June 23, 201115 yr Hi, I am getting emails asking about webdesign but when i reply with info and quote i never really hear anything! Wordpress CMS = £400 - £500 Wordpress CMS with Client Portal area = £700+ Wordpress CMS with Ecommerce = £700 Basic static webdesign 4-7 pages = £300 How is this to everyone else?
June 23, 201115 yr Hi, I am getting emails asking about webdesign but when i reply with info and quote i never really hear anything! Wordpress CMS = £400 - £500 Wordpress CMS with Client Portal area = £700+ Wordpress CMS with Ecommerce = £700 Basic static webdesign 4-7 pages = £300 How is this to everyone else? This all depends on where you are and who pays what in your area I alter my prices a little depending on who I see and how far I need to travel or If I have to stay up late / early hours for video meetings and so on My ecommerce stuff is bout 6-7 X your wordpress cms with ecommerce package and I don't use wordpress... Static page id double that cost CMS thats not wordpress £800+ How complicated is the portal for clients? But 3-4x + your cost. I love how that costs more than your ecommerce packages LOL...
June 23, 201115 yr pbul2004 - I want a 6 page static side advertising my drive way cleaning business nothing fancy I just want photos, before and after of the work done. A page with my rates, about the business and where we cover, contact me and so on PM me a pitch for that and ill give you advice, if your not getting returns on your pitches this is where the problem is...
June 23, 201115 yr I'm much more expensive than that and i don't have a problem with getting work. The weakness must lie elsewhere. As Panda said, pitch for the faux job they're suggesting and we'll try to work out what's wrong.
June 23, 201115 yr I'm much more expensive than that and i don't have a problem with getting work. The weakness must lie elsewhere. As Panda said, pitch for the faux job they're suggesting and we'll try to work out what's wrong. You gotta be kidding me... According to you guys I only get pennies and I'm still out of work. I'll be damned, maybe I should raise my prices tenfold.
June 23, 201115 yr You gotta be kidding me... According to you guys I only get pennies and I'm still out of work. I'll be damned, maybe I should raise my prices tenfold. The prices i charge are a reasonable reflection of the time and effort spent on the job as well as the time and effort spent on learning the craft and the time and effort spent marketing and networking.
June 23, 201115 yr Do you know how much red tape is around ecommerce sites these days!? Just educating the client is 3 days work there lol Also I never ever, ever, ever get the client who has less than 25 products to sell mine always seem to send me either 1. A parts catague with the phrase I want to sell all this online Or 2. A .csv feed from a supplier containing 10,000 + products Plus I charge what I charge because more importantly im confidant thats what I'm worth and thats what ill get Have your prices gone up at all since you started? When I started meeting a client fuel was around 70p a ltr its now 1.34p a ltr so my prices reflect all of that, government charges you more per year and you pay it so you do the same your stupid not to!!!! Edited June 23, 201115 yr by pandadoodle
June 23, 201115 yr You gotta be kidding me... According to you guys I only get pennies and I'm still out of work. I'll be damned, maybe I should raise my prices tenfold. Pitch me first or the forum thats where your problem is, where are you pitching and how are you doing it?
June 23, 201115 yr Damm, I undercharge like a mo fo... I charged £50 for a 2 page site the other day with contact form on 2nd page including design and seo I charged £100 for a 4 page website including contact and gallery pages Im doing my first wordpress theme and setup for client and im charging £300 How do you all work it out? Im worried I wont get clients if I charge more
June 23, 201115 yr snip I'd up your prices a bit Anthony, i've seen some of your work and it's worth more than that. As you're just starting out, your prices would be lower but not TO low!
June 23, 201115 yr Author If anything my prices have gone down, my original prices are still on my site : - www. pbwebdesign-warrington.co.uk Which i am currently redesigning to make more simpler and easy to use. My prices on my new design are lower! Ill copy in the email chain with 1 particular client i had a week ago. I have done 9 websites though, but most of which have come through friends of friends. I am near the top of Google for "web design warrington" so just dont know what im doing wrong!
