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DNGR.Tyler

Could I get some feedback? car hire/rental company, new design

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Please drop me any feedback on this design.

The concept is the letters J, M, A shaped to form wave crests.

I don't like the idea of following other car rentals "design trends", the ones with car keys / tires / gears / etc somewhere on their logos. I don't think a logo should tell people exactly what the company does anyway. The company name is long enough and tells enough what it does.

The company is based in Bali, hence warm beach and waves as the idea.

JMA_2_a.jpg

http://image.ibb.co/h9pmQa/JMA_2_a.jpgJMA_2_b.jpg

http://image.ibb.co/f5a4BF/JMA_2_b.jpg

post-70665-0-51805300-1490047273_thumb.jpg

post-70665-0-39243000-1490047274_thumb.jpg

Edited by DNGR.Tyler

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The concept is the letters J, M, A shaped to form wave crests.

I don't like the idea of following other car rentals "design trends", the ones with car keys / tires / gears / etc somewhere on their logos. I don't think a logo should tell people exactly what the company does anyway. The company name is long enough and tells enough what it does.

The company is based in Bali, hence I use warm beach and waves as the idea.

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Just like the other one, unless you had said the waves represent the letter JMA I'd never had guessed. And once again, the words are too small to read.

 

Why do you even need a logo?

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Just like the other one, unless you had said the waves represent the letter JMA I'd never had guessed. And once again, the words are too small to read.

 

Why do you even need a logo?

 

Why does a car rental company need a logo? Why do you ask that? What if the company decides to expand its services, rent properties, etc. Then with my design, I could easily just change the logo text (ex: JMABALIRENTHOUSE.COM).

I think every brand needs a logo.

 

- A logo is a flag, a signature, and escutcheon, a street sign.

- A logo does not sell (directly), it identifies.

- A logo is rarely a description of a business.

- A logo is less important than the product it signifies; what it represents is more important than what it looks like.

- And the subject matter of a logo can be almost anything.

 

The wave crests don't necessarily need to be too clearly read as JMA.

 

The FedEx logo for example:

fedex2.jpg

If people look at it for the first time at a glance, they don't see anything but "FedEx". If they pay more attention / look closely, there is an arrow, the negative space between the letters E and x, which could easily mean "moving things forward"..

Y3ppgE7P4F-6.png

JMA_2_e.jpg

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That's what you think. It's not what the average punter thinks.

 

I couldn't care less what logo you use. If I'm searching on google or using some other online service to look for car rental in Bali I won't even see a logo until I land on the site. At which point I'm already on the customer journey and my focus will be in the site content not the header. Do some eye tracking or heatmap testing and you will discover the logo is rarely even registered. All of which means you can use what ever you want as a logo, nobody cares except you and the business owner.

 

Note also that you will need to have the company name in the site header as well as the text you currently have is too small to read, especially on a phone which is what most holiday makers will be using.

 

Consider also that most holidaymakers will only ever use the service once. Which means you don't need to establish a brand identity.

Edited by fisicx

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Consider also that most holidaymakers will only ever use the service once. Which means you don't need to establish a brand identity.

 

Even small companies need to establish some kind of brand identity. Even though they are far from a small company, Europcar can be recognised from a mile away at any airport or harbour, that's how you know where to pick your car up from. It's the same logo you've seen on the website, on your confirmation email, and on the side of the cars outside. You have to consider the whole user journey and not just the one online, and I'd say this is more important if your customers are coming from different parts of the world, where your content most likely won't make sense.

 

Most of the pick-up points for rental cars are in busy places, where people have limited time, so plain text won't work in this surrounding, and it will likely turn into a frustrating experience. If I book a train online and need to find it, I'll often look for the logo on my confirmation email as a starting point, regardless if they are a well-established company or not. These things aren't designed accidentally.

 

It may not seem like a big deal when people are in the real world, as they've left the site now, but then you start getting bad reviews on things like Tripadvisor the entire process can have a big effect on future business. Small businesses abroad utilise Trip Advisor heavily, something like this could be a real set back, and it's avoidable by making the offline experience as good as the online.

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Yes it is true.

 

How much real world testing have you done on this? It's something I test continually and a logo makes almost no difference. If you want one that's fine, but not having one is also fine.

 

In this thread as long as the name of the business is above the door or on the billboard people will find you. A recognisable image can aid identification but the actual image you use isn't important as people look for general shapes not the details.

 

I built a website for a car hire company in Hawaii. We discussed logos and imagery at length. In the end they just used the name of the company and colour. It has never been an issue. And when I fly to Germany I look for the words Avis. I know it's red and that's the visual clue, not the logo. In fact I don't even know what their logo is.

 

I'm sure you will dissagree and that's fine. I just know after many years of testing that a logo is far less important than people think it is. Brand identity yes, logo not so.

