Hi

I've just started out in the world of web design and I met a customer last week and and built them a new responsive website. I showed it to them but they're just not impressed with it. It didn't have the "wow factor". My question is to all you designers out there who know the ropes: when you meet a customer to discuss a new website do you:

 

build a website for them based on what YOU think is a good website and then get feedback from them at that point?

do you allow them unlimited edits until they are happy?

do you allow them 2 , 3, or 4 edits and then that's it?

before you design the site, do you tell them to give you websites that they like, and then design the site based on those website?

do you give them a number of templates to browse and ask them to choose a template they like?

 

I'm just trying to figure out best to avoid this situation again, so that I dont spend time building a website for them and they just dont like it. I feel like it's wasted time and I have to start again....... or is this just par for the course and I better get used to it?

 

Thanks.

Well here's a portion of my own process...

 

Personally, before I design a website I go through an "interview phase". I ask my clients a decent amount of questions to get a feel of what their idea of the end product is. From those questions I extrapolate what colors to use, how to layout the website, where content should be, what style etc etc. After that I take a look at other websites in the same field as my client and take note of content in their page. The goal isn't plagiarism, but to learn "what other people did" and use it as a resource for creating something original; use it to create something with an amazing "wow factor".

 

Only then will I jump in and start designing.

 

PS: I learned these steps from reading a book named "The Principles of Beautiful Web Design". Then I tweaked the process described by the author into a way that worked best for me personally.

Edited April 7, 201313 yr by Pete Prosper

Well here's a portion of my own process...

 

Personally, before I design a website I go through an "interview phase". I ask my clients a decent amount of questions to get a feel of what their idea of the end product is. From those questions I extrapolate what colors to use, how to layout the website, where content should be, what style etc etc. After that I take a look at other websites in the same field as my client and take note of content in their page. The goal isn't plagiarism, but to learn "what other people did" and use it as a resource for creating something original; use it to create something with an amazing "wow factor".

 

Only then will I jump in and start designing.

 

PS: I learned these steps from reading a book named "The Principles of Beautiful Web Design". Then I tweaked the process described by the author into a way that worked best for me personally.

Thanks Pete. Do you give a fickle customer unlimited number of edits? Or is there a particular way you manage this? I figure I should up my price to factor in the work I need to do to make the customer happy.

By the way, would you suggest I ask for a percent deposit before I start working on a site? I didn't ask for a deposit from this customer and since he didn't like my first design, there's a chance he could tell me where to go before I even get paid a penny! Thanks again.

I do the same as Pete said. About the edits, I do 3 alternatives of the same site (changing some bit here and there) and i ask the client to choose the best one form their point of view, and i allow 1 more iteration to fix the details. Put this on the contract, so there is no room for enslavement It's always better to ask for a deposit, like half of the full price, to keep the client bond to you. This way, the client will try to find a solution with you, instead of turning it's back to you and search for another developer.

Hi

 

What the ideal design process would be:

 

1. Have a chat with the client to see what kind of people they are and if you think you will get on well with each other. Ask them questions about their business, their clients and what are they hoping to achieve with the site.

2. Sign a contract and get a deposit. Contract should cover you in all possible situations - like in this case what happens if client is not happy with the design, how many rounds of changes, etc.

3. Questionnaire - client need to fill in a questionnaire, this is for you to refer to, when designing the site later on. Questions should be about their target audience, their brand, colour scheme, etc, whatever you need to know to create a successful design.

4. Send them a first draft, to define the direction the design is going in and see if they are happy with that. Best to check from an early stage. Also one draft is enough - in my book t's a mistake to send a few versions for them to choose from. We are looking for quality, not quantity, so I much prefer to spend double the tie on one design, but make it perfect than creating two designs, that don't really fit.

5. Explain your design decisions and ask for a structured feedback. "Lacking a wow factor" is not a valid argument and they should explain why they think the design wouldn't work for their clients and why it wouldn't help them achieve their goals.

 

If the client is capable of explaining properly their goals and their vision of the website, you should be able to create a design that will work for them.

You need a set number of revisions, otherwise it could end up taking months, doing small changes here and there, or even a complete redesign.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited April 8, 201313 yr by teodora

Thanks Pete. Do you give a fickle customer unlimited number of edits? Or is there a particular way you manage this? I figure I should up my price to factor in the work I need to do to make the customer happy.

By the way, would you suggest I ask for a percent deposit before I start working on a site? I didn't ask for a deposit from this customer and since he didn't like my first design, there's a chance he could tell me where to go before I even get paid a penny! Thanks again.

 

I personally always require a down payment before starting to work on a website. It's usually 50% unless the project is extremely massive and expensive in which case I'll lower it to something affordable. In any case, I've heard of too many situations where clients have basically gotten a free website because there was no down payment and they had no intention of paying the end price. Be careful and make sure that doesn't happen to you.

 

As for edits, everyone has their own method. Teodora would rather focus on one design for her personal reasons while others take Terix's approach and present multiple designs. I've read many arguments over which course of action is more ideal and honestly..... you should pick whichever works the best for you or whichever you feel works best for the client. Though giving the client multiple options has it's positives, I personally choose to focus all my efforts on one single design. (My motives for this choice may be dictated by laziness, but who knows )

 

Anyway, hope I helped

 

PS: About how many edits they get..... well I charge for the amount of time I invest in the project. They can get as many edits as they want, but that's more time I'd have to work. Having said that, I may choose to be lenient if they don't like the first and ask for a second.

Edited April 8, 201313 yr by Pete Prosper

Yes, that is right - you have to find what you will feel most comfortable with, and then build your own design process based on that.

Maybe some books can help - here is a link to Successful freelancing by Smashing magazine https://shop.smashingmagazine.com/successful-freelancing-1.html

Hello,

 

I agree with most comments above! Here is the way I do it.

 

1- Speak to the client on the phone if they are far away, if they are local then meeting them will be the best option.

2- Take your laptop or pen and paper to highlight the questions/answers between you and them, Ask everything from text to graphics to production.

3- TAKE A DEPOSIT, don't work without a deposit else it will be a waste of time (happened to me many times). At least 25% depends on the project.

4- Set a limit to your self, for example; tell the client that you will provide up to 3 modifications. More than that you will charge more (Clients finds it professional)

5- ASK FOR THEIR INSPIRATION. Websites they like, this helps you by 50%! You would have a clear picture of what the clients likes. (everyone has a different taste)

6- Don't Rush! Take your time, pay attention to details. Such text size, colors, graphics.. etc

 

And to answer your question, you can't do much now. All you have to do is continue with the deal you set up with them in the first time.

 

Don't worry, we all learn from mistakes

Hi

 

What the ideal design process would be:

 

1. Have a chat with the client to see what kind of people they are and if you think you will get on well with each other. Ask them questions about their business, their clients and what are they hoping to achieve with the site.

2. Sign a contract and get a deposit. Contract should cover you in all possible situations - like in this case what happens if client is not happy with the design, how many rounds of changes, etc.

3. Questionnaire - client need to fill in a questionnaire, this is for you to refer to, when designing the site later on. Questions should be about their target audience, their brand, colour scheme, etc, whatever you need to know to create a successful design.

4. Send them a first draft, to define the direction the design is going in and see if they are happy with that. Best to check from an early stage. Also one draft is enough - in my book t's a mistake to send a few versions for them to choose from. We are looking for quality, not quantity, so I much prefer to spend double the tie on one design, but make it perfect than creating two designs, that don't really fit.

5. Explain your design decisions and ask for a structured feedback. "Lacking a wow factor" is not a valid argument and they should explain why they think the design wouldn't work for their clients and why it wouldn't help them achieve their goals.

 

If the client is capable of explaining properly their goals and their vision of the website, you should be able to create a design that will work for them.

You need a set number of revisions, otherwise it could end up taking months, doing small changes here and there, or even a complete redesign.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

thanks teo,

 

This will come in handy for myself, being a new web designer, even with skills, im still learning how to deal with customers, which are the right ones for me etc.

 

your above steps should weed out the picky customers that make our lifes hell and just give the 'its not got the wow factor'.

Basically relationship with the client is the most important thing. Clients need to know that you work with them, and you are not there just to take their money.

Web design is still something which people are not familiar with, they don't know how much work really is involved, it is difficult enough for the designers to estimate and foresee all issues that could arise. If you can make your clients realise you care for their business and you are really interested in the success of their site, you will have a great relationship with them.

Of course every case is different, a lot more could be said on the matter. I like Smashing magazine's books on freelancing, because they cover different types of clients and how best to manage them - very helpful.

ofc teo, all my customers come back to me to sort other problems my main aim is to keep them happy, which is why at current my portfolio doesnt match my skills.... just want the customer to be happy

yes, we all show only our best work in our portfolios, there are some projects you can't shout about for that reason.

Awesome advice already. I don't know if I can add any enlightenment to the above, just reaffirm the points made above. Your relationship with the customer is paramount. If you can build a decent rapport with them, it will make your life easier. If you are in the position to choose your clients - even better. Sometimes you have to make the decision not to take on the work if you think that you may clash along the way. Without trying to sound patronising, it's like any relationship and you have to work at it.

 

That said, I get 50% deposit. I know of others who charge more and previous clients who have paid upfront, but like it has been discussed on the forum many times before, if a client has already paid you money, they tend to stick through to get a result. Don't expect them to appreciate your work either. That's not a negative outlook as such but I have artist friends who somewhat belittle what I do, thinking web design is something anyone can do. A lot of the clients I have had never fully understood the work involved.

 

You'll get yourself a system through practice and experience but each client is different. Broadly speaking, my methods are meeting with the client in person or Skype initially. My preference is contacting through email to keep a written record at all times in case you need to refer to anything outstanding or discrepancies. Unfortunately 'good faith' doesn't have that much standing as it used to, so get it in writing. I cannot stress the importance of having a contract from the outset.

 

Swiftly moving on.... Indeed, we all have our process - making one design, multiple designs - find the method that works for you. Something that works for me is taking the laptop, tablet and mobile and showing competitor sites. Explaining how they work and why they work. Not because it's pretty. The vast majority of the time, a client wants something in the style of X. For me, I can base my design around that. I'll sketch up in front of them to get a feel for things then once they're relatively happy, I make up the composites.

 

Personally I setup unlimited edits up till the live site. If the client is a little too indecisive, I'll explain the nature of things in terms of development and will insinuate additional fees should they keep changing their mind to completely different designs. Once it's ready to go live, any additions are invoiced unless there is an error on my part, in which case they aren't billed.

 

Like I said, my comments are really enforcing the already great advice from above. I must admit, a questionnaire never really crossed my mind, so I'll be adapting that for the future

Thank you all for the great feedback. I really appreciate the time you took to give your detailed responses. Cheers.

Awesome advice already. I don't know if I can add any enlightenment to the above, just reaffirm the points made above. Your relationship with the customer is paramount. If you can build a decent rapport with them, it will make your life easier. If you are in the position to choose your clients - even better. Sometimes you have to make the decision not to take on the work if you think that you may clash along the way. Without trying to sound patronising, it's like any relationship and you have to work at it.

 

That said, I get 50% deposit. I know of others who charge more and previous clients who have paid upfront, but like it has been discussed on the forum many times before, if a client has already paid you money, they tend to stick through to get a result. Don't expect them to appreciate your work either. That's not a negative outlook as such but I have artist friends who somewhat belittle what I do, thinking web design is something anyone can do. A lot of the clients I have had never fully understood the work involved.

 

You'll get yourself a system through practice and experience but each client is different. Broadly speaking, my methods are meeting with the client in person or Skype initially. My preference is contacting through email to keep a written record at all times in case you need to refer to anything outstanding or discrepancies. Unfortunately 'good faith' doesn't have that much standing as it used to, so get it in writing. I cannot stress the importance of having a contract from the outset.

 

Swiftly moving on.... Indeed, we all have our process - making one design, multiple designs - find the method that works for you. Something that works for me is taking the laptop, tablet and mobile and showing competitor sites. Explaining how they work and why they work. Not because it's pretty. The vast majority of the time, a client wants something in the style of X. For me, I can base my design around that. I'll sketch up in front of them to get a feel for things then once they're relatively happy, I make up the composites.

 

Personally I setup unlimited edits up till the live site. If the client is a little too indecisive, I'll explain the nature of things in terms of development and will insinuate additional fees should they keep changing their mind to completely different designs. Once it's ready to go live, any additions are invoiced unless there is an error on my part, in which case they aren't billed.

 

Like I said, my comments are really enforcing the already great advice from above. I must admit, a questionnaire never really crossed my mind, so I'll be adapting that for the future

 

Hey mate,

 

amazing advice, something i struggle with alot, is customers who want to keep changing there minds... What is the best way to politly tell them they are taking the * and the price will need to be risen?

 

I never seem to nail the art of it.

Hey mate,

 

amazing advice, something i struggle with alot, is customers who want to keep changing there minds... What is the best way to politly tell them they are taking the * and the price will need to be risen?

 

I never seem to nail the art of it.

 

I wouldn't raise the price just because they were taking liberties, but you find a lot of people in general will be a bit more decisive when you tell them they will be invoiced for any amendments. If someone painted your house diamond white and then you said change it to egg shell white - sure it will be really irritating that you would have to do it all again, but you wouldn't be doing it for free. You'd charge for your time and the materials (you may even add additional costs as you have gone over the proposed time.

 

In a nutshell, best get a contract knocked up specifying that significant changes will be charged either an hourly rate or a fixed rate. That way your client knows from the outset on your working methods. Best thing is to be consistent really