September 22, 201114 yr In this case I'm using the term Graphic Designer aimed at designers who create web interfaces without coding them personally. There's a lot of mixed emotions/opinions on the should they or shouldn't they debate on the subject. My main skillset is Graphic Design but I've come to teach myself how to use code (XHTML/CSS/jQuery etc) to be a better designer. I still leave the hardcore backend to developers though. Edited September 22, 201114 yr by dawntwist
September 23, 201114 yr I'd say it's probably a good idea to learn all of the skills on a really low level at least, especially if you're working with developers all of the time. The same goes the other way as well - developers should know the design process and the complexities of it. It's just better for relationships when you speak the same language. Also, I just like messing around with code.
September 23, 201114 yr Must you? No. Ideally, should you? Yes. That's the core difference. They don't have to....but in an ideal scenario they should have at least a basic understanding. If you want to leave the code to someone else that's fine in my book. But HTML/CSS aren't exactly difficult so being able to code can only be of advantage.
September 23, 201114 yr I personally don't think that you need to know how to code to design a website, I mean a graphic designer doesn't need to know how to use a printing press to know how to produce artwork for print. So as long as they understand the principles of designing for web then pass it on to someone who can code it then I don't see an issue with it. The only problem that I have really with the idea is if the graphic designer uses a wysiwyg editor to avoid coding.
September 23, 201114 yr I think this is a bit of a problem at the moment as most companies expect you to be able to code. Which in my opinion defeats the title - Graphic designer. as they should be able to solely focus on doing the Graphics. Just my 2pence
September 23, 201114 yr should an F1 driver know how to fix his car? Probably not but it always helps if he understands how it works, what is possible and can talk to the people that do.
September 23, 201114 yr should an F1 driver know how to fix his car? Probably not but it always helps if he understands how it works, what is possible and can talk to the people that do. This reminds me of the classic Tom Cruise film, 'Days of Thunder', where when asked how the car handles and feels and how to improve it, the character just gives a blank look lol! It is certainly an advantage if designers understand code and vice versa, especially when freelancing as you haven't got that guy sitting next to you to ask. A basic understanding makes the work load flow much easier.
September 23, 201114 yr Yes. Without knowing how to code and seeing the structure of the page as they design it, they're drawing a picture of a website, not designing one. "Web design is product design. Drawing a picture of the product is not designing the product. Web design is experience design. Drawing a picture of on-screen content or mechanism behaviors is not designing the experience. The functioning html/css (and sometimes JavaScript) is the design. Graphic design is often important in web design, but only as one component of web design’s requirements. If you stop at the .psd you’ve stopped well before midpoint in the design. The graphic designer who lacks html/css skill is insufficiently prepared as a web designer. A designer who lacks competence should address that issue rather than seek refuge within embarrassing debate." - Andy Rutledge
September 23, 201114 yr I studied Product Design, I disagree that Web Design is Product Design. Product Design involves the design of a tangible product, something physical. Sure, one can lead to the other, vice versa, and you use many of the same principles, I know that as well as anybody. But web design is not Product Design. When I designed products, such as my final year project, the process and detail put into the product is completely different. Edit: I suppose the easiest way of putting it is that web design is an offshoot of product design. But it is not actual product design. Edited September 23, 201114 yr by brightonmike
September 23, 201114 yr Yes. Without knowing how to code and seeing the structure of the page as they design it, they're drawing a picture of a website, not designing one. "Web design is product design. Drawing a picture of the product is not designing the product. Web design is experience design. Drawing a picture of on-screen content or mechanism behaviors is not designing the experience. The functioning html/css (and sometimes JavaScript) is the design. Graphic design is often important in web design, but only as one component of web design’s requirements. If you stop at the .psd you’ve stopped well before midpoint in the design. The graphic designer who lacks html/css skill is insufficiently prepared as a web designer. A designer who lacks competence should address that issue rather than seek refuge within embarrassing debate." - Andy Rutledge I think you've just nailed it. Well & truly. I would never use a web designer that doesn't at least know html and css. Even though I'd never ask the designer to write up the html and css. If they don't understand how writing up structure via mark up works, there probably not going to produce something I'm going to like!
