Hi Guys,

 

I'm fairly new to this forum.

 

Right now I'm trying to get a job in web design eventually.

Right now I'm studying web design via w3schools.com and I must say that I'm very impressed with what I have learned from a free site, created a not bad looking web site from just html code using notepad, obviously right now this is early days, I imagine I will use Dreamweaver, Flash etc in the future.

 

My question is, what would you say is the best resource to learn web design/development? I also just found http://teamtreehouse.com/?cid=268. Would anyone recommend this? I'm happy this exists but at the same time I'm shifting through nicely on W3.

 

Decisions Decisions! What do you guys think?

 

Cheers,

I've heard that w3school is not a good resource for various reasons... incorrect teachings?? Not sure but try HTML Dog, they also have a PDF book. Get hold of it!!

Unlike HTML Dog, W3Schools has been updated this decade.

Unlike HTML Dog, W3Schools has been updated this decade.

 

HTML Dog is a site that accompanied a book about XHTML1.0 and CSS2.1. It doesn't claim to be up to date, but what it did cover is accurate and best practice.

 

If you want resources that are both up to date and accurate, try here.

Although I share the same reservations about W3Schools, it's worth noting that a large portion of the errors brought up by W3Fools have been corrected, including many that W3Fools have not themselves updated.

 

I also don't believe W3Schools have to make themselves a Wiki.

 

Edit: Just went through a lot of W3Fools and when you check on W3Schools, they have corrected most of the errors.

 

Can't fault them for that.

Edited March 22, 201214 yr by brightonmike

Quick note about Treehouse. I did like the service for the brief one month stint I was a member. They are fast moving in the right direction but not quite there yet for me.

 

I understand they are working on it, but at the moment most of courses seem to lack decent quizzes, tests, challenges that push you to replicate and develop the skills you have learned in the videos.

 

There is also Tuts+ premium which is a little cheaper. I think Treehouse is a better learning resource, but Tuts+ represents amazing value, especially with the ability to download all their ebooks for no additional cost.

 

Both are great IMO. I love the way learning (in this subject) is moving forward and becoming more interactive.

Edit: Just went through a lot of W3Fools and when you check on W3Schools, they have corrected most of the errors.

 

Can't fault them for that.

 

Publishing inaccurate information on a top-ranking site and only correcting it when publicly called-out? I can fault that.

Try www.lynda.com

Edited March 22, 201214 yr by Gareth Daine

Publishing inaccurate information on a top-ranking site and only correcting it when publicly called-out? I can fault that.

 

 

No, but it does show a positive acknowledgement.

I learned a lot on Youtube, particularly mlwebco's channel. In fact the day I found his channel I was ready to quit, learnt so much since then. I've also recently signed up for his training course, brilliant place to start

 

I started learning a year ago, I can't remember where I was learning from but I was using '98 code and tables. I then attempted to build a Wordpress theme... from scratch. Doh!

I found W3Schools very helpful when I were starting out despite its flaws.

Hi Guys,

 

Thank you very much the input, all the links were very helpful!

 

I had no idea W3 schools had such a bad rep with learners, thanks for letting me know. To be honest I don't want to slate the site but it has worked wonders for me considering I've just started web design/development.

 

I do want to learn this properly and don't mind eventually making small investments in the future. I do like many, want to end up working in this field and also possessing the skills to do it.

 

I think I will start with HTML Dog, once that's done and I'm familiar with the coding etc, I will move onto Lynda.com for the web tutorials, I don't mind paying if it can put me in with a good chance of getting a job. I'm not expecting this to be quick though, I'd say a minimal of year at least, possibly more. Better to get it done properly.

 

How long did it take guys to get to where you want? Did you learn just via websites or did you go to College/Uni? How did you motivate yourself for self-study?

I had no idea W3 schools had such a bad rep with learners

 

It doesn't. That's the problem. They think it's good as it ranks very highly in the search engines.

