http://twitter.com/#!/FocusLabLLC/status/147384854307274754

 

Expect to see a lot more designers and agencies following suit

 

Especially as IE will be getting auto-updates from Jan 2012 - http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/12/15/microsoft-to-launch-auto-updates-for-internet-explorer/

As I understand it only out updates on XP or newer. If so that will still leave a fair few people who may use an older version of IE.

http://twitter.com/#!/FocusLabLLC/status/147384854307274754

 

Expect to see a lot more designers and agencies following suit

 

Especially as IE will be getting auto-updates from Jan 2012 - http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/12/15/microsoft-to-launch-auto-updates-for-internet-explorer/

 

I don't want IE9 or IE10 on my old XP pc or on the even older WIN98SE pc, I'm sure they will slow down (XP) or crash (WIN98SE). I use them for backups and testing IE7 and IE6 and I don't want auto-updates.

 

This page http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/internet-explorer/products/ie-9/system-requirements with IE9 system requirements doesn't mention XP or WIN98SE.

I don't want IE9 or IE10 on my old XP pc or on the even older WIN98SE pc, I'm sure they will slow down (XP) or crash (WIN98SE). I use them for backups and testing IE7 and IE6 and I don't want auto-updates.

 

This page http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/internet-explorer/products/ie-9/system-requirements with IE9 system requirements doesn't mention XP or WIN98SE.

Thats what I was saying. Why should updates be forced by the people making the sites. I don't think this is fair.

I'm sure IE9 will work fine on XP. It will obviously not use hardware rendering but apart from that, it should be fine. It's not entirely impossible either that XP users will receive a lightweight version of the browser.

 

It seems, whatever MS do, it's wrong. People were up in arms that IE9 wasn't on XP, now you guys are moaning about automatic updates?

 

I don't get it.

Pretty what I've been doing for a while now, its stipulated in my contracts that any remedial work needed on ie6/7 is charged per hour.

 

As for it not being fair, it's not fair that a client expects the same thing from a browser that is ten years old as they do from a modern browser. If I weigh up all the pro's and cons I'm happy ms has taken this stance. Individual users still using ie6 either are lazy or don't know how to update.

I can't keep clinging on to old browsers. I've never supported IE6/7 and next year I won't be supporting IE8.

 

Times have to move on.

As noted above, some users have a special reason for not wanting auto-updates, and Microsoft have built in user choice.

 

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/12/15/microsoft-to-launch-auto-updates-for-internet-explorer/

"Gavin acknowledges that some organizations and customers “may want to opt-out and set their own upgrade pace”, noting that Microsoft is committed to striking the right balance for consumers and enterprises. “The Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 Automatic Update Blocker toolkits prevent automatic upgrades of IE for Windows customers who do not want them”, adds Gavin. “Of course, we firmly believe that IE9 is the most compelling browser for business customers, and we want them to make the decision to upgrade at their convenience.”

 

Furthermore, if you have previously declined installations of IE8 or IE9 through Windows Update you won’t be automatically updated. You can also uninstall updates and receive support for the version of IE that came with your copy of Windows. All future versions of IE will have an in-built feature to opt-out of automatic upgrading."

 

Lots of comments here:-

http://windowsteamblog.com/ie/b/ie/archive/2011/12/15/ie-to-start-automatic-upgrades-across-windows-xp-windows-vista-and-windows-7.aspx

 

Sven said:-

"Hopefully you are conveying this information to everyone in the world who writes web pages as well. There are still one or two out there that don't work right in IE9. Less than a year ago my company's timekeeping system didn't work in IE9. The menu selection tabs on the left side of the form were not functioning, so you couldn't get to any page but the default. It wasn't an in house thing either, but a reputable third party solution that did time keeping. You may have heard of it, Deltek. (Changed jobs so don't know if that is fixed). I also can't dispute charges on American Express's site in IE9. They use a frame that doesn't scale or scroll, so you can't get to the button to submit after putting in all the information. This was recently. Sadly both worked fine in Safari."

Edited December 16, 201114 yr by Wickham

I can't keep clinging on to old browsers. I've never supported IE6/7 and next year I won't be supporting IE8.

 

Times have to move on.

 

IE9 is not available on XP. Cutting out a huge chunk of market there.

 

 

Turn Windows updates off and you don't get put in the auto update cycle and can keep your old IE6 browser. Also, if any of you are on Chrome, did you notice that auto updates? (And you can't turn that off)

Edited December 16, 201114 yr by Georgew

As I understand it only out updates on XP or newer. If so that will still leave a fair few people who may use an older version of IE.

If you take China out of the equation then IE6 usage in Europe has nearly dropped below the 1% mark (according to Statcounter Global stats), and IE7 usage is dwindling very fast and should be well into low single figures sometime next year. Auto updates may well reduce these numbers even quicker.

 

Of course there will be some organisations will still be dragging their heels and using IE6/7 - I have little sympathy for them, IE7 was released in 2006 - that's 6 years ago - that's plenty of time for their management to sanction system updates.

