May 8, 201016 yr Well the results didn't surprise me to be honest (and the exit polls were so accurate this time round!), but, going out on a whim, how long till Brown Resigns? It's inevitable he will do, The Tories and the Lib Dems look promising, and after seeing the results of Browns phone call with Clegg, I think it means in reality his days are numbered.
May 8, 201016 yr Depends really. I think that Tory's wont offer the reform that Lib Dems and Clegg will need to offer any support. Which leaves Labour with the chance, given that Lib Dems refuse to work with GB, my guess is he will step down at some point next week - after the Tory - Lib Dem talks have ended in tears.
May 8, 201016 yr I'm with Charlie on this one - Tory LibDem talks will break down over the weekend, and a new round of talks will begin with Labour and the LibDems. Part of any deal will almost definitely involve Brown's resignation. Billy Bragg says that Mandelson will be the next PM, and I wonder if he may actually be right... Best thing about this election though is that even though the LibDems actually lost seats, they now have a disproportionate amount of influence compared to even their vote share, never mind their actual presence in parliament. Surely this highlights the long overdue need for electoral reform in this country?
May 8, 201016 yr Definitely!! I am really glad that despite only getting 11% of the seats (for 23% of votes!!) that they have some kind of power. It really is a case of Clegg the kingmaker... But I get the feeling by doing any deal he will be signing the end of his political career in terms of public trust. Lets just hope he gets the political reform before that happens. I cant see it happening with Tories and their MPs are very against it. Labour may now concede that power seen as they are on the back foot. Mandelson as PM... what a scary scary thought.
May 8, 201016 yr Paddy Power giving Evens on another election this year. Nailed on certainty, I would suggest.
May 8, 201016 yr even though the LibDems actually lost seats, they now have a disproportionate amount of influence compared to even their vote share And there you have the biggest problem with proportional representation... we have it in NZ and it's NOT the magic solution - small parties get too much influence, there's too much wheeling-and-dealing to get anything through parliament, less direction, decisions take longer, policies are watered-down. Just saying! And I voted "won't resign" - Brown will be harder to evict than a Glaswegian junkie.
May 9, 201016 yr And there you have the biggest problem with proportional representation... we have it in NZ and it's NOT the magic solution - small parties get too much influence, there's too much wheeling-and-dealing to get anything through parliament, less direction, decisions take longer, policies are watered-down. Just saying! And I voted "won't resign" - Brown will be harder to evict than a Glaswegian junkie. I totally see your point Wize, but it's a problem with the system we have now, because here we are watching it unfold. In the event of a hung parliament, a small party does have a disproportionate influence. I understand that PR will possibly make this happen all the time, but either way you look at it, the voting system is flawed. The problem with FPTP is that it allows for a government to sit in parliament with a seat majority while actually having a smaller share of votes than the runner up party. Do we really want to be ruled by such a government? It seems to me that any party that comes to power under FPTP will oppose electoral reform because FPTP benefits the winner. I do think Brown will resign, sometime next week, but I'll be interested to see if he goes out in a Glaswegian junkie stylee!
May 9, 201016 yr I have had a thought. If he resigns we get Ed Balls as head of Labour. If he says he is quitting, a la Michael Howard, but remains leader for a couple of months, Labour could decide on a new leader without panic. I think it all has to depend on the tory/lib dem stand-off which already looks less likely to have a positive outcome. Proportional Representation does have its problems, but it works elsewhere in Europe even with co-alition governments. FPTP does just seem ridiculous when Lib Dems get their highest vote share ever but actually lose seats. I agree, at the moment they have a ridiculous amount of power, but its only likely to last about a week.
May 9, 201016 yr A bit wierd this is my first post here and all but this hung parliment is bound to fail. All signs point towards it, especially seen as nearly all the previous ones have.
May 9, 201016 yr Proportional Representation does have its problems, but it works elsewhere in Europe even with co-alition governments. FPTP does just seem ridiculous when Lib Dems get their highest vote share ever but actually lose seats. I agree, at the moment they have a ridiculous amount of power, but its only likely to last about a week. I disagree - I think the disproportionate amount of power is a reality until the next election. Because that power and influence is going to be borne out in any deals or power sharing that comes from these negotiations. LibDems may appear to have diminished power once the hype dies down, but essentially they have the power of veto over any law the tories try to pass that has no opposition (labour) support. Power of veto is not like the power to pass legislation, but it's the next best thing IMO as it can cause the whole system to stagnate. Consider the USA's power of veto in the UN, and how impotent this makes the UN. That's a lot of power. Incidentally I read earlier that Blair's first administration promised a referendum on electoral reform, but when they actually won the election, it was never mentioned again... Interesting, that.
May 10, 201016 yr http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/05/09/stalemate-pr-and-pr-ice-cream-bananas-and-fudge/ Couldn't of put it better. Sir Fry should be PM.
May 10, 201016 yr it works elsewhere in Europe even with coalition governments. Belgium's coalition government collapsed twice this year! Iceland's fell apart. Merkel's coalition is on the brink of losing control of Germany... You sure it works?!
