I've been running a very niche links directory since 1999. It's a very small niche that caters for a specific cultural group, and mainly aimed at a UK audience.

 

So why is it I constantly get bombarded by search optimisation companies submitting irrelevant links and articles? Over the last 7 days I had 206 submissions, 54 links and the rest articles. Only a dozen or so were on topic.

 

Of course I have a suspicion that some of the sites pages have an attractive PR scrore (never bothered to check) and the site has always featured very well for searches in the niche (dozens of first pages results), so that trends to attract them in, probably drooling in anticipation of getting a backlink from a PR whatever page.

 

These so called "SEO specialists" are nothing more than spammers, probably the same people who constantly link drop on forums, but how to deal with them? Should I name and shame? Should I email the site owners to tell them their URL is being spammed everywhere?

Edited October 29, 200917 yr by BlueDreamer

Telling the site owners about it certainly has an appeal!

 

A lot of them will have engaged an SEO company in good faith and on big promises, unaware that their brand is being undermined by low quality spamming and inappropriate link-building.

 

I've had a lot of companies offer link-building services, which I must admit is something I really struggle to get excited about doing myself (and no, that is not an invitation for any of them reading this forum to contact me - you'll only be told to go forth along with the rest of them! Save yourself the normally international phone bill!)

 

The conversation normally goes along the lines of:

Spammer: You haven't got many links (or vaguely-English words to that effect).

Me: I know, I haven't done any link-building. I haven't had time and life is too short!

Spammer: We can do it for you.

Me: No thank you. I am more concerned about brand identity and I want to be fully accountable for anything posted in my company name. Wouldn't I look a bit foolish if someone challenged an opinion I never knew I either had or posted?!

Spammer: (Probably with a glazed looked) We can do it for you, etc, etc, etc.

 

In the wrong hands, the whole page rank thing has made link-building a shoddy commodity with no end of clueless opportunists jumping on the bandwagon and making money from abusing a client's brand.

 

The quicker it becomes less important to search engines the better. I just feel sorry for all those companies that will have to watch the wheels fall off their expensive SEO campaign they paid for in good faith!

You're spot on IanC, I get offered the whole SEO thing nearly every day, and that's my web design business site! Don't these idiots read?

 

What would be nice is an SEO version of Spamcop to report this sort of stuff

Don't these idiots read?

 

From the quality of emails I get from similar companies, I'm not sure if it is "Don't" or "Can't"!

 

Attention all spammers

 

It is 'SEO Copywriting', not 'SEO Copyrighting' -

 

Copyright - Protection of intellectual property (or 'stuff what I has made' if you prefer!)

Copywriting - Stringing a coherent sentence together as an absolute minimum! (Sorry Wizely - I know it is so very much more )

 

If you're going to the effort of trying to sell snow to eskimos by the medium of patronising email, get the basics right. It still won't get a response, but at least I will be deleting slightly more accurate spam!

I just had a call from an SEO firm.

The guy on the phone told me that my website isn't currently in the first 200 results and so no-one will be able to find it, but he could fix that and get me no1 on Google due to their 'special partnership'.

 

I asked him how he got my details if I can't be found on Google and he said from my website.

He seemed a litle pi$$ed off when I pointed out that firstly, if he could find my website then so could my customers and secondly that haven't a Google adwords account doesn't count as a 'special partnership'.

Oddly enough he hung up on me at that point.

Spamming works, buying links works if you don't want to be spammed don't run a link directory.

Spamming works, buying links works if you don't want to be spammed don't run a link directory.

 

Spamming and buying links is cheating, just like using tables and using a wysiwyg editor.

 

Either learn to do your "profession" properly or don't do it ...

 

I do my own seo for my sites and I stick to the "rules" that I don't want my website spammed, I don't want it banned from search engines. I have my link in signatures on forums, I have my link on directories and other techniques.

 

A client is paying you to increase their brand, not to spoil it by spamming and getting them banned. Bet you also use blackhat seo too ?

Life is cheating, and also in life in every profession there are problems. You just have to work your way around them.