September 23, 201114 yr Have you ever tried to make a website from a PSD made by somebody who didn't understand code? I have, and it wasn't much fun I can tell you!
September 23, 201114 yr Hang on. The question is being twisted badly here. It is "Should web designers code". It is not "Should web designers know how to code". I'm not being pedantic, they are two entirely different questions with two very different answers.
September 23, 201114 yr Mike you just twisted it totally the thread is "Should Graphic Designers code" answer is No. Your either a web designer or a graphic designer even in todays world I don't know 1 single designer who knows the ins and outs of both trades, not even me and thats saying something.
September 23, 201114 yr Hang on. The question is being twisted badly here. It is "Should web designers code". It is not "Should web designers know how to code". I'm not being pedantic, they are two entirely different questions with two very different answers. Actually it is "Should Graphic Designers code?". Is there a distinction between a Graphic Designer and a Web Designer? A graphic designer may design for a wide range of media whereas a web designer may design specifically for the web.
September 23, 201114 yr See us Cardiff lads know the score. We lead the way in design and the rest of you follow in our wake
September 23, 201114 yr I'd give renaissance 10 +1's for this quote if I could.. "Graphic design is often important in web design, but only as one component of web design’s requirements. If you stop at the .psd you’ve stopped well before midpoint in the design. The graphic designer who lacks html/css skill is insufficiently prepared as a web designer. A designer who lacks competence should address that issue rather than seek refuge within embarrassing debate." - Andy Rutledge Edited September 23, 201114 yr by oakleaves
September 23, 201114 yr OK to sum up: Should web designers code: NO Should web designers know how to code: YES
September 23, 201114 yr Spot on Skidz. You should know how, but whether you actually do or not, is up to you as the designer. Two different questions with two different answers. And if I see web design referred to as product design one more time....! Edited September 23, 201114 yr by brightonmike
September 23, 201114 yr OK to sum up: Should web designers code: NO Should web designers know how to code: YES Kind of..! OK to sum up: Should web graphic designers code: NO Should web graphic designers know how to code: YES
September 23, 201114 yr And if I see web design referred to as product design one more time....! Huh. why the aggression?!
September 23, 201114 yr Why should graphic designers know how to code. Does anyone know the difference between graphic and web designers AT ALL here? Drop quotes in all you like from whoever you like, but graphic design is not web design, web design is not graphic design. Edited September 23, 201114 yr by pandadoodle
September 23, 201114 yr I'm not being aggressive, I'm messing about. Sheesh... Ahh!! no, this is messing about!!
September 23, 201114 yr Why should graphic designers know how to code. Does anyone know the difference between graphic and web designers AT ALL here? Drop quotes in all you like from whoever you like, but graphic design is not web design, web design is not graphic design. Graphics designers who design for the web should know code. (or at least it would help the poor sod who has to work with the PSD's!) Graphic designers who design product packaging, not so much.. Edited September 23, 201114 yr by oakleaves
September 23, 201114 yr I don't think the term Graphic Designer needs to be used in this thread at all. They're two different disciplines. Oak - no matter how I come across, I am very very rarely drop dead serious on here I don't really do the whole getting angry thing on a forum!
September 23, 201114 yr Oak - no matter how I come across, I am very very rarely drop dead serious on here No worries mate!
September 23, 201114 yr By everyone definitions here the attached makes me an architect I like it. When can I move in?
September 23, 201114 yr By everyone definitions here the attached makes me an architect Comparing that to some of the drawings architects have handed me it would make you a bloody good one.
