for you and your future.

 

 

Why so angry?

 

16 hours in a responsible position + college + course work + a typical teenages social life. That's a lot of work.

 

Most guys I know are freelance, or have their own business for precisely that fact. They don't want to be told what to do.

 

Weren't facebook, bebo, myspace, apple, microsoft etc all started in a bedroom?

 

You complain that overseas guys are paid low but you think it's ok for someone in this country with a far higher living cost to accept a lower wage? huh?

who's angry? I didn't complain about overseas guys wages at all I was getting back to you on your holier than thou attitude and calling people a racist by having your own business model that exploited overseas workers for your own financial gain.

 

12 hours is nothing and as the guy pointed out he could do the same hours working in Tesco. What I was pointing out that freelance work at that age, or any age, will have far more reponsibilities and pressures and at 16 it is far better to be employed by someone and get paid to learn whilst gaining experience and knowledge that will look good on a CV. Once college is out of the way then, maybe, think about freelance. Giving it up because you expect more money is pretty futile and there will always be someone to fill that position and lap it up.

 

Your mentions of facebook etc or 'most guys' are pretty irrelevant to his position. He's 16 and should be lapping up any chance at experience over taking a dead end job at Tesco. If he shies away from responsibility now because his mates are having a seemingly better time then that's up to him but in my experience you go for whatever is available and don't expect everything on a plate when you're starting out.

 

Still waiting for that apology btw.

You have to remember that the business has a lot more to pay out than just your wages, out of the money they earn they have to pay, your wage, everyone else wage, the office space, the electricity, the internet bill, the hosting bill, water bill, possible outsourcing bills, the software updates, the computer updates...the list could go on.

 

Lets weigh up the freelance responsibility against work ones.

 

Replying to emails:

freelancing: you will be checking and replying to them in college as these are your clients

working: you don't have to check them at college as it is not your responsibility to reply to them out of your office hours, you just chose to do so

 

Designing site

Freelancer: you have to do all of this

Working: you have support from the designer and don't have to do it.

 

Coding site

Freelancer: you have to do all of this

Working: you have support from the designer although would more than likely do most of this

 

Finding clients

Freelancer: you have to do this

Working: you don't have to bother, you just do what you are given

 

Money

Freelancer: Not a steady income, chances of having to waste a lot of time chasing payment, but you get 100% of what you can get...although then you have to pay taxes and do tax returns, fun

Working: its a steady income

 

CV

Freelancer: While it can impress, freelancer is used by a lot of people who have simply designed a site for a family member...that's not so impressive. So you would need to have some good clients in your portfolio if you are wanting to get a job with a company.

Working: It shows dedication if you have been there a while and shows previous experience in the industry so will also help to get you a better paid position when you are looking for full time employment.

 

Free time

Freelancer: Yeah right, with clients emailing you and you needing to do all the work yourself

Working: work is done at work and doesn't need to spill into free time, unless you decide to let it.

 

Picking projects

Freelancer:you have a free choice on what you decided to do, although you have to then be able to sell yourself to actually get the project.

Working: No real choice you probably have to do what you are given.

 

 

Again there are loads more factors, but I got sick of tying them

 

I know that it might sound like I am pro-working, but its more a case of showing you the hard reality of both...working is stressful and freelancing is more so as you have to do it all and it just eats up all the time that you have. As if you feel you need to reply to emails from work when you are at college imagine how you will be if you had to manage your own clients as well as doing all of the work yourself. So you have more chance of free time where you are.

 

If it is a money issue, you may think that you can get more money freelancing but you have to remember that to make money you first need clients and to get and keep clients you need to put in a lot of time and effort.

 

While I do think Zed tone is a little harsh, he is right, you should be happy that at your age you have the chance to get some real experience and get paid for it. Ok your friends don't work and you are just 16 but if you feel you have too much responsibility at the job you are at, freelancing isn't the answer. The choice really is do you want more time to party with your friends, or stick with something that will help you with a future career be it freelancing or with a company.

I paid thousands of pounds to go through university, and you are actually earning money for something far more valuable 'experience'!

 

My suggestion would be to take this experience and then look for work in a couple of years with a company that employ more senior staff.

 

Try not to think of the short term, a few extra bucks now may lose you thousands in the future if you go freelance!

 

Freelancing is much more suited for designers who already have years of experience.

I dont know what the situation over in the UK is so you will have to bear with me but

 

-what does your contract of employment state your role is

-have you been there any length or time and if so have you had a payrise

-if you think that there is too much being asked of you talk to your boss

-does your boss know the role that you are doing, if not talk to your boss

-again I do not know what the UK situation is but over here a developer would not be getting minimum wage, talk to your boss about this

-don't look at emails outside of work, if there is pressure on you to do so talk to your boss

-why is a 16 working as their sole web developer?, that's not a pop at the OP just more of a question to the business' philosophy

-if you think you are worth more, talk to your boss

who's angry? I didn't complain about overseas guys wages at all I was getting back to you on your holier than thou attitude and calling people a racist by having your own business model that exploited overseas workers for your own financial gain.

 

12 hours is nothing and as the guy pointed out he could do the same hours working in Tesco. What I was pointing out that freelance work at that age, or any age, will have far more reponsibilities and pressures and at 16 it is far better to be employed by someone and get paid to learn whilst gaining experience and knowledge that will look good on a CV. Once college is out of the way then, maybe, think about freelance. Giving it up because you expect more money is pretty futile and there will always be someone to fill that position and lap it up.

 

Your mentions of facebook etc or 'most guys' are pretty irrelevant to his position. He's 16 and should be lapping up any chance at experience over taking a dead end job at Tesco. If he shies away from responsibility now because his mates are having a seemingly better time then that's up to him but in my experience you go for whatever is available and don't expect everything on a plate when you're starting out.

 

Still waiting for that apology btw.

 

Facebook etc isn't irrelevant. There are 100000s of businesses like this, everyone starts somewhere. Do you think an employer expects to see the location you were working when designing the local florists website?

 

 

 

So Ash, you have some opinions here. Most are in favour of work. Where are your thoughts about things now?

as I say, irrelevant to the OP's question.

I think £5 is a bit of a pisstake for a freelance PHP dev, but:

 

What level are you at with PHP?

Are you employed (PAYE) by the company?

 

Two above questions can alter my response.

 

If you are working for them on payroll and are quite inexperienced with PHP I'd stick with it. I did for a year, albeit I was full time and on £8/hour... Ok it was crap pay but I gained invaluable experience!

I haven't read all of the replies but I'll say this:

 

You are lucky to have that job, do not take it for granted...and stick with it.

Focus on college, make that a priority and don't worry too much about money.

You are going to want more when you see that people are making money, and I bet you could if you wanted earn a lot more than some of your mates.

 

Still, stick with the job and enjoy being when step ahead when you go to uni, yes...I'd go uni.

Congrats on the job man!

It's not everyone who goes out there and gets a job while at college (certainly not me).

 

You are gaining not just £5 an hour but also experience. Stick with it and it will only get better.

 

Another thing to add to Dizi's post...

 

Work: Working hours

Freelance: 24/7