In light of whats been posted on here since I've been a member I think these are a good resource for anyone on here :

 

I have no talent

 

How not to freelance

Excellent articles especially the no talent one.

I've met a few graphic designers for example (obviously not the ones on here) before who told me they'd really like to get into web design but didn't want to go near any coding because they thought they couldn't do it, it confused them etc. - well we all started out like that.

I really enjoyed the article and I know many of us here can relate. I feel like creating an 404 page with that message quoted on it.

 

And I agree with you gibson. One major reason most incoming designer and developers are afraid of is taking that initiative to make mistake. It is mistake and practice that makes us not great but decent at what we do. It is mistakes and learning from those mistakes that makes a designer/developer.

Edited June 25, 201115 yr by Sazzad

Id agree with you Gibson although at the moment id consider myself more of a web graphic designer at the moment! I've not done a single job yet that requires me coding! If I can keep it that way id be happy lol

Question is - does it work the other way round? Can someone with not a lot of art talent or inspiration become a good graphic designer with a lot of practise?

Question is - does it work the other way round? Can someone with not a lot of art talent or inspiration become a good graphic designer with a lot of practise?

 

I seriously doubt it. There are 2 professions in the world that require talent: music and art. If you don't have the musical hearing you're never gonna be a good musician. The same goes for artistic types - if you don't have "artist's hand" you'll never be able to draw, hence be a good graphic designer or whatever. There was a dude in my highschool class who drew "The last supper" replica with a damn graphite pencil on his desk - that's what I call a talent. And no matter how much I "practiced" I couldn't draw $hit.

 

P.S. I had Gibson SG Special faded, good old days, heh.

Drawing is not a talent anyone can draw or be shown how to draw, anyone can be shown how to be a musician you might be not be great but after allot of practice you can become better this is what the articles are about.

 

So Gibson the answer is yes, there is no such thing as "talent" its just hard work

Drawing is not a talent anyone can draw or be shown how to draw, anyone can be shown how to be a musician you might be not be great but after allot of practice you can become better this is what the articles are about.

 

So Gibson the answer is yes, there is no such thing as "talent" its just hard work

 

Oh dear pandadoodle, that's a huge insult to those talented people in the world and i feel a debate coming on.....

 

Talent isn't something you learn it's something you can do naturally. You can certainly build on talent but you can't teach it. I am a youth football coach and i have been coaching for over three years with the same set of players. There is one player i remember who couldn't run with the ball without tripping over it and now after three years he can finally do it and is one of my best players. Is that talent....no!.

 

On the other hand, i had a boy for a year now who can do things with the football that i can't even do now. He has great balance and runs rings around players. He is that good that he is has been scouted for the Colchester United football academy and is doing well. The boy is so good that his team mates are starting to resent him. Is that talent? At eight years of age and the fact that he only started kicking a ball around last season, then yes i reckon that is don't you? He has a natural ability to play footy and a good understanding of the game and if the Academy builds on that then he will be a very good player and who knows where it will take him?

 

Here is another one for ya....

 

I used to be a dance Dj(back in the day) and had a mate who wanted to learn how to mix. He got himself a pair of decks, borrowed some of my records and tried in vain to become good enough to get noticed and start playing in clubs. But, he is, by all means as tone deaf as stevie wonder. Even after hours of lessons and years of practice he still can't mix to records together without giving you an ear ache! His name is tony and he calls himself DJ tone def. So if your ever out clubbing and see him on the playing list.....GET OUT QUICK!

 

So the moral of my long stories is that you can't teach talent and you never ever will! You can only build on it.

 

I rest my case!

 

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by neilp

People say I have a talent for martial arts and I wasn't born with a black belt around my waist its just something I've stuck at and become good at it, yes you could say its become natural to me and thats "talent" but half the great composers in the world didnt pop out with a keyboard in hand..

 

I think the point is being missed by a mile here.

 

Using your example above there about the boy with the ball

 

You got someone you can run with it and do all the ticks first time off and you may class that as talent yes?

 

But after a few years the guy who couldnt do it has learnt everything as the other players through hard work, and can perform on the same level as the other players if not better, so is he now not talented?

 

EDIT

 

As for upsetting people, as I hang around here more you will notice that I have a "talent" for that

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by pandadoodle

There clearly is such a thing as talent. Mozart composed his first pieces at 5 years of age. Some artists produce beautiful work with no formal training.

 

And on the other side of the coin, how many people do you know with a degree in music or fine art that produce merely good work? Nothing captivating, inspirational, meaningful; just pretty good? The difference is talent.

 

Yes, talent can be built on, and should be - and talents can be hidden. You sometimes don't discover them until later in life.

 

To deny that talent exists is to deny the diversity of humanity. Just because we're all equal, doesn't mean we're all the same.

 

Still, a spot-on article, though

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by notbanksy

People say I have a talent for martial arts and I wasn't born with a black belt around my waist its just something I've stuck at and become good at it, yes you could say its become natural to me and thats "talent" but half the great composers in the world didnt pop out with a keyboard in hand..

 

 

Well, there you go...you just contradicted yourself. It becomes natural! As for the great composers in the world, i am sure it became natural to them to. Otherwise they wouldn't do it would they. Have you tried playing a piano? I have and i would have had more fun smashing it up with the stool!

 

 

 

You got someone you can run with it and do all the ticks first time off and you may class that as talent yes?

 

 

Yes!

 

But after a few years the guy who couldn't do it has learn't everything as the other players through hard work, and can perform on the same level as the other players if not better, so is he now not talented?

 

No, the boy cannot and probably never will perform on the same level as the other 'scouted' player. Otherwise he would have been given the same opportunity.

 

 

As for upsetting people, as I hang around here more you will notice that I have a "talent" for that

 

Your not upsetting anyone....well, not me anyways it's healthy to have different opinions. But i think you are miss understanding the word talent and my point. But i get what you are saying. Yes you can teach someone how to draw but not as good as someone who is more naturally better at it. Someone who has a 'good eye for design' as they say in this industry. In my last job i worked with a designer who had come in as a junior. He has been working in photoshop for only two years but my boss has been using it for seven!

 

My boss was and probably still is amazed at what the lad can do.

 

Nice chatting by the way, and enjoyed the reading.

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by neilp

Drawing is not a talent anyone can draw or be shown how to draw, anyone can be shown how to be a musician you might be not be great but after allot of practice you can become better this is what the articles are about.

 

So Gibson the answer is yes, there is no such thing as "talent" its just hard work

 

"you might not be great" is like saying that "this guy might not be great in ballet because he weighs 120 kg". I played for 15 years with 5 instruments, I composed my own music and I have an Absolute pitch. I know what I'm talking about. Read on the first answer: here. Note the words "impossible to learn".

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by neverminder

Great articles. I think we should keep them pinned for noobs (ooo how elitist).

I particularly agree with the 'I have no talent' one. The only reason i am where i am isn't because i was talented in any way. It was because i was bored, ill, the weather was terrible and i was interested. I stuck at it and now find it a lot easier to come up with stuff and to build sites. Determination and practice won out.

 

On the other side of the fence i have swimming. From the moment i was plonked into a pool as a baby i had good technique and instantly swam around (and swum competitively for the next 14 years.) I barely practised but never lost the ability. This is natural talent (even if i do say so myself) I'm not the next Olympic swimmer but i didn't need to learn or practice to stay good at it.

 

Anyone can learn anything with practice, time and determination however those who are naturally talented in the area will learn easier, quicker and more efficiently.

 

Both individuals can reach the same level.

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by MikeChipshop

 

Anyone can learn anything with practice, time and determination however those who are naturally talented in the area will learn easier, quicker and more efficiently.

 

Agree

 

Both individuals can reach the same level.

 

Disagree! It takes talent, passion and determination to get to a level to where someone without talent but with the same amount of drive and determination will always strive to get to. Anyone can become good at there job but never on the same level? Otherwise i would be running around the football field like Lionel Messi.

Disagree! It takes talent, passion and determination to get to a level to where someone without talent but with the same amount of drive and determination will always strive to get to. Anyone can become good at there job but never on the same level? Otherwise i would be running around the football field like Lionel Messi.

 

Hmm you've actually got me thinking in two minds now.

On one hand i'm thinking i'd never be a professional footballer even if i went out and practised every single day ALL day, is this a physical limitation though?

 

On the other hand removing physical limitations, is this something i could do?

 

Of course physical limitations does extend to the brain... hmmmmm

 

 

Now i'm confused lol

Is talented and gifted the same?

Is talented and gifted the same?

 

Ooo

 

"I think therefore i think i am"

 

Sunday day time philosophy, so what is every one avoiding today then?

Personally i'm finishing a blog for a client that i've been putting off for some time but it's gotta be done by tomorrow :0

Agree

 

 

 

Disagree! It takes talent, passion and determination to get to a level to where someone without talent but with the same amount of drive and determination will always strive to get to. Anyone can become good at there job but never on the same level? Otherwise i would be running around the football field like Lionel Messi.

 

As an engineer I have to disagree too. Talent is a physical feature, it's genetic. Saying that "Both individuals can reach the same level." is like saying that I can paint as good as DaVinci if I practice my ass off, but we all know that's not true. Specific physical features (talents) that can't be learned include:

 

Absolute pitch (music)

Artists eye or hand or whatever you call it (art, drawing, sculpture, etc)

Photographic memory

 

There are probably more.

 

Hmm you've actually got me thinking in two minds now.

On one hand i'm thinking i'd never be a professional footballer even if i went out and practised every single day ALL day, is this a physical limitation though?

 

On the other hand removing physical limitations, is this something i could do?

 

Of course physical limitations does extend to the brain... hmmmmm

 

 

Now i'm confused lol

 

LOL! me to! But i think football is a good example of people working on the same job but not on the same level. However, i would never look at a talented person and say i can't do that. If it's something i am interested in, feel passionate about then i would feel determined to reach similar goals, but unlikely to reach the same level - unless i have talent?

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by neilp

 

Absolute pitch (music)

Artists eye or hand or whatever you call it (art, drawing, sculpture, etc)

Photographic memory

 

There are probably more.

 

The average human doesn't display these characteristics due to physical limitations?

 

 

LOL! me to! But i think football is a good example of people working on the same job but not on the same level. However, i would never look at a talented person and say i can't do that. If it's something i am interested in, feel passionate about then i would feel determined to reach similar goals, but unlikely to reach the same level - unless i have talent?

 

I'm happy to accept this as fact lol. Cheers

Its either the heat and sunday beer but I must be thick... everyone seems to be confusing talent with skill?

 

"If it's something i am interested in, feel passionate about then i would feel determined to reach similar goals, but unlikely to reach the same level - unless i have talent? "

 

Id rather class talent as a natural ability, because how do you know your talented until you have a go?

 

As for avoiding its the weekend and my wife has a job list...

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by pandadoodle

photographic memory is not a talent? is it?

The average human doesn't display these characteristics due to physical limitations?

 

Of course. Just as some of us have perfect eyesight and some have to wear glasses from little days. You can't really grow 2 meters high if it's not in your genes now can you? Some genetic features are just less noticeable than others, those are the features I talked about.

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by neverminder

 

Id rather class talent as a natural ability, because how do you know your talented until you have a go?

 

 

Exactly. If you haven't got natural ability then your not talented. This natural ability will more than likely show from 'having a go!' at something. Anyway, perhaps we should just agree to disagree? I think the word 'talent' can be defined in a few ways but some people have more than others and in my eyes can't be taught? Just found!

 

 

Happy Sunday all

 

 

As for avoiding its the weekend and my has a job list...

 

 

 

Going to try and avoid this forum from now as i have wasted enough time on here when i should really be working on my next tutorial for the web designer mag (a little self promo, thank you)

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by neilp

Not read the whole thread just skimmed through some of it. For me whoever mentioned being gifted and talented as hitting the nail on the head. Comparing it with football if you compare Ronaldinho and Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldo is a very talented footballer who is that good because he trains very hard, Ronaldinho is naturally gifted and can do things Ronaldo could only dream of but that's not to say Ronaldo isn't a good player and you can improve and still be good without being naturally gifted.

My personal take is that someone who has natural talent will get further than someone who doesn't IF they put in the same amount of work.

But here's the kicker - it's a strange phenomena that some people with natural talent can become lazy, relying on their talent alone to see them through. Meanwhile the maybe not-so-gifted individual will work extra hard to make up that gap, and often end up more skillful at that particular activity than the talented person.

It takes a lot of hard work whether you have talent or not to become good at something. Talent alone will not wing it. But the talented individual has more untapped potential than the non talented individual.

Now the coding thing - well untalented individuals can learn how to code well, after all these languages we use for web stuff are high level. But you take an extreme low level language (not sure what they're called nowadays but when I was young they were machine code / assembler etc.) and perhaps now you'll start to see the difference. I would compare it to maths. Anyone can learn maths to a certain level with some hard work, but degree level maths? Well you probably need some natural talent in there as well.

 

I do class talent as seperate from skill as well. Skill is an indication of proficiency, obtainable by talented and non talented individuals, so it's not necessarily an indication of talent (maybe there's a lot of hard work behind it). But a talented individual putting in the same amount of work as an untalented one will ultimately end up with more skill.

 

Try learning to be a concert violinist without any talent - you won't get very far.

 

Pandadoodle - another martial artist here. Which one do you do? I have a 2nd Dan in Shotokan. It's an interesting example actually because I find that I have a fair amount of "talent" or natural ability when it comes to the hand work, but the leg work I struggle with due to the stiff shape of my hips. Demonstrating that it's also possible to have talent in some areas of a discipline, but struggle with others.

 

Fortunately, Shotokan is not as leg orientated as something like kickboxing which I feel I'd be fairly useless at, so I get by. Where I have the trouble is with kicking high, which is not so much required (not in trad Shotokan anyway).

Also - "1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" is a good phrase to apply to this thread I think.

A phrase that a lot of naturally talented people could do with taking notice of slightly more IMHO. That's why they often get overtaken by people with less talent. It's like the Hare and Tortoise race.

OSU!

 

4th dan kyokushin 3rd dan traditional japanese jujitsu have my own club / association handed over to me by my instructor before he died all low kick etc combat kickboxing (do allot of non complaint SD) aprox 350 students strong or was till my knees finally gave up on me.

 

I've done an 18 month intensive silat training course also, and have experience in various other arts

 

OSU!

Should mention my hand work is now much as you described I used to be able to put a TKDer to shame but my knees just can't take a beating like they use to but I can still make a 120Kg 6ft heavy bag swing with a solid round house.

 

I've boxed a fair bit but day to day at home all my kata work is focused on the hands and so is training, muscle memory, twitch fibers and all the other jazz is better than its ever been compared to my prime just by drilling them over and over...

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by pandadoodle

OSU!

 

4th dan kyokushin 3rd dan traditional japanese jujitsu have my own club / association handed over to me by my instructor before he died all low kick etc combat kickboxing (do allot of non complaint SD) aprox 350 students strong or was till my knees finally gave up on me.

 

I've done an 18 month intensive silat training course also, and have experience in various other arts

 

OSU!

 

Ok, maybe we ought to call you "Sir" from now on. Not in the Indian spammer way, though

 

See here's the difference - I've been working hard at Shotokan for years and managed to get a 2nd Dan with some difficulty. Compared to what Pandadoodle's doing which IMHO is only really acheivable with a fair amount of natural talent.

You do have natural talent in martial arts, Panda but you've combined it with hard work. I think you don't REALISE that you're naturally talented because of course it's impossible for you to swap places with someone like me who has to work a bit harder at it. So in a way, you know no different.

 

Mike will know what I mean guitar-wise. It's when you bump into someone that practises guitar 4 hours a day yet still can't play what you play with no practise at all that you realise that you have a natural talent. My double bass playing is coming along nicely and seems very natural to me as well, which makes me think that hopefully I have a certain degree of natural talent in that area.

 

Edit - and OSU! to you too Panda. You crazy nutter.

Edited June 26, 201115 yr by Gibson

The other point is as has been raised before in this thread, sometimes natural talent isn't apparent until a fair amount of time and hard work has been dedicated to the discipline in question. Back to the guitar again - the number of times I've seen people proclaim themselves as "useless" after 2 weeks. I tell them you need to give it a coupe of years before evaluating whether you're going to be any good.

Hence, I think a lot of people don't realise how naturally talented they are in a lot of things due to not giving it a chance. Sad really.

How long you been training Gibson?

 

I been going about 25 now this dec, I got given my 3rd and 4th without testing mind 2 weeks before my instructor passed I took it more as a sign of respect and have never graded again in any other or nor do I wish to progress either out of respect.

 

Only thing Id like is a level 3 or 4 boxing coaching award but as far as TMA goes will go no higher as far as paper and belts are concerned, which makes it hard to train as most clubs want you to join in and grade to get the bloody belts. I could rant for hours about MA lol...

I think about 18 years now. Unfortunately my training has been a bit sparodic for about 10 of those due to a chronic frozen shoulder which still gives me guff, but I think I've worked through it (Jesus that's painful if you've ever had it). I think I got my 1st Dan after about 10 or 12, and my 2nd after about 16. I think if it hadn't been for my shoulder I would have got to 2nd in about 10-12 not 16. Also if I'd actually bothered to do the gradings sooner - I was never really bothered about grades, being more interested in the art itself. My instructor had to nag me to take my 1st and 2nd Dans. I think I lacked in confidence a bit.

 

Actually I do myself down a bit, my legs may be stiff, but that leads to me being able to throw devastating kicks of up to waist height, they're just not very technical that's all. My old favourite is the back of the knee or upper leg muscle crippling roundhouse (you know like the low chopping Muay Thai one) which I'm quite good at. Also I have a very strong stance for a tall bloke (I'm 6'1"). I find that sometimes the people with more flexible hips don't actually have as much power in the kicks as those with stiff hips, if that makes sense? Perhaps it's a trade off.

Also I find that I can do some kicks with one leg and not the other, and vice versa.

I'm told by the other people in the class that my talent is blocking - no one wants to spar with me because I always hurt them with my blocks inadvertently, I have very hard forearms and very forceful blocks.

 

So for me Karate is a mixed bag of some areas coming naturally and some areas being very difficult. I think the thing I have most problem with are the side kicks, they knacker me out quickly due to having very long legs and unusually stiff hips.

The area I like the most and seems to come most naturally is close in hand work, especially elbows . In other words, I guess more the "street" type applications come more naturally to me.

I dropped kicking above the waist 10-12 years ago when my self defence training started to go full hog get 3-4 guys padded up in High Gear (google it) then go full on 5-10 min hell of a work out but things you thought that would work really don't its funny how much my training has changed as a result of it.

 

As for blocking I know what you your saying was many a time where an hour of the class was focused on blocking tools only wrist on wrist over and over doing that day in day out for 6 days a week then competing on a sunday hardened you up a bit ontop of the conditioning kyokushin has a rep for!