Hi Guys,

 

I've got a project coming up in the next few weeks for an existing website that requires a re-design, and I have noticed that the existing site has a "news & events" section. Now I assume the client is going to want to keep this section of the site, when I do the re-design, but I have still not got my feet wet with using Database CMS stuff (I've just not got round to it for ages and keep putting it off!).

 

The problem I have is deciding wether to pick up my PHP/MySQL book and absolutely batter it!!! And learn to add a CMS system which would be hand-coded....

 

Or simply to use Wordpress for now to just sort out this particular task (Wordpress seems like the best option for just a "news & events" section).

 

Now it might seem like the obvious answer would be to use Wordpress, but I am thinking "long-term" skills development here. Learning to do it by hand I could develop more complex systems like shopping-carts, larger information databases etc for more "lucrative" bigger projects in the future.

 

Am I making much sense here? Or am I not seeing the true potential of "off the shelf" packages for large scale projects in the future? (Its just that it all seems like a minefield out there... Joomla / Expression Engine / Mambo etc etc - and in the back of my head something is just saying "learn PHP/MySQL" so you can understand it all clearly!).

 

I already have a bit of a head start with PHP - I use a lot of includes and short bits of php to "glue" pages together with templated php files. Its just database design that scares me!!!

 

Sorry for the ramble!!!

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Karlos

It would probably take you months or even years to write a secure and flexible CMS, and bearing the limited time you have using an off the shelf CMS will allow you to get stuck in without too much hassle. By using something like Wordpress you'd probably dip your toe in the water with a bit of PHP but nothing too complex.

 

You also might want to look at a CMS that will meet the requirements of the site and the owner. Wordpress is fine out of the box for a single Weblog with categories, but if you really want to go to town with flexibility go for Expressionengine - in fact with EE you don't need to know any PHP at all and you'll find you can do virtually anything with it's multi-weblog and templating system.

 

Joomla/Mambo I personally avoid like the plague

 

Wordpress is free and you can download the free core version of EE - give them both a go!

I would personally recommend you learn php / mysql in your spare time, and stick to pre-built cms' for the time being.

 

1) CMS' already exist, and as such they already have been tested, have a good support community, and plenty of people to turn to if something goes wrong.

 

2) SECURITY. This is the biggest thing you'll need to learn when you eventually come to write your own CMS.

Thanks for the feedback blue dreamer / Rachael

 

I am going to explore Wordpress for this next project, but I will look into Expression Engine (Light free version) as a secondary option.

 

I tried to have a look at Joomla a while ago and it was just "too confusing" for an introduction into this area of web design.

 

I would really like to learn more advanced PHP/MySQL, as I like to know exactly whats going behind the scenes so you can analyse problems more efficiently. But as you say Rachael, there is a security stability issue to address, if you havent got the experience etc.

 

I have a really good PHP/MySQL book by Larry Ullman published by PeachPit Press, which covers all the main areas of PHP/MySQL (and I am 3-4 chapters into it so I already have reasonable head start).

 

Thinking long term though as far as "out of the box" software goes would Wordpress or Expression Engine be able to handle shopping cart websites and anything more complex of that nature? I guess you would outgrow these systems at that stage?

 

karlos

The good thing about Wordpress is that you can use plug-ins such as the e-commerce plugin.

 

You just need to find what works best for you, and what works best for your clients. Have an experiment. Do as much research as you can. Try with test installations so you can experiment and stuff.

The good thing about Wordpress is that you can use plug-ins such as the e-commerce plugin.

 

You just need to find what works best for you, and what works best for your clients. Have an experiment. Do as much research as you can. Try with test installations so you can experiment and stuff.

 

I certainly plan to do so now! I'm all fired up and ready to go as of tomorrow!

 

I'm glad I put this post on tonight. Its cleared my head a bit, for what goals I need to accomplish!

Thinking long term though as far as "out of the box" software goes would Wordpress or Expression Engine be able to handle shopping cart websites and anything more complex of that nature? I guess you would outgrow these systems at that stage?

 

I haven't used WP for ages because I'm an EE convert so can only really speak for that... lol.

 

EE's default shopping cart is defined as "simple", in that it's only really good for single item purchases or memberships and only works with Paypal. It will be developed further over time though.

 

Once you get to grips with how EE works (ie any combination of weblogs/categories and templates, permissions, custom fields etc) you suddenly realise it's ability to be turned into any sort of content site. It is very very powerful and it will literally expand your mind if you've been used to something like WP.

 

By "shopping cart" that's a wide open question. If you want all the bells and whistles of a cart system then probably neither WP or EE would be suitable (they're Blogs/CMS's not shops!). There are a lot of good cart systems around and even more s**t ones. I've settled into using www.jshop.co.uk because I can build a shop how I want and not how the software dictates, I'm not limited by design or how to display categories/products or other information - total freedom!

for a shopping cart Cubecart seems very good from all I have read, with zencart seeming to be in 2nd place, it works with nice css and layouts and has all the payment gateway intefaces built in. I bought a copy and have designed a couple of skins for it, all quite simple and easy to work with.

 

Re:learning php vs using wordpress, I just recently put wordpress on 2lb.co.uk and I'm quite pleased with it, you can tweak to your heart's content and just strip out whole sections if you so desire, it will help you get started with php, tweaking an off the shelf cms too. I agree that joomla and mambo, phpnuke etc are a nightmare to work with in my limited experience... hth

I haven't used WP for ages because I'm an EE convert so can only really speak for that... lol.

 

EE's default shopping cart is defined as "simple", in that it's only really good for single item purchases or memberships and only works with