Problems[/b]

Do you have access to edit the website?

Also have you noted anywhere on the website that it's copyrighted to your name?

jj

no contract, did it as a favour. You've probably answered your own question. Lesson learning time.

did you tell them at the outset that the site was only free whilst your family member worked there? If not, then legally I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

 

Best to write this one off to experience and move on.

ya chancer. ya cant expect them to pay ya now. there is nothing in it especially that you didnt make up a contract and ya didnt put any copyright markings on the site. ya dont have a leg to stand on. all ya can do now is put the site as a piece on your portfolio, learn from your mistakes and move on....

jjj

Your rights as author of the work are automatic and last for 70 years unless there was an agreement in place to show otherwise so it shouldn't matter that there was nothing on the site. To qualify your work has to be regarded as original and exhibit a degree of labour, skill or judgement. Check Link for more details.

 

You could say that they cannot display the website without an express licence from you and they need to pay you something for that licence, but they will probably say that there was an inferred licence to display your work as nothing was said in the beginning.

 

If I were you, I'd write to the company letting them know that the work belongs to you and they cannot change the code without your express consent or it would be a breach of copyright. Then when it come to updating their website they either have to pay for a whole new site or they have to ask you for permission to modify it (where you say of course, but you have to pay me £xxx for the licence) or you can offer to do the work for your normal fee and end up with a new client.

 

It unlikely that you will get anything from it unless you monitor the site to check for unauthorised changes, but for 5 minutes of writing the letter it may still be worth it.

I think if this went to a small claims court you would loose. You made the site for them, is it really fair to now expect them to pay up since a member of staff left?

kjj

I think before you go to small claims you should talk to a solicitor about it and get some real legal advice.

 

You may have done this work as a favour for a family member but he approached you as a representative of this company, unless you asked them if you could do a site as practice/ to have in your portfolio, in which case you contacted an employee of this business. You might say because it is a favour to your family that you are now owed money, but personally I see it as you did a freebie for the company as a whole regardless of your connection to the company. So unless you did say to them, if this person leaves I expect x amount for the site or for it not to be used then really it still stands that you did a freebie for the company.

 

Lets say you got given a free imac in a promotion, the person in that company who came up with the idea and ran the promotion then left the company, would the company then come to you and say well this guy has now left so now you have to pay us £900 because this is no longer a freebie? So no I don't see why the company has to pay for the site you freely gave it to them, unless as said above you have a contract which states that you can take it away or request payment at a later date.

I think if this went to a small claims court you would loose. You made the site for them, is it really fair to now expect them to pay up since a member of staff left?

 

Just to be clear, I completely agree and I think court would end up being a waste of your time and money. The work has already been done so you're not losing anything and as I said the court would probably conclude that there was an inferred 'free' licence to use the site as it is.

 

There is still nothing wrong with writing to them and making yourself clear that you own the copyright and that they can't change it without your permission, but I think court at this stage is a waste I'm afraid.

Out of interest, who registered the domain name?

If you've got no contract and you did it as a favour, I'd let it go. Treat it as a learning curve. I don't think you can design a website for free then go back and ask for money because you've changed your mind, seems a bit out of order! Sorry to be harsh But it's like setting up a stock photo site offering free images, then emailing everyone to tell them to pay up or not use the images! If you offer a free service, the law I think would be on their side.

 

You could take them to court, but is it worth it for the hassle and money? Plus, you may have given up any copyright when you told them they can use the website free of charge. Could also damage your reputation.

 

In reality, harshly, it sounds like you've been a bit naive in designing websites for free and with no contracts

kkk

So in other words you are going to lie your arse off in court by saying that they agreed to pay you in the first place and they have failed to do so?

 

Am I right in guessing that you and this family member feel that this company treated the family member unfairly and now you guys are just trying to get what you can from them. As this sounds more like a revenge tactic rather than you just wanting money for something you agreed to do for free.

 

Also remember this forum is a public place and anything you say here can be used against you just as much as it can help you.

 

 

With regards to the domain, did the family member register it with his own money or with company money as he would have no claim to it if they have records showing they paid for it.

kkk

k, just from your OP it seemed like you had done the work for free and now because your family member has had a falling out with their previous employer you have decided that you wanted to get paid for something you were never meant to be paid for.

