Hi there,

 

I have been interested in web design for a few years and find it an enjoyable and rewarding hobbie. I am unemployed and have been for the past year. I would like to start my own web design business but am just a little confused where to start.

 

I have some experience in html and css but it is far from advanced. I have made a few sites for friends and family and the response has been very positive. Could anyone give me some pointers and advice or am I crazy for considering such a career??

 

I'm willing to work hard at increasing my knowledge which I am already doing through books and online tutorials. I'm currently working on my business site and have been having a play around with a Wordpress installation.

 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

 

Kind Regards

 

Dan

Have you got any examples of your work online that we can take a look at to see where you're at to give you some pointers in the right direction?

 

Of course it's not crazy to consider web design as a career if you keep working hard and willing to learn all the latest technologies you will be fine.

Hey

 

Some ideas of your work can help us point you in the right direction.

 

looks like J05hr beat me

Edited October 19, 201115 yr by David Cook

You ll need:

 

1) a solid knowledge of marketing — because your web-sites will be most likely aimed at generating profit for your client

2) a solid knowledge of photoshop to make it visually attractive

3) a knowledge of usability — generally speaking just dont do anything out of the ordinary unless you are 100% sure its needed.

4) a knowledge of css, seo, html and whats not (although i would prefer a specific tech guy to take care of that)

 

Start at looking on industry best websites and try to create something that is just as appealing.

Hi Dan,

 

It's worth also pointing out that all these methods can be learnt. Either through books, online tutorials, courses or most of the time personal experience. We didn't all wake up one day as web designers.

 

If you feel as though your work is at a beginner level that is because you are just starting out. Don't rush to get your sites looking like the pro's yet, take your time and learn everything properly.

 

Good luck!

I'd say you need to make sure that you want to be a web designer because you are interested in it, have some kind of passion for it, etc. You don't want to be looking into it solely because you are unemployed and looking for a quick income; web design is far more difficult than it appears and you can tell when someone isn't passionate about it by looking at their work.

 

If you do have an interest in it, I'd recommend searching around the forum first. We've discussed this a bunch of times before. I've typed up some pretty long posts about getting going, too.

 

To summarize, you need to learn:

• Typography
  
• Design Principles
  
• Usability Principles
  
• Accessibility Principles
  

 

As well as a strong command of:

• the image editor of your choice (Photoshop, Fireworks, etc.) You'll need SOMETHING to cut together graphics, even if you decide to design inside the browser
  
• XHTML/HTML5/CSS
  
• JavaScript. If you are going to be putting together your own work you need to apply at least a basic level of behavior.
  

 

Design is a medium of communication and if you aren't communicating the client's message effectively then you have failed at your job. A lot of people seem to forget this when they are learning.

 

Sketch on paper first, it makes you a better designer

 

Design content first, then build the rest around it. Lay out the content on a page, make sure it's perfect typographically, then build elements around it as needed to reinforce the content. This, obviously, requires you to have content in advance.

 

Again, searching for book and tutorial recommendations is a good idea, there are a lot of resources out there.

I failed to found decent books on web-design when i was searching though. Just as well as decent courses / university programs.

Closes was interactive design in http://www.kabk.nl/ i guess.

 

I mean there are a lot of books but their authors never worked as web-designers so their credibility is pretty meh.

Thanks for the quick responses,

 

 

 

I am currently in the process of creating a site, the address is www.dn-design.co.uk It's very basic at the moment. I built it from scratch using coffeecup html editor and the logo (which I admit is very poor) in Photoshop. I do really enjoy doing it and I'm not just desperate for some money. I came back to web design as a hobby after many years away from it so has been a bit of a shock to the system! I would like to greatly increase my skills, mastering html/css then maybe look into a bit of php/mysql.

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

 

Dan

Edited October 19, 201115 yr by dan87676

I would say that if you plan on selling your web-design services try to create at least something more appealing then free templates.

First result in google http://www.freewebsitetemplates.com/ and it already looks better.

 

Its hard to give any advices when your design is so basic — in fact it should be your first step to try and separate good designs from bad.