Edited by fisicx

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And when I fly to Germany I look for the words Avis. I know it's red and that's the visual clue, not the logo. In fact I don't even know what their logo is.

That's their logo, it doesn't have to be an image or pattern to be considered a logo. No offence but your real-world testing isn't going to be accurate, you simply don't have the resources to see how people interpret your client's brand outside of the web, especially to a large enough degree that you can say that a logo doesn't matter, this would actually be very difficult to test. What I do know is brand, iconography and typography already have centuries of research behind them.

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The human brain is very adept at remembering visual patterns. The logo can be a word pattern or whatever - you're more likely to remember the pattern of the letters visually than reading the word out itself.

 

Everybody the world over recognises McDonald's global arches logo, you could be driving down a highway in a foreign country with a hungry child in the back and you see that logo in the distance you instantly know what it is.

If you think logos don't matter then go and tell that to the the marketing experts at the company who have made themselves one of the worlds most recognised brands in part due to their logo and usage of it.

 

Ask any marketing expert and they will tell you that brand is crucial and a big (if not the biggest) contributor to brand recognition is the logo.

Edited by rbrtsmith

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What I do know is brand, iconography and typography already have centuries of research behind them.

yes, this is my point.

 

It appears that we disagree on what a logo actually is. Branding can use just letters and colours. That doesn't necessarily make it a logo.

 

As an aside, the McDonald's where I live no longer has the Golden Arches, all they now have on the store front is the name.

 

Look at the websites and outlets for all the major car hire companies, they all use the name of the company. Words not images. Same with most other big brands. There may be some graphical element but that supports the letters being used.

Edited by fisicx

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A logo by definition is literally a mark or symbol that represents your business (this includes just 'text' that is formatted is a unique and memorable way), it has nothing to do with branding, but the human brain remembers symbols or marks much faster than simple words, this goes back to the neanderthals writing (creating symbols) in caves telling stories and can be seen to evolve throughout history from hieroglyphics in egypt to branding cows in cowboy america.

 

Branding is something you create and can control to a certain degree, you can find out and even to some extent control what emotes your customers but you cannot guarantee anything, branding is the perception of your business as a whole, creating branding is important because unless you control it, your branding will not match your target audience, it is for this reason I say that branding is so important, even if you do not create and control the branding yourself, you have branding, it does not have to be a physical or digital product, it is simply any experience you have with that company.

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...but the human brain remembers symbols or marks much faster than simple words

If this is the case why do so many brands not use symbols or marks? In the context of this thread, all the major car hire companies use words not symbols. As to the supermarkets, DIY stores, amazon, ebay, fashion brands and a whole lot more. Even the delivery compaies use words and letters (see FedEx example above).

 

I say that branding is so important

I agree. I'm just suggesting you don't need a logo (like the JMA one) in your branding. Use colours and fonts and kerning and shape to brand the name of the business.

 

Just like in the main content on this website: http://www.elitechandelier.com/

Edited by fisicx

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Hmm this blew up as normal :D

 

Back to the OP: I love the colours and the waves, even though I did miss the JMA in the waves, might just be how my brain interprets the design but a side point, waves on a beach I would imagine is why most people head to Bali and definately is in the sun holiday car rental market, would look a bit odd in Moscow lol. One thing I would suggest though is not making the domain 'officially' part of the icon (or logo or whatever people want to call it). My reason being you can then have the icon above, to the side or embedded like you have it for flexibility. Many big brands have logo variations to allow each to be selected for orientation, application and marketing purpose (e.g. on the side of a vehicle), see Airwalk as a prime example, their icon little house arrow thing remains even when the rest moves around. In this case the JMA waves on the beach is your icon, the rest can change. Perfect if the business did expand to say holiday lettings in Bali else you might be trying to fit 'jmaholidaylettingsinbali.com' in that space ;)

 

As to the 'should we have an icon or use just words' debate, it really does depend on the situation. To me a logo must be designed with reuse in mind, a good test I find is blur the logo and see if you could recognise the brand, think person wearing glasses in the rain :D

Edited by BrowserBugs

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If this is the case why do so many brands not use symbols or marks? In the context of this thread, all the major car hire companies use words not symbols. As to the supermarkets, DIY stores, amazon, ebay, fashion brands and a whole lot more. Even the delivery compaies use words and letters (see FedEx example above).

 

I agree. I'm just suggesting you don't need a logo (like the JMA one) in your branding. Use colours and fonts and kerning and shape to brand the name of the business.

 

Just like in the main content on this website: http://www.elitechandelier.com/

 

They do have symbols or marks, they have things like custom fonts or kerning etc, lots of different ways to make text recognisable, the funny thing is that the sites you suggest as 'text' are not just text, they use techniques like figure ground and blatant graphic design tricks to send their messages, Amazon for example has an arrow that goes from A to Z, referring to delivery of a product, fed-ex has a hidden forward arrow, to denote forwarding.. etc

 

What do you mean the main content of Elite Chandelier? The logo is on every page, its on the left, if you are referring to the type on the homepage, that text is not intended as a logo, it's intended for information as to who they are and what they do, but you can't do that on every piece of medium you create, that is when a logo is important.