 

If you look at the top sites owned by massive businesses you will see they all spam, they all buy links, no one cares about a few directory owners complaining on their forum they care about the traffic to their site being number one brings them.

 

All I am saying is it works

Spamming works, buying links works if you don't want to be spammed don't run a link directory.

That's hardly the right attitude to take, I'm disapointed in you

 

And give in to them? No way, the value that poeple get from my site far outweighs what the spammers do.

Not you as well.

 

I'm just sayin' there are issues which come with everything in life and the issues which come with running anything with PR is you get emailed and spammed a lot. These guys are just doing their jobs, and the reason they have jobs is because it works. Sure play games with them and make it as hard as possible but it is just a symptom of your success. Maybe you can make a bit of money selling links?

 

 

 

Does anyone else keep sayin# Im just sayin' after watching True Blood?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lazytycoon,

 

BlueDreamers point was that he gets hit by irrelevant sites. whether you think that spamming gets people to link back to your site is not the issue.

 

The point is that irrelevant links are pointless and do not help your SEO, therefore whats the point of annoying people and damaging your companies reputation for no good reason!!!

Neil, the point is that they do help SEO and are therefore worthwhile. At the end of the day a link is a link, the higher the PR the better, sure high relevance helps as well but one or the other is desirable. The secondary point is very very few people care if a company is annoying webmasters they care about value and previous customers experiences.

I have not as much as experience as a lot of people on this forum, but what I do know is from my own experience and own site. I only deal with quality and relevent links, usually with a decent PR and this tactic has done me well. My site only has a few hundred links and I see sites that have thousands of links way below mine.

 

I have also heard a lot of other SEO experts with different opinions and think that SEO is an area where there are no dead cert proven guidlines.

 

I also disagree with you view that big companies spam. I personally get lots of spam from Russian women wanting to marry me, or people pretending to be banks. The only occasion I get spam from big companies is when I have dealt with them and then allowed them to forward me information.

 

Personally I think from the amount you get out of sending irrelevent spams, could be better time spent elsewhere.

@ Lazytycoon - neil0wen's point about irrelevant sites is spot on.

 

You're right in saying that "it's to be expected" though, that's part and parcel of running a links site and the unfortunate existance of the "SEO" industry. However, any self respecting professional SEO would be targetting link directories very carefully and not blanket spamming every one they can find. I have had many relevant sites submitted by SEO's, and because they were on topic they got accepted, no problem.

 

Despite putting highly visible warnings on submission pages advising submitters what types of site are, and are not accepted, they still persist. Maybe they all come from the far east and can't read English?

 

Oh, and one more thing, there are no external links on the site, becasue all external links run through a click tracker so that valuable "link juice" or whatever thay call it is devalued anyway - but there again the submitters probably never look

Edited October 30, 200917 yr by BlueDreamer

Neils point on irrelevant sites is not spot on at all, in fact its unqualified and dangerous to anyone looking for info. Take a look at the most competitive keywords and see how relevant their back links are. Example - That is one of the hottest keywords around.

 

Big companies do spam, I can't find the links now but a few months ago Barclays participated in some article spamming of their press release and the top adult toy sites are on all sort of crazy directories which aren't relevant at all.

 

These people are submitting 100s of links a day, actually it's probably all done by robots who don't even look at your site.

 

These spammers may also be spamming dedicated sites which are there only to act as links to the client site as to not pollute the client site. Its a big complicated game and playing nice doesn't work in the most profitable niches. The relevant sites want your money or the high PR sites want relevance, best way to find some good links is to spam and pray. After all being #1 with 1m spammy links surely sits you in a stronger pos than with 1000 ok links.

 

 

 

 

 

We'll have to disagree on a few points then

 

Isn't the whole sorry scenario a symptom of what Google has created, and all the ways people are manipulating things for their own advantage?

 

I'm not surprised corporates are employing spamming techniques, knowing how Barclays work (I have 1st hand experience) they are very motivated by profit at any cost.