Once you know whats good and whats bad you can start moving.

Aside from stopping myself from having a major rant about your prices.

 

I have made a few sites for friends and family and the response has been very positive

 

You want to take anything friends and family will say to you with a pinch of salt they are there to support you.

Aside from stopping myself from having a major rant about your prices.

 

Please don't, I'm sure most here would agree.

Whats wrong with the prices? I worked for free / for food when i started. Nothing wrong with it.

Unless you consider it too high ofc xD

No please do rant it's what I need! I agree the site is extremely basic but it is nowhere near finished yet I plan to do the whole thing from scratch without using any kind of WYSIWYG so increase my knowledge. Do you guys mainly work in pure code?

There are different kinds of "basic".

"Smart" is a "basic" car but its good nevertheless.

Your site is basic like old rusty bike with 1 wheel.

So start again rather then try to improve it imo.

 

^^ I think most of us came through creating such designs so dont take it personally.

Whats wrong with the prices are you seriously ******* kidding me? Your destroying my industry and everyone else on here who works within it. £299 for a 20 page site? So how much for ecommerce 399? How the hell do you plan to making a living off that or expand? Increase your prices?

 

No you can't because all of a sudden your customers are going to walk on else where. I'm all up for doing something for beer money when your starting but advertising £59 for a single page was it? If that takes you 4 days to design and code working 8 hours a day your working for £1.84 per hour, people get fined in the UK for paying non uk residents that here.

 

Look at rent say £600 for a decent place here you need to sell around 11 single page sites a month to cover rent. Thats before bills, food, living and so on. IF your doing it cheap to start out here's a hint don't ******* charge or call your self a "web designer"

 

The industry has had to fight and recover time and time again, first it was perfect then you had bedroom designers like you charge p*** all for a site and that made everyone question people like me, then it recovered because the quality of work was so poor, and then once again we have India to compete with.

 

Would you hire a builder to build your £100,000 house for £100? And expect it to be fault free? No so why do that here.

 

Instead of trying to earn a living by competing on price and that's what your doing here by doing is so cheap, go to college and learn to market your self or at least educate on the industry before you come on here asking for advice when all your doing is making a mockery of what I and others on here do.

Edited October 19, 201115 yr by pandadoodle

You are right except for the fact that creating such a site would prolly take 10 minutes of time.

60 pounds? Yes please.

 

But who am i kidding. As pointed above, there are a lot of FREE templates that are better.

Edited October 19, 201115 yr by Lieto

You are right except for the fact that creating such a site would prolly take 10 minutes of time.

60 pounds? Yes please.

 

But who am i kidding. As pointed above, there are a lot of FREE templates that are better.

 

Yeah ok 10 min, the time you take in to account £60 clients are never happy with the first 10 designs you give them. Wake up in the real world, you call your self a designer yet are suggesting you use templates **** off to tesco

I <3 you too.

 

All i am trying to say is that there is a client for every product and price and there is also a supplier for every budget. Thats market.

You are right except for the fact that creating such a site would prolly take 10 minutes of time.

60 pounds? Yes please.

 

But who am i kidding. As pointed above, there are a lot of FREE templates that are better.

 

Wow 10 minutes to design a page? I think I will bring my designs to you from now on give you £60 and charge normal rates

I <3 you too.

 

All i am trying to say is that there is a client for every product and price and there is also a supplier for every budget. Thats market.

 

Bull****, most of my clients who come to me asking to spend £1000 on a site end up spending three times as much once I educate them on what actually is needed. Your in business for your self if a solicitor came to you asking you to make a £60 site you would do it? Do you think he would give you any of his services for £60, come and stand by you in an interview, take care of a mortgage application etc etc

^^ Look at his home page.

No images, one font used, one paragraph of text, 2 colors.

10 mins might be exaggeration but it surely wont take eternity to do something along these lines.

 

It got nothing to do with the average business sites you do on regular basis for 3k.