 

You don't see Ford still "supporting" the Ford Cortina

Reading what Wickham says it looks like we are still going to see IE in various guises for quite a while yet.

 

I can see both sides to be honest. If people cling to outdated systems too long it inhibits progress, but I can also see why some people do in certain circumstances.

If I recall the announcement correctly from MS, XP will only be upgraded automatically to IE8, while all newer platforms will get the IE9/10 releases.

 

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer-Will-Update-Automatically-in-2012-862857/

 

It also doesn't include anything before XP so all the lazy companies with IT departments that still use Windows NT/2000 won't be screwed either.

snip

 

I feel i have to reply to the part now edited out of your original post.

 

My apologies, i'm normally the first person to bring up the issues with government departments and large scale organisations using IE6 for their apps.

 

These sort of companies and outdated IT infrastructures in the government are draining resources from our economy at a staggering rate.

I used to work for a government agency and their outdated IT infrastructure was costing them a bomb. There's nothing more inefficient than refusing to update your systems, especially when they're reaching the ten year (and more!) mark.

 

It used to take me a good 45 minuets just to get my computer to a functioning state. In which time all I've done is sit in my chair and drink tea. That same 45 minuets on a good system and chances are you would have prep'd all my documents, answered all my emails and got on with the days work.

Companies and the government need to wake up and start updating systems as it's costing them more every day they refuse.

 

Thing is, this really doesn't affect my work as a web developer as i'm not designing sites for people in these companies and government departments as they shouldn't be using their haggard old and IE6 to browse web sites anyway. They should be doing some damn work!

Edited December 17, 201114 yr by MikeChipshop

Nice rant Mike!

 

Feel better?

 

Even IE7 sucks too - with the latest Microsoft news I'm considering ditching worrying about that. I normally make sites IE7 friendly but it frustrates me because I'm having to hold back some of my ideas just to cater for people who refuse to get with the times!

Edited December 17, 201114 yr by oakleaves

Nice rant Mike!

 

Feel better?

 

Even IE7 sucks too - with the latest Microsoft news I'm considering ditching worrying about that. I normally make sites IE7 friendly but it frustrates me because I'm having to hold back some of my ideas just to cater for people who refuse to get with the times!

 

I've just finished a Christmas rush of work from some of the larger internet brands and not one of them wanted support for anything lower than IE8.

 

It was at this point i decided as of 2012 i am no longer supporting IE6/8 not even with a surcharge. If you're browsing on such outdated technology, then assume you wont be getting the best experience end of story.

Fair play. Wish everyone would just convert to Google chrome. That would make my life easier.

 

That's why nobody gets bogged down with what version of Chrome they are on, it's just 'Chrome'!

 

Google have already been doing what Microsoft are just getting around to doing.

Edited December 17, 201114 yr by oakleaves

Updates won't be forced if they've already been declined, so your dev machines are safe.

 

Google have already been doing what Microsoft are just getting around to doing.

 

Exactly where MS want to be but you just know there's some idiot in the EU trying to see of they can bring a lawsuit for them being 'anti competitive'. Look at all the time wasting and fines they got for bundling WMP because some idiot, somewhere wanted to use Realplayer (where is it now?!)

Sounds like a good idea, but then again; wont you lose business but refusing to support IE 6/8.

 

I know that it can be a major pain sometimes but not everyone understands that they need to update their browser to a newer version or even a new kind.

 

Regards,

Michael James Swan

Yeh, we know all that Michael, try reading the thread again

Sounds like a good idea, but then again; wont you lose business but refusing to support IE 6/8.

 

I know that it can be a major pain sometimes but not everyone understands that they need to update their browser to a newer version or even a new kind.

 

Regards,

Michael James Swan

 

I will support IE8.

 

I know what you mean by not everyone understands. However, the % of user using IE6/7 that I'm likely to be targeting is so low that it's not worth the clients extra costs for my time.

 

Of course, as I've mentioned on this forum before, this is flexible. Last year i worked on a community site for a small village in Norfolk as a pro-gratis job. The local population was entirely made up of silver surfers browsing on old Win 2000 / XP machine using IE6. In this case i built in IE6 support without a second thought.

 

The thing is, I'm completely capable of supporting IE6 in my builds and don't generally have any issues any way. My issue now is I think this has just gone on way to long now and it's getting stupid.

 

Of course, like i mentioned above, there are exceptions. But any decent developer will know the target audience and devices. I've just started a build and design for an African media company where the majority of users will be browsing on a mobile device. This means that the site will be geared toward those devices with fall back in place for other devices and users. Users of IE6/7 will still be able to use any sites i create after the new year they just wont get the full experience that those using modern browsers get.

I edited it out to stop the can of worms.

 

It costs them right now, but it will cost them so much more to have new systems built. Something the budgets won't allow for. Please note I am not supporting this.

I edited it out to stop the can of worms.

 

It costs them right now, but it will cost them so much more to have new systems built. Something the budgets won't allow for. Please note I am not supporting this.

 

Haha nah it's ok i wasn't having a dig at you, just felt it was something i needed to say.

 

New systems are a fraction of the cost of what they are losing in productivity everyday.