 

Here's looking forward to the day when Google ditches backlinks and PR from their equations

HAHA yea, lets disagree. I'm not saying its right by the way I am just saying it works.

 

I think where ever there is money to be made people will find away to abuse it. I think the PR or Relevance links are a good system as its not as easy to manipulate as meta tags etc. I do see the dedicated product/service and an info search becoming more and more segregated though

I do see the dedicated product/service and an info search becoming more and more segregated though

No doubt the Google boffins are working on a thing or two - we already have the ability to shuffle links around when logged in, you can bet your boots they're monitoring that very closelsy see see what users do.

 

If I had to forecast something I reckon the'd be working on giving the non-logged-in user the ability to filter results on the fly - eg "show only blog post in the results", or even "ignore blog pages" - I know you can do some filtering in the advanced search but having that ability to do that on the results pages would throw cat cat amongst the pidgeons and require a total rethink in terms of optimisation.

The thing is Andy's right that link-spamming does 'work' but so is everyone else saying that it's quality and relevance that matters. It's the tired old and much rehashed "1 top quality link is worth a 100 crap ones". But to get quality/ relevant links takes a whole lot more than just 'SEO' and isn't a mechanical process you can outsource on the cheap to India.

Doing things the 'right' way means massive benefits that 'SEO' can't deliver - things like credibility, a strong brand and conversions. 'SEO' is only a small part of a successful business strategy. The best SEO results come as a result of other techniques where the link is incidental and a bonus, not the aim.

 

And I just don't get how spam works? Does anyone ever respond to the illiterate, unwelcome and dodgy-as-hell-looking crap they send? And on blogs does anyone look in their Askimet-caught comments and think "Gosh I'll publish that auto-generated nonsensical mishmash of words that links to viagra rip-offs every other word?!!!

 

Edited October 30, 200917 yr by wizely

Doing things the 'right' way means massive benefits that 'SEO' can't deliver - things like credibility, a strong brand and conversions. 'SEO' is only a small part of a successful business strategy. The best SEO results come as a result of other techniques where the link is incidental and a bonus, not the aim.

Yes, but what if they use spam for their dedicated link sites. no one will know its for Jessops, and I doubt anyone really cares about that. Do you care if a company spams other sites??

I don't think you got me there... I wasn't talking about the spamming losing credibility (although it will a lot of the time) - I meant this kind of 'SEO' can only deliver, at best, higher rankings - not qualified traffic/credibility/trust/brand/community and all the other aspects of a truly successful business (except for SEO businesses of course). People's obsession with link building means they're largely missing the bigger picture - SEO is only part of how to get more business - there are more effective, more efficient and longer-lasting ways. The beauty of which is that, because they make business sense and provide people what they're looking for then they come with much better SEO benefits than running around dropping hundreds of links everywhere. Yes, both may work - but one is more vulnerable to algorithm changes, ranking penalties and is time spent ONLY for SEO which is a waste when you can boost SEO while building your image, engaging people and targeting the right potential customers etc.

And yes, if I actually saw Jessop spam everywhere then it would make me see them as cheap, desperate and they'd lose credibility. If they spam other unwilling companies then yeah I care because SEO and this mentality of link-building is wrecking large sections of the web and guiding people who don't know any better to follow suit.

 

I just wish people understood SEO, it's role in business and stopped trying to game Google at the expense of clutering the web with crap!

Great post

Nice thread

lol

... and of course forum spamming is just plain annoying too!

 

Apart from ironical effect, has the past three posts made the web a better place - No!

 

Out of this context would they make my brand look desperate and vacuous - probably!

This post has an interesting article from a SEO expert that argues that irrelevant linking is becoming pointless.

I got your point and yes there is more to an online biz than rankings but in the most part without rankings there isn't a business. Spamming is easy and cheap, if you do it correctly most people won't even know the core is participating in these schemes.

 

The point is that spamming works, there are ways to stop it effecting the main business and even if a company is spamming most people won't know or care about it.