Literally NOTHING

Edited October 19, 201115 yr by Lieto

OK I agree, my site, especially as it stands is pretty damn awful... and yes you can get free templates that are much much better than mine. But please be gentle with me I haven't even started my 'business' and I am just starting out, I know I have a hell of a lot to learn. As for the prices I'm just trying to get my prices to match my abilities which at the moment is low. I just need help and advice to get going really as it feels like I'm just making it up as I go along at the moment.

 

Dan

Sorry Dan, we discuss serious business here from now on xD

To sum it up i kinda agree with your desire to work for food to start with, while others seem to be suggesting completely different rates. Dunno why.

 

One thing i agree with though is that you need to go all out in every project regardless of its price and make it as good as possible. Then you may eventually get clients who are willing to pay few thousands for a site.

Edited October 19, 201115 yr by Lieto

^^ Look at his home page.

No images, one font used, one paragraph of text, 2 colors.

10 mins might be exaggeration but it surely wont take eternity to do something along these lines.

 

It got nothing to do with the average business sites you do on regular basis for 3k.

Literally NOTHING

 

He just said he is starting his home page kudos for him doing it all by hand.

 

Once you been doing this as long as me, then come back and tell me it has nothing to do with it.

^^ pretty sure i am doing "it" longer then you already

Not sure where this discussion is going, so i l probably jump off to not derail it further.

With prices like that you do everyone a disservice.

 

First and foremost, yourself. How many clients do you think you can get/research/plan and create for in one week? Maybe 2? Can you live on £120/week?

 

Secondly, future you. You will get better, you will get experience and obviously you will raise prices but since your current client base is paying so low the aren't going to accept the large price hike you would need. So you need to re-convince a whole new group of clients using work you done cut rate and quickly.

 

Thirdly, your clients. Clients by definition don't know what makes a good designer. So they will sort by the most natural way they can, price. Can you honestly say that you would the time, research and effort in to make the best site you can for your client, for £60? I can't. I'll give you something passable but it's not worth my time to think in any great depth about what you actually need.

 

Lastly, your peers. We have established clients don't really know what makes a good designer. So exactly how is Pandadoodle meant to compete with you if he's quoting 10x what you are for what the client thinks is the same work? The guy is just gonna think Panda is ripping him off and thus low expectations are set. Except Panda can't go lower. He has a certain minimum he has to pull in every month and if he doesn't get enough willing clients he has to hike prices on everyone else.

 

It's the same reasons none of us like spec work (Design competition type stuff). It's a professional job, you absolutely should not be doing it for free. Time/Talent/Interest/Passion/Experience/Knowledge/Research all goes into making a designer and you should pay reasonable rates to gain access to that. I'm not saying jump instantly to the kind of rates the best designers are charging. Absolutely start on the bottom rung but don't screw yourself by going lower than what is reasonable.

 

Work out how much you need to survive week to week. There is your absolute bare minimum. You can add whatever you like to that for profit. Judge yourself how much you think you deserve/can get and go from there. Year down the line re-evaluate.

 

I'd also advise against the package deal type you have on your site. Design is a bespoke service, I think it is much fairer and much more professional to quote on a per-client basis.

^^ pretty sure i am doing "it" longer then you already

Not sure where this discussion is going, so i l probably jump off to not derail it further.

 

If thats the case with the industry going and been through so much how can you advocate the prices that are being offered above or even accept £60 projects? £60 doesn't even get you an hour of my time.

If you're a beginner and you feel you aren't good enough to charge the higher prices, then by all means charge less.

 

Just don't advertise it and don't stick with it.

 

I did a handful of sites at first for people for no more than £160. I didn't advertise nor tell anybody those prices.

Right I think I better re-evaluate my prices although I dont think I will be increasing them by very much as at the moment I'm just really keen to build up a half decent portfolio but I will definetly keep what you guys have said in mind. Maybe I could get some free jobs at charities and stuff anything really just to get some more experience and build up my skills.