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The point I was trying to make is that they all use words not symbols.

 

The JMA logo in this thread doesn't use words (except for the unreadable blur below the waves). Same as elite chandelier - the words are the focus not the bits round the edges. Have you split tested the site with and without the symbols? You say the logo is important but do you know for certain that this is the case. On the last split test I did over a number of months on a site with decent traffic having a logo made no difference at all. This may not be the case all the time but take a look down the high street and just about every store use words in their branding. They may have additional graphical elements but the major part of the branding is the name of the business - just like amazon.

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The point I was trying to make is that they all use words not symbols.

 

I still don't think you understand what a logo is, as words can be a logo, the 'memorable' mark is how it is presented, it does not have to be an abstract image,

 

 

 

The JMA logo in this thread doesn't use words (except for the unreadable blur below the waves). Same as elite chandelier - the words are the focus not the bits round the edges.

 

No, the 'focus' as you put it, is on how it looks as a whole, that text on it's own is not a unique font and the test on it's own is hardly memorable, but include other elements to make it stand out, to make it 'unique' then it's a mark.

 

 

You say the logo is important but do you know for certain that this is the case.

 

Yes, and I have millions of years of human evolution and hundreds of years of research and real-life research to fall back on.

 

 

On the last split test I did over a number of months on a site with decent traffic having a logo made no difference at all.

 

YOU did, and YOUR experiment(s), your experiments hardly supersede millions of years of evolution and hundreds of years of research, your pitiful (no trying to be offensive just trying to use some perspective) experiment means nothing in the wider circle of the world and even if it did do something, there are thousands of variables that you would not have accounted for that could have been the reason for any type of change, not least your lack in understanding as to graphic design in general.

 

 

They may have additional graphical elements but the major part of the branding is the name of the business - just like amazon.

 

Again, missing the point entirely, it is what it is as a whole, not in part, otherwise, you could never be different from the competition or to stand out, what you are saying is that it is SO pointless that there is no need to use a different font from the competition, so what is the point in a font? There is no need for colour to stand out, so why not just do everything in black and white? Would lead to a very boring and uninspiring view of capitalist systems as there would be no need to stand out from the competition, to put YOUR MARK in place to help you be remembered from the guy who makes the same things you do.

 

this has very little to do with branding, but it has everything to do with thought processes for businesses, to innovate and inspire to be different, this guy is great, have a watch https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action

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I was, usually when people refer to a 'logo' they are referring to both in general unless otherwise specified, but to separate them, every business needs one or the other (but not always both). Think of the Nike tick, Shell, WWF, Mercedes or Adidas for example.

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I was, usually when people refer to a 'logo' they are referring to both in general unless otherwise specified, but to separate them, every business needs one or the other (but not always both). Think of the Nike tick, Shell, WWF, Mercedes or Adidas for example.

 

Bingo :D

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I was, usually when people refer to a 'logo' they are referring to both in general unless otherwise specified, but to separate them, every business needs one or the other (but not always both). Think of the Nike tick, Shell, WWF, Mercedes or Adidas for example.

Indeed. But the OP and most small business aren't global and shouldn't have a just symbol to represent the company.

 

So have the three waves if you want but do as suggested and put the name of the company to the right. People might remember the three waves but they will look for the name as confirmation.

Edited by fisicx

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Well, I deeply appreciate your creative ideas for the logo. Despite impressive imagination, it took me more than 10s to visualize the JMA forming as the figure of the wave. If you want word that visualizes the image, it should be displayed more simply. Moreover, is the information of "the company is in Bali" what the customers care about your company? I do not find it convincing to feel the urge to look for your company's product.

But overall, I prettily enjoy how you combine the colors for the logo.

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Thanks for the feedback/suggestion, really appreciated.

 

I simplified the logo. It now has 2 colours only, removed the "beach", added 1 more wave crest to the right to make it more clearer.

 

Since I couldn't edit the first post, here is the new identity:

 

http://image.ibb.co/j8fy6F/JMA_3_b.jpg

JMA_3_b.jpg

 

http://image.ibb.co/b2Lbtv/JMA_3_c.jpg

JMA_3_c.jpg

 

http://image.ibb.co/diPQmF/JMA_3_d.jpg

JMA_3_d.jpg

 

Please tell me what you think on this one on this thread:

http://www.webdesignerforum.co.uk/topic/86299-new-simplified-logo-design-for-a-car-hire-firm-what-do-you-think/

post-70665-0-37883800-1490361473_thumb.jpg

post-70665-0-25272100-1490361474_thumb.jpg

post-70665-0-80155900-1490361474_thumb.jpg

Edited by DNGR.Tyler

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