June 23, 201115 yr Confidence. If I'm working for a developer IF i get a full on detailed brief, all the images and content sent in, ill knock out a single page .psd for £55 one off costs and I have nothing else to do with it. But there is a strict requirement for it and not many developers meet it so they get that + hourly rate on top. Depends on how pro you are (as in your attitude and how you mange your self and your clients) pro design or code is BS anyone can do it given time and the drive to learn. £100 clients are fine if thats all your getting but when you have a house, cars, hobbies, friends, daughter, wife you discover the £100 sites you used to bring in dont cut it no more id need 10 of them at a minimum, but ideally id want 20 so next month if no work is around I'm fine, or I can afford to take on other projects I want improve on networking, find bigger clients and so on. Once you land your first quality client everything changes and learn to say NO!
June 23, 201115 yr I'd up your prices a bit Anthony, i've seen some of your work and it's worth more than that. As you're just starting out, your prices would be lower but not TO low! Thanks Mike Thanks Renaissance-Design I think it might help once I get my portfolio up and running
June 23, 201115 yr If anything my prices have gone down, my original prices are still on my site : - www. pbwebdesign-warrington.co.uk Which i am currently redesigning to make more simpler and easy to use. My prices on my new design are lower! Ill copy in the email chain with 1 particular client i had a week ago. I have done 9 websites though, but most of which have come through friends of friends. I am near the top of Google for "web design warrington" so just dont know what im doing wrong! Is it just you? 1 man band? Pitch me, pitch me, pitch me! I'm honest trying to help you fella
June 23, 201115 yr Author Here is the contact form feedback: - I run a small greeting card business & I'm looking to set up a website that will display 4 different ranges & contain a home page. No slaes yet, just a browsing site, with email/ contacts etc.... Here is my reply from my phone as i was out: - Hi, I'm not near my PC at the moment, but I can offer a full content management system using Wordpress. This will allow you to add update, delete all your own pages and content with ease. I can design a great looking website for your business with lots of great features, such as interactive galleries, Google maps, contact form and much more. I have done lots of other websites you can look at, I can send you them later. For the above you would b looking at £350 to 400 and the site will look really good. Any questions please let me know, Thanks, Paul Then the reply: - Hi, Many thanks, I currently have a registered domain name, but do not know how to set a website up. I look forward to recieving more information, Regards, Now my reply with all the information: - Hi there, As promised… That’s no problem if you already have a registered domain name. All you need now is to have a hosting package in order to upload a website to the internet. The Hosting will need to support the latest versions of PHP and MySQL in order to install the Content Management System called Wordpress. I recommend a company called Patrick Internet. They offer all the services required and are very cheap, its £25 a year, and to transfer the domain name across I think its £9. www.patrickinternet.co.uk It does sound confusing but it’s not that bad, I can do all of this for you and assist where needed. Here’s some of the work I have done below: - [There was a list of 9 websites i have done here] I still have another two sites to put up there but they have not got hosting yet. As you can see all of the sites look great and are not tacky and cheaply made. You will get a great looking website which you have full control over updating you pages, content and images as you please. I will include: - - Interactive image galleries / sliders - Contact form with full validation and captcha (to prevent spam emails) - Interactive Google Map with built in directions - Social media integration such as Facebook and twitter etc. - Will include a free Blog for latest news, offers etc - Full CMS system allowing you full access to change the site as you please. - Fantastic design and made eye catching - Full SEO – Search Engine submission etc - Portfolio page / gallery showcase of your work and greeting cards - CMS made easy to use and documentation user guide Excluding hosting/domain name transfers , for all the above it would be £400. Do you have any ideas, requirements for your site? Such as colour scheme etc? It would take approx 4 weeks to complete once hosting is all setup. This is dependent on all the textual content being sent to me and any images you have for relevant pages. For demonstration purposes I will include sample text and images so you can see how the site looks. If you have any questions please let me know, Regards Paul Then NOTHING!!!