 

At the moment I am only using an html editor, I really want to stay away from wysiwyg as it don't think it helps you learn and you just end up with messy code, do you agree or is using wysiwg quite common with designers? I also need to really brush up on my photoshop skills too. Well I hope with a lot of hard work and dedication I will get there in the end...do you guys think I should just keep it as a hobby for now until I am more confident?

 

 

Thanks for the feedback it really is helpful to me.

 

 

 

Dan

At the end of the day, like any business, the client/customer gets what they pay for.

There is nothing in this world that'll stop people thinking they can pay peanuts and get the most awesome site EVER! In reality we all know they pay peanuts and get a pile of crap.

 

More and more clients are coming to me after doing exactly what i said above then realising they something proper. If anything, these cheap web sites are educating my clients that these things cost money and i thank them for that

Forgot to ask do you think it's a good idea to have a company name and brand or just use your own name in the beginning? Also what in your opinion is the best way for me to get better? enroll on courses or just make the most of the information and tutorials online?

 

 

Regards

 

Dan

1. Your name if you want to be just a designer. "Cool title" if you want to be a head of a web studio eventually, hire staff etc.

2. Best way to start getting better from scratch is to choose 10 best of the best sites you can find on the internet, some industry standards. Lets say one selling site like ebay, one news site like bbc, and rest from fwa (not necessarily make it flash, just draw a frame). Try to copy it EXACTLY.

 

That way you will improve photoshop skills and your eye will get used to doing things right.

Thats fastest way in my opinion.

 

I never tried that on myself but sometimes you just look on a website and think to yourself "i know how they done this and know why this thing is here but this.. hmm, thats new and interesting".

Edited October 19, 201115 yr by Lieto

1. Your name if you want to be just a designer. "Cool title" if you want to be a head of a web studio eventually, hite staff etc.

2. Best way to start getting better from scratch is to choose 10 best of the best sites you can find on the internet, some industry standards. Lets say one selling site like ebay, one news site like bbc, and rest from fwa (not necessarily make it flash, just draw a frame). Try to copy it EXACTLY.

 

That way you will improve photoshop skills and your eye will get used to doing things right.

Thats fastest way in my opinion.

 

I never tried that on myself but sometimes you just look on a website and think to yourself "i know how they done this and know why this thing is here but this.. hmm, thats new and interesting".

 

 

ok thanks for that I'm just a little confused what you mean about photoshop as I have absolutely no experience designing a site in photoshop could you please tell me what this involves? is that how you design the majority of your sites?

Forgot to ask do you think it's a good idea to have a company name and brand or just use your own name in the beginning?

 

Pros and cons to both really.

I chose to use a psudenome as it's easier to remember and occasionally I've employed in other staff such as illustrators and videographers.

It also gives you room for expansion as well as giving you more space to stretch your imagination.

Well reading over the comments again you guys given me bit of a wake up call. I've decided I'm goin to scrap my site altogether and make some sites of my own. Think I'm just getting way ahead of myself... I still would like to be a web designer and still really keen to learn more but I'm obviously nowhere near ready to start charging people.

 

What are the best ways to get better and become a good designer?

http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/design-tutorials/design-and-code-a-slick-website-from-scratch-%e2%80%93-part-i/

http://net.tutsplus.com/category/tutorials/design-tutorials/

 

http://www.thenewboston.com

 

I believe this is worth a mention.

 

/Edit: What I was trying to say is follow tutorials. There's a lot of resources out there. Additional resources *cough* http://www.graphixshare.com/

Edited October 19, 201115 yr by Chosen

Hi there,

 

I have been interested in web design for a few years and find it an enjoyable and rewarding hobbie. I am unemployed and have been for the past year. I would like to start my own web design business but am just a little confused where to start...

 

 

Hi Dan,

 

It is good to know that you are into web designing. Basically, you have to gather knowledge about designing and coding to govern others. Also see what other companies are doing. Me-too-ism sometimes helps.

 

Thanks,

 

Jason

what the hell does " you have to gather knowledge about designing and coding to govern others" mean?

Thanks for those links

 

Hopefully a year or so from now I will have improved enough to actually start charging for sites!

Edited October 21, 201115 yr by dan87676