September 23, 201114 yr I like it. When can I move in? If you can afford the fee id imagine an email would be sent before end of business hours today, allowing you to move in whenever. Let me know and ill send you the key for a viewing
September 23, 201114 yr In this case I'm using the term Graphic Designer aimed at designers who create web interfaces without coding them personally. I studied Product Design, I disagree that Web Design is Product Design. Product Design involves the design of a tangible product, something physical. Product design isn't limited to tangible products anymore. A website or web application is a product, like any other document or piece of software. The design of software interfaces is an offshoot of the design of hardware interfaces - most of the same rules (eg Fitts' law) apply.
September 23, 201114 yr Sorry Chris your wrong. Why is it these days everyone who carries a title "web designer" or similar seems to think they can do it all I think its partly down because they can't get work in or be bothered to do any work, feeling the need to claim your industry or what you do is something else its idiotic to say the least. What you sell maybe a service with an end product (i.e the website) but in a traditional sense its no product in the commercial sense your talking a pile of poo. Everyone who can't design or get work in always seems a need to justify or introduce new buzz words to make them and the client feel what they are doing is right. Web design has more word play and trickery than a magicians back pocket
September 23, 201114 yr Renaissance, it doesn't work like that. You're misusing the term "product". When you talk about Product Design, you are not talking about Products in the broad sense of the term of anything that is a "product" to you or me. The "Product" in Product Design literally just means a physical, tangible item. Forget what the words means in the conventional sense. If Product Design was to your definition, then Product Design would surely be the all encompassing term for all design? But it's not, it's a specific practise that is seperate from other design practises. Edited September 23, 201114 yr by brightonmike
September 23, 201114 yr Renaissance, it doesn't work like that. You're misusing the term "product". When you talk about Product Design, you are not talking about Products in the broad sense of the term of anything that is a "product" to you or me. The "Product" in Product Design literally just means a physical, tangible item. Forget what the words means in the conventional sense. If Product Design was to your definition, then Product Design would surely be the all encompassing term for all design? But it's not, it's a specific practise that is seperate from other design practises. Amen +1
September 23, 201114 yr Kind of..! OK to sum up: Should web graphic designers code: NO Should web graphic designers know how to code: YES Why should graphic designers know how to code. Does anyone know the difference between graphic and web designers AT ALL here? Drop quotes in all you like from whoever you like, but graphic design is not web design, web design is not graphic design. Do I need to sum up even further :S When I talk about graphic designers, In my head I mean PRINT DESIGNERS When I talk about web designers, In my head I mean WEB DESIGNERS Should a WEB DESIGNER know the fundamentals of taking a PSD and converting it mark up. Yes of course, how the hell are they supposed to know there restrictions if they don't know how to move forward Should a graphic designer know how to code. No lol! Why would they care!
September 23, 201114 yr All these subject's can come under the umbrella of 'web design'. Web design encompasses many aspects. If not, they would not be on this forum surely? I think a lot of this debate has arisen because of how we all view certain terminology? When I talk about graphic designers, In my head I mean PRINT DESIGNERS That's exactly my point. We're getting into a debate because not everyone can agree on terminology and what it means (or should mean). You think that; somebody else may think it's something different entirely! Edited September 23, 201114 yr by oakleaves
September 23, 201114 yr Product Design is cut throat, web design/development is a far more accessible industry, and far easier to get into. If I could one day go back in to Product Design I would. Hopefully, I'll have saved enough money to at least be able to do it for fun. I've got a really lovely coffee table at home I designed and built myself, the dream is to make more and sell them! I can keep kidding myself people will want one...
September 23, 201114 yr If Product Design was to your definition, then Product Design would surely be the all encompassing term for all design? But it's not, it's a specific practise that is seperate from other design practises. Mike, I didn't mean to step on your toes there - you've obviously studied the subject, and I'm misusing the term. Let's take your definition for the field of Product Design (note caps), but accept that we are also designing products (note lowercase), and the work we do shares similarities with the field of Product Design. I'd imagine a Product Designer needs to be aware of the constraints and specifications of the materials he specifies. Likewise, a web designer should be aware of the constraints and specifications of the materials of the finished product - in the case of web design, the constraints are things like device widths, pixel densities and rendering engines and the specifications are HTML, CSS and Javascript.
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