 

Will spamming work forever? Yes. If something works it will be abused. Sure the link spam at the moment might not be but we will still set up a lot of sites to link back to the core and when that doesnt work whatever the new thing that does work will be spammed.

Will a business who only spam and don't worry about customers or other advertising streams be successful? Maybe, but probably not for long because customer experience matters. There are a lot of impulse purchasers who buy from the top site but more and more people are shopping around.

 

I don't even know if we are arguing here or what here, we have agreed spamming works for rankings and agree its not the only way to build a business but it is certainly a useful tool.

We're not arguing! I think we do agree (I hate spam but it does work to a degree). I think the only thing I'd say to people is that if you've got no business without SEO then your business strategy is too shallow, highly vulnerable and inefficient. Yes, for certain businesses SEO is the most important source of customers, but it's certainly not for so many others. For example I do zero dedicated 'link-building' but still get customers from organic searches but they only account for about 20% of my customers (and trust me I'm busy!). For me, these customers are like a 'free bonus'.

Yep, +1 don't only depend on rankings, don't depend on anything. But if you did get to #1 for copywriting you might have enough work for 20 Wizelys, I guess it all has to do with your business model in the end and that is the business owners decision.

I was chatting with one of my clients last week and he was telling me about some 'SEO specialist' that emailed and phoned him about the site I did for him, saying basically it was crap in terms of SEO and wasn't found in Google etc., he forwarded me this guy's email and I replied to him detailing all the things that he said was basically a load of poo and giving examples why. I also noted this 'SEO specialist' has a dodgy site marker against him from Google due to malware and such being hosted on it and also he is nowhere to be seen for SEO keywords/phrases on Google... People like that make me sick TBH. It really boils my blood when these rip off merchants try to con money out of unsuspecting consumers.

I just had a call from an SEO firm.

The guy on the phone told me that my website isn't currently in the first 200 results and so no-one will be able to find it, but he could fix that and get me no1 on Google due to their 'special partnership'.

 

I asked him how he got my details if I can't be found on Google and he said from my website.

He seemed a litle pi$$ed off when I pointed out that firstly, if he could find my website then so could my customers and secondly that haven't a Google adwords account doesn't count as a 'special partnership'.

Oddly enough he hung up on me at that point.

 

As an SEO firm ourselves we get tons of calls each day from people trying to hard sell SEO. We once got offered to have our website "submitted" to Google for £200... yeah sure

I think SEO people work on better sites. Because only serious and professional parties assign them projects for their sites. Most of the time it has been observed that such sites have high page ranks and such sites are really have a better position to improve the your site or directory prominence.

 

So I think it is not spamming attempts. If not what is the purpose of your directory.

As an SEO firm ourselves we get tons of calls each day from people trying to hard sell SEO. We once got offered to have our website "submitted" to Google for £200... yeah sure

lol... I'll do it for £150

I guess it all has to do with your business model in the end and that is the business owners decision.

Never a truer statement Lots of ways to do things...

This post has caused a stir hey!

 

The thing is, if you run a directory you will get spam as you have experienced. Its a shame, especially as you have spent years getting it right. The trouble is for these companies they can tell a client they have gained 500 links instead of spending a day getting 3 very strong links. Unfortunately, these guys see your site as an opportunity.

It's a bit like having a high street shop selling magazines and asking only those who want to buy and not browse can come in when its pretty rainy outside, you can put the sign up but they will still come in!

 

You are of course much better off taking a more measured approach to link building. Creating something that people actually want to link to in your niche is a good start. On a site of mine I added a nice little tool and told other web masters about it. If they don't want the bother of recreating it they will just link to mine.

You can do this with great informative copy too.

 

HOWEVER, these guys will still spam because as of today, it still helps the larger tapestry of link authority and they do muddy the waters for everyone else who does ethical link building.

The thing is, if you run a directory you will get spam as you have experienced. Its a shame, especially as you have spent years getting it right.

Tell me about it I do expect some spam submissions, but it's the sheer volume that makes me angry, and when you start getting kiddie pron submissions it does start to get very serious (btw those have been reported).