June 23, 201115 yr Even I had trouble following that, way too much information for over the phone / email Id also say that customer was fishing... So they need a website you told them this : 1. Get hosting here £25 2. I use wordpress = google = wordpress FREE + cheap templates FREE --- customer does all the work 3. Saves £375... Edited June 23, 201115 yr by pandadoodle
June 23, 201115 yr Author The above is generally how i reply to feedback, i try not to sound too techy or stuck up if you get me? I just try to sound normal lol. Yeah i work on my own as well as having a full time job.
June 23, 201115 yr Author Even I had trouble following that, way too much information for over the phone / email Id also say that customer was fishing... So how would you have replied and what am i doing wrong? I just tried to offer her a lot of stuff for her money!
June 23, 201115 yr So how would you have replied and what am i doing wrong? I just tried to offer her a lot of stuff for her money! Any customer calls / emails me for a quote or anything for a site over £500 + pick up the phone and make a meeting with them. Over coffee, beers or in the shop business they are in. Take a notebook, or stills printed with pen and pad. Business card and contract sign there and then. From my experience anything you tell a customer there and then via email they are in google or go to the next company and get £100 off. In person get them reved up about it so excited they cant wait to get it done, your passionate, you care about them, its just like trying to get a woman in bed (if your a virgin you ****ed here then)
June 23, 201115 yr Thanks Mike Thanks Renaissance-Design I think it might help once I get my portfolio up and running Make it a priority.
June 23, 201115 yr You gotta be kidding me... According to you guys I only get pennies and I'm still out of work. I'll be damned, maybe I should raise my prices tenfold. This is an industry where you won't be getting good clients with low prices. People seem to insist on trying to undercut the competition and advertise themselves as "affordable" or (even worse) "cheap". Besides the negative connotation associated with "cheap" it's a bad idea to present yourself as the budget option. People tie price together with quality. A good business owner who isn't out to get the cheapest price possible is going to look at the highest bid and think it's too much (think anchor pricing psychology) and look at the cheaper bids and think they can't deliver quality. You want your pricing to be somewhere near the middle of the top tier. To the OP, this Pandadoodle fella (which is quite the badass name, btw) has hit the nail on the head. I'd take his advice.
June 23, 201115 yr I've gone into a room with 3 developer friends stood in front of 12 people and pitched a job for almost 150k+ and we still didnt get it, its a different world then
June 23, 201115 yr Paul another thing I've spotted (or you may have taken them out for the forum use) is include all your contact details even if its via email, website pm, some online bidding site (elance) example make it as easy as possible for the client. Some of the biggest customers I've had HATE email, they prefer face to face, failing that phone
June 23, 201115 yr People tie price together with quality. A good business owner who isn't out to get the cheapest price possible is going to look at the highest bid and think it's too much (think anchor pricing psychology) and look at the cheaper bids and think they can't deliver quality. You want your pricing to be somewhere near the middle of the top tier. This. The first value signal a potential client gets about your services is how you talk about them, the second is how you price them. If you aim for the bottom of the market you need more jobs and more clients to stay afloat, and you'll attract the worst sort of client - the one who doesn't value your skills and experience. Add to that the fact that every client and every job will generate some non-billable hours, and you're putting yourself seriously out of pocket, stressed and overworked. Learn to say no, to not be apologetic about charging for quality, and to pick and choose your clients carefully. Also learn to charge according to the client. Design Professionalism by Andy Rutledge should be required reading for anyone going into the design business.
June 23, 201115 yr Author So dont really give too much away on email then? How will you know how much they are willing to spend? Do you give them a quote over email. Say for example if i got the email above, would you send a quote back based on her requirements? The work i have carried out for all my websites are of high quality, i even go out of my way an do extra things for free sometimes just to make the site look good, as it will help my portfolio. Like the site in my sig below. Its just converting the emails into clients i am having issues with. Maybe it might be because ive not updated my portfolio as well.