 

It's the savvy/advanced ones who have worked out it's flaws.

As above I have been learning for just over 12 months, although for the first 6 months or so I worked/learned solidly for 80-90 hours each week (still do 70+ now most weeks). I haven't been to College or Uni. Re motivation for self-study, I just love what I do and I want to push myself. Some days are hard, sometimes overwhelmingly so but overall, I love it and wouldn't change a thing

 

Hope that helps and good luck with your study

Dreamweaver might be okay to get started with, build some basic pages and see how they are put together to give you the idea but don't rely on it too long you dont want to become dependent on it - it generates pretty poor code and seriously bloated Javascript. You need to be able to hand code to get anywhere serious. Also ignore flash, it is not the future for web.

 

One thing I have always done is viewed source of good sites, or features they have (like what is that jquery plugin, how has it been used), and then Firefox - with the Firebug plugin to quickly view the code for elements on a page. Also with Firebug you can tweak the CSS in real-time to see what effect it has on the display/layout etc - I have learnt a lot from just doing this alone as I build a page.

 

At the start I bought a few books so i could just read bits in between working on a computer - I think this also helped a lot. Make sure you get the basics of HTML/CSS down before moving on too much but then you just learn as you go.

 

Apart from that never used any sort of online course, Google is my no1 tool, pretty much anything you want to try and do can be found no matter how tricky it may seem, copy it, understand it and you will eventually start to evolve it.

Dreamweaver might be okay to get started with, build some basic pages and see how they are put together to give you the idea but don't rely on it too long you dont want to become dependent on it - it generates pretty poor code and seriously bloated Javascript.

Why do people keep saying this? I use Dreamweaver all the time, and because I use it in "code view" rather than "design view" , my code is clean and not bloated. The only code in there is what you put in yourself.

Why do people keep saying this? I use Dreamweaver all the time, and because I use it in "code view" rather than "design view" , my code is clean and not bloated. The only code in there is what you put in yourself.

 

If you only use 'code view' then its fine. But the advice I gave still stands for most people starting out that do not.

If you only use 'code view' then its fine. But the advice I gave still stands for most people starting out that do not.

I would advise people starting out to learn code from the outset. there's no outlay (just use notepad) and free on-line tutorials, get good habits from the beginning.

Has anyone used Treehouse? It's advocated (I think via vested interests) by some big web design names such as Ryan Carson.

Has anyone used Treehouse? It's advocated (I think via vested interests) by some big web design names such as Ryan Carson.

 

It is Ryan Carson's.

 

It's good, they added badges recently which I'm not entirely sure of the purpose, I think to track how much you've done. Good ways to access the videos (iTunes podcast subscription - auto downloads the vids). Money has actually been spent on the production, so the videos are nice and scripted and rehearsed (better than youtube). The stuff they ended up producing just wasn't what I wanted in the end, you may be different. It also got rather expensive for 1 video a week which-I-may-watch-at-some-time-but-not-right-now.

Why do people keep saying this? I use Dreamweaver all the time, and because I use it in "code view" rather than "design view" , my code is clean and not bloated. The only code in there is what you put in yourself.

 

You still have a problem. If you only use Code View you're loading a massive, bloated application into memory, only half of which you use (but the other half has to load too) and the half you do use, other apps do better.

Edited March 30, 201214 yr by Renaissance-Design

It is Ryan Carson's.

 

It's good, they added badges recently which I'm not entirely sure of the purpose, I think to track how much you've done. Good ways to access the videos (iTunes podcast subscription - auto downloads the vids). Money has actually been spent on the production, so the videos are nice and scripted and rehearsed (better than youtube). The stuff they ended up producing just wasn't what I wanted in the end, you may be different. It also got rather expensive for 1 video a week which-I-may-watch-at-some-time-but-not-right-now.

 

I'm thinking of signing up for a months worth, getting my hands on the FOWD videos, having a look around the tutorials and then probably leave it at that. It's around £30 a month for the gold version and it's a bit steep for me really that to be paying each month.