 

If there has always been an agreement of payment then that is a different story to what has been playing out in here and my original message stands, seek the advice of a solicitor and take them all the proof you have, like any email conversations you have had with this company.

I sent an invoice about 2 months ago, I suppose that will have some real weight.

You really can't expect money from this company now just because your family member no longer works there. That's blatant cheek if you ask me and I can see why they'd be a bit peeved off.

 

Learn your lesson - never do anything for free for a family member. Maybe a slightly discounted rate. Personally I'd never do anything web related for a family member - I'd be happy to give them advice and recommend someone, but never do it myself. It always causes more hassle than its worth.

kk £60 which I will get back if I win.

I have changed the OP.

 

Anyway I AM going to court, most likely.

 

I have e-mailed the company the same invoice I sent 2 months ago explaining I will give them 7 days to pay/to correspond or I will take legal action.

A small claims court will cost me around £30 to £60 which I will get back if I win.

 

The costs for claiming for less than £1000 will be the initial court fee of £80. and then you'll have to pay a hearing fee of £75 if it gets that far.

 

If you can show the Court that there was an agreement of somekind for them to pay you and you have sent them an invoice and they simply havent paid it then there may be some merit in pursuing it. If there was no agreement or it was inferred that you would do the work for no payment then you might struggle.

 

The reality is that you have nothing to lose by claiming via the court except for the court fees you pay out, the £155. The only down side is if they can prove that you have behaved unreasonably in bringing the claim then you may be at risk of paying thier costs, but that would come down to the Judge's decretion as to whether they deem it unreasonable, although if you act in person it is extremely rare.

 

Good luck though.

Oh if you issue your claim online then its slightly cheaper too - by £5 or £10 i think.

Ah, apologies forum - I didn't see that as being important.

 

I sent an invoice about 2 months ago, I suppose that will have some real weight.

 

Something's not ringing true about this now lol

 

You originally said you designed them a site for free, now you sent them an invoice. If you sent them an invoice, why originally say you designed it for free as a favour?

 

My advice is, don't try and lie about it in court. You're bound to get caught out. They may still have email evidence to prove you told them it was free. Plus, you might have to prove you sent them an invoice. Any company would keep track of invoices from two months ago, especially unpaid ones. Presumably you have done?

Ins and outs aside, did you send them an invoice stating the project details and the amount that you are now seeking, and can you prove this?

Do you have a contract with them agreeing on the price and accepting? Was the project delivered on time? If so, I recommend you to get a solicitor (I use The Thomas Higgins Partnership) to send a letter before action to see how it plays out. If there is no contract (and I'm assuming there's not given the family connection), then I would forget about it. Its likely to backfire quite badly, they'll say its a counterfeit, defaming their brand, etc which might end up in a criminal case.

 

Edit: nevermind i just ready more carefully and saw you don't have a contract. I wouldn't waste my time. If you're trying to prove there was an agreement with the family member, they'll probably just say that person didn't have authorization to do this and its going to look like you're trying to extort them.

Edited September 20, 201016 yr by Jock

Hiya!

 

Sorry to hear about your difficulties! What I do to avoid mishaps with payment is upload the site then put a .htaccess file in place. This can be used to limit the access of the website by ip address.

 

I keep the .htaccess file in force until they pay, simple!

it

No, like I said I didn't design it for free. Also, like I said...apologies I didn't see it as being important.

I have no need to lie in court.

 

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You initially said you designed it as a favour!!

 

Look, I'm not going to bang on about it, but surely you would know that a key piece of info is to mention you sent them an invoice because this makes the difference between designing a site as a favour or simply not being paid for a job and they are two totally different things.

 

If you sent them an invoice two months ago, you will still have evidence of that. But was that before or after the family member left the company?

 

The point is, with no contract, you've got to prove you sat down and told the client you will design them a site for x amount which you now say you did rather than you now want money because the family member has left/fallen out with the company.

 

It's still not really stacking up for me because one minute it's a favour the next it's unpaid work. But I don't know what deal you had with the client. Only you can decide which way to go with it now.

 

But yeah, I'm definitely chasing it up...the only thing I have to lose is fees