May 10, 201016 yr Belgium's coalition government collapsed twice this year! Iceland's fell apart. Merkel's coalition is on the brink of losing control of Germany... You sure it works?! True, highlight cases where it doesn't work and suddenly it never works right? What about: Croatia, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Finland, Sweden and other Scandinavian countries.... where it does tend to work?
May 10, 201016 yr Even though I'd benefit more according to the tories manifesto I can't stand Cameron and the majority of the times they've been in power the changes they've made to this country have always been for the worse. Labour may have screwed up (selling our gold..etc) but they've still not done as much damage to us. If the tories get in the cuts are clearly going to royally screw us over...
May 10, 201016 yr the majority of the times they've been in power the changes they've made to this country have always been for the worse. Labour may have screwed up... Completely agree. The problem is that the tories started selling off this country back in 1979 - and in 1997 when Labour finally won an election, instead of behaving like the labour party everyone thought they were voting for (or at least the one I thought I was voting for), they basically just picked up all the tory policies and ran with them... There's so little difference between them now, that it's hardly worth even making a distinction. That's good enough reason on its own for electoral reform in my book. Unless the labour party is planning on ditching the Blair/ Thatcherite policies and going back to the good old days, that is.
May 10, 201016 yr well who every said Monday was right http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8672859.stm
May 10, 201016 yr well who every said Monday was right http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8672859.stm Although he hasn't actually stepped down as PM yet... and doesn't look to step down soon (only looking to step down as Labour leader in Autumn, giving the party time to find a suitable leader. like I suggested above simmiliar to Michael Howard.) -> unless it is in 'national interest' for him to do so.
May 10, 201016 yr Completely agree. The problem is that the tories started selling off this country back in 1979 - and in 1997 when Labour finally won an election, instead of behaving like the labour party everyone thought they were voting for (or at least the one I thought I was voting for), they basically just picked up all the tory policies and ran with them... There's so little difference between them now, that it's hardly worth even making a distinction. That's good enough reason on its own for electoral reform in my book. Unless the labour party is planning on ditching the Blair/ Thatcherite policies and going back to the good old days, that is. I wasn't alive then haha however, I've done some serious research as I'm generally of the pov that if you don't vote you shouldn't be allowed an opinion. Now the issue is as you've said, if someone dragged a few randomers from the street and read them out both referendums they wouldn't easily distinguish one from the other. I think the icing on the cake was when Brown decided to jump in over Blair, this really annoyed a lot of people and gave other parties an easy dig on labour ("you're not the person the gen public voted for..blahblah") this country needs sorting out
May 11, 201016 yr Tuesday it is. Brown is an ex-PM. Deceased, a goner. Pushing up the democratic daisies. Met his political maker.
May 11, 201016 yr Awesome, it looks like we've got a coalition government. Conservative and Liberal Democrat . I'm really excited about this, it's the first time any general election has actually affected me.
May 11, 201016 yr I am really dreading seeing Cameron's ugly mug on the telly every night. In fact, having lived through one entire tory administration, I can categorically announce: this is going to suck. A change is due, I accept that, but I think so many people give Brown a hard time. Does nobody else see that (from my perspective at least) one of the reasons Brown was so keen to take over from Blair and almost push him out of the way is that Blair was not a proper labour PM. Blair represented something that doesn't sit well with Brown, and I for one would choose Brown over Blair any day. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an apologist for Brown, I'm not a Labour party supporter, and I think his government (largely under Blair) made some terrible decisions, and made the UK suffer almost wantonly. BUT I also think Brown has the most integrity of any PM in my lifetime. I'll dig out the letters I got from Cameron's office when I wrote to him a few years back and post them up if I can find them.
May 12, 201016 yr Well put, these last few years i've grown sick of people maoning about money and hard times. I was born in the 80's and i saw people suffer, we've not been close to that. And i'm not talking about the music. We are going back there now. The poor and disabled will be in the gutter as the country falls behind the rest of the world.
May 12, 201016 yr David Cameron and Nick Clegg? This isn't going to last long. Tories might, but I'm betting David won't. The traditional Conservatives have never really been strong supporters of him. Actually would be difficult for any party/ leader to come out well in a situation like this. Coalition government is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. Not something that can last (no matter what your political opinion happens to be). I think it will be amusing though at the very least to see them try. A case of buy one get one free?
May 12, 201016 yr I agree with !b. Blair was full of it, Brown despite creating a few epic fails in Downing Street seemed more human and has had to deal with a lot of stuff other PMs wouldn't have ordinarily had to deal with (credit crunch for example). I did like his exit speech though - I thought it seemed quite genuine. Cameron... Well let's see what he is going to do with Clegg. I think Cameron came from a PR background IIRC, so he'll probably be good at talking to people and not being a "typical" politician - but will he be good enough to run Britain? Jury's out on that one. Clegg I'm sure will just be the hanger-on.
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