June 23, 201115 yr So dont really give too much away on email then? How will you know how much they are willing to spend? Do you give them a quote over email. Say for example if i got the email above, would you send a quote back based on her requirements? The work i have carried out for all my websites are of high quality, i even go out of my way an do extra things for free sometimes just to make the site look good, as it will help my portfolio. Like the site in my sig below. Its just converting the emails into clients i am having issues with. Maybe it might be because ive not updated my portfolio as well. No don't give anything away really just mail back and get a contact number or suggest a meeting. Anyone wanting numbers there and then I learnt to tell them to duckoff. If I could give them a rocket ship usb stick that would fly them to the moon they would still want me to pay for the fuel or say no i want to go to mars instead ignore them (or slowly drift them out if paying bills is a priority) Id meet up with them talk to them, find out what they want, talk to them then shut up and listen take notes, ask about business how long they been doing it, care about them and who they are. People buy off people fact! Id ask then if they got a budget, explain what they can get and not get and just be honest if its really, really not worth your time tell them dont be afraid to walk away so many people are and they end up loosing sleep over a project. Say this is how much you cost give them a quote (from experience you should be able to be pretty accurate) if in doubt arrange a meeting 2 days later. Explain why you charge what you do and how you would love to work with them, if you got to do some bs like "i tell you what karen i can't do much on the price like you i got a child to feed (smile) but i can give you the design alterations free" I dont give a dam about design alterations that is my price, ill charge her one hour less (I add x hours for BS anyway) just because you like her. Make her feel good, have a banter with a guy if they think they are getting something for nothing its win win. I'm not going into to much detail incase this gets indexed (lol) but if you want more detail ill happy send you some stuff via email, even if you want to work over email ill help you come up with a pack you can send them, question forms and all that. Every site should be a portfolio site, fact, no bs about how the client destroys the design your there and employed by them sort it. Note : find out a little about who they are if they email from gmail etc so you dont walk into a board room in shorts, t-shirts and flip flops (voice of experience) Edited June 23, 201115 yr by pandadoodle
June 23, 201115 yr You need to establish early on that you are the expert in this relationship. You're not desperate to land their project, you're looking to get as much information out of them as you can in order to a ) vet whether they're the sort of client you'd be prepared to work with and b ) determine exactly what they require. You're not looking for "I need a website with about 5-6 pages", you need to really drill down to the details of why they need a website, what their business goals are and how the website will solve these goals. They may say they need a CMS, but unless they've budgeted time and/or copywriting to update it frequently, they might be better off budgeting for a copywriter during the design process and having a static site, because a CMS they don't use is a waste of your time and their money. Use the preliminary meeting, phone conversation or email exchange to weigh them up and to give them free advice, much the same way a solicitor or accountant will offer a free hour to a potential client. Always remember: you're a consultant, not a merchant. Edited June 23, 201115 yr by Renaissance-Design
June 23, 201115 yr Dont go giving any client free advice until they sign the contract, id only tell them something for nothing if it wasnt worth my time
June 23, 201115 yr I haven't actually used any contracts as of yet :s I wouldn't worry on £100 (no offense) but if you want one simple one i got for free sometime ago send me your email or email me, getting stung for a few grand makes you change your business practice
June 23, 201115 yr Dont go giving any client free advice until they sign the contract, id only tell them something for nothing if it wasnt worth my time It's not something for nothing if it's for the purpose of establishing your authority, landing the project and setting boundaries. Call it a loss leader.
June 23, 201115 yr I haven't actually used any contracts as of yet :s Try Andy Clarke's Contract Killer.