I'm thinking of signing up for a months worth, getting my hands on the FOWD videos, having a look around the tutorials and then probably leave it at that. It's around £30 a month for the gold version and it's a bit steep for me really that to be paying each month.

 

You can pause your membership in case you won't be using it for a while. I tend to do this until I know there's something new I want to learn.

 

They email the conference videos to you so you can still watch them if your account is paused.

You can pause your membership in case you won't be using it for a while. I tend to do this until I know there's something new I want to learn.

 

They email the conference videos to you so you can still watch them if your account is paused.

 

The fact they email the FOWD videos to you in itself is worth a months membership. Those videos are over £100 on the FOWD site.

The fact they email the FOWD videos to you in itself is worth a months membership. Those videos are over £100 on the FOWD site.

 

Yup, there are some great ones. I haven't seem them all yet but Paul Boags '5 New Skills that Every Web Designer Needs to Know' is my current favourite.

I actually found W3Schools quite hard to follow, didn't agree with me at all, maybe that's just me though.

 

I actually learnt from scratch on 'Dave's site' Linky here he blatantly tries to get you to sign up to one of the hosting companies he's advertising, but apart from that i found his site a very good starting point, even if some of the sections are slightly outdated now.

 

The best resourse i have had as a beginner is the 'HTML for dummies' book, Taught me just about everything i know about CSS and x(HTML) and i'm just reading through the whole JavaScript section before going back and actually trying it out!

I actually found W3Schools quite hard to follow, didn't agree with me at all, maybe that's just me though.

 

I actually learnt from scratch on 'Dave's site' Linky here he blatantly tries to get you to sign up to one of the hosting companies he's advertising, but apart from that i found his site a very good starting point, even if some of the sections are slightly outdated now.

 

The best resourse i have had as a beginner is the 'HTML for dummies' book, Taught me just about everything i know about CSS and x(HTML) and i'm just reading through the whole JavaScript section before going back and actually trying it out!

 

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. Your comments have all been very helpful!

I checked out the 'Web Design All-in-one For Dummies' on Amazon, it looks like it has pretty much everything that a beginner in web design needs. My only concern is that after speaking with a web developer regarding learning is that the material is not up to date as it was made in 2009, 3 years in this industry I would imagine is a long time.

 

I was also advised to start learning HTML5 and CSS3 as well. I saw a few on Amazon but still can't make up my mind. Learning web design/development is very overwhelming at times and is critical to find the right study material.

Any ideas on the right books? Happy to invest in good material.

 

Cheers

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. Your comments have all been very helpful!

I checked out the 'Web Design All-in-one For Dummies' on Amazon, it looks like it has pretty much everything that a beginner in web design needs. My only concern is that after speaking with a web developer regarding learning is that the material is not up to date as it was made in 2009, 3 years in this industry I would imagine is a long time.

 

I was also advised to start learning HTML5 and CSS3 as well. I saw a few on Amazon but still can't make up my mind. Learning web design/development is very overwhelming at times and is critical to find the right study material.

Any ideas on the right books? Happy to invest in good material.

 

Cheers

 

This book looks like a great starting point. Once you get a good understanding of HTML & CSS down, making the switch to HTML5 and CSS3 is relatively straight-forward.

No, but it does show a positive acknowledgement.

 

All for the $$$'s my friend.

Let's not forget it's not just about the information they publish but the dodgy practice of trying to look affiliated with the W3C and trading off of that name.

I support macprovideo.com, They have been around for about 8 years and have about 25000 videos. They continue to improve their production quality, and release a new course every few days. Great deal at 25 bucks a month. I am a designer, and use their tutorials for all my web design learning. I haven't used lynda because I didn't like their site, or player. I have used groove3, but only for a tuton reaper. It is not as good as mpv, but does have a couple titles that no one else has. Good luck