June 23, 201115 yr Always remember: you're a consultant, not a merchant. Id have to disagree with this again, your not a consultant your a merchant on merchant start pulling in the high figures and not looking for clients then its the other way around. If your looking for clients your selling a service just like the customer your signing up. If someone asked me to do a talk on web design and was prepared to pay me £100-200 p.h then id call myself a consultant until then no
June 23, 201115 yr It's not something for nothing if it's for the purpose of establishing your authority, landing the project and setting boundaries. Call it a loss leader. What authority? So you stand over your clients banging your chest do you? You know more than them do you? I land the project by signing the contract. I set the boundaries by not kissing my client or texting them after the job is done or during the job. Put the books down and sell your services not give it away for free, I had a builder come in to quote me on a new roof he offered his advice on how he would do it (as i suggested above) but he didnt give me any tips about doing it my self or nothing that would cost him the job. Real world we live in here where people do this to earn an income
June 23, 201115 yr Just a quick on on contracts anyone downloading one now or asking for an old freelance gift pack i got give even if they are decent ones nothing beats having your solicitor look it over and alter to suit you so you know what is in there and its water tight, i tend to make sure mine have an equal give between me and the client so if my delivery is late i get penalties applied etc etc
June 23, 201115 yr Id have to disagree with this again, your not a consultant your a merchant on merchant start pulling in the high figures and not looking for clients then its the other way around. If your looking for clients your selling a service just like the customer your signing up.If someone asked me to do a talk on web design and was prepared to pay me £100-200 p.h then id call myself a consultant until then no A client is coming to you to solve a business problem by application of your knowledge and skills. By that definition, you're a consultant and a professional. You're not selling a product, so you're not a merchant. What authority? So you stand over your clients banging your chest do you? You know more than them do you? I land the project by signing the contract. I set the boundaries by not kissing my client or texting them after the job is done or during the job. Put the books down and sell your services not give it away for free, I had a builder come in to quote me on a new roof he offered his advice on how he would do it (as i suggested above) but he didnt give me any tips about doing it my self or nothing that would cost him the job. Real world we live in here where people do this to earn an income I'm mostly talking about authority in the sense of knowledge, rather than hierarchy. The average builder's client will accept that the builder is the one with the specialised knowledge and defer to them on technical matters. Not so much with web design. Yes, I know more than my clients about design theory, technical constraints and the ecosystem of the Web; that's why they're coming to me instead of doing it themselves. Not establishing clear boundaries about roles and responsibilities before embarking on the project can lead to wasted effort and sub-standard work. It's the client's role to communicate to us the problems they're trying to solve, it's our job to solve those problems. Without these boundaries in place, we get requests like "make the logo bigger", which aren't helpful. That's a fairly easy one to figure out, what it actually means is that the client is worried about the visual prominence of their branding relative to the design as a whole. As designers, we know that making something bigger is not the only way of affecting visual hierarchy, so if there's a better solution we can find it but if a little time is taken at the start to establish roles and boundaries, the client will come to us with the problem rather than a half-baked solution of their own. A lot of clients, especially small business owners, will never have commissioned design before. Because they feel out of their depth, they may try to establish their authority by dictating elements of the design on a whim - this isn't desirable, because every element of the design should be there to serve a specific purpose. A client may be trying to dictate elements of a design in order to establish authority (in the hierarchy sense) in some internal P****** contest with other members of a committee. Again, that's harmful to the project because these details should be determined strictly on the grounds of what will be most effective in solving the client's business problem, whether it's increasing newsletter signups or increasing checkout success. Edited June 23, 201115 yr by Renaissance-Design
June 23, 201115 yr Just a quick on on contracts anyone downloading one now or asking for an old freelance gift pack i got give even if they are decent ones nothing beats having your solicitor look it over and alter to suit you so you know what is in there and its water tight, i tend to make sure mine have an equal give between me and the client so if my delivery is late i get penalties applied etc etc Sound advice.
June 23, 201115 yr Your not a consultant, are you giving them a website? Yes, thats your product thats what your selling. This is the other problem with web development today people thinking they are bigger than what they are. I don't want to go into a P****** contents site for site, client for client and so on but c'mon you really consider your self a "consultant" ? Your set the limits in the outline of the project what you offer for x, thats what a contract is for, a verbal agreement saying you will do x for y without anything on paper is crazy. It never ever works the way your saying up there thats why people have contracts. No most small business would never have commissioned a design but then your not an artist, your a designer they have experience dealing with trades men or people with skill treating them any other way is narrow minded. Then again maybe we have different client types...
June 23, 201115 yr I set the boundaries by not kissing my client or texting them after the job is done or during the job. I don't. One of my freelance clients about 2.5 years ago - I might have kissed her. A little bit. Ended up going out with her for a year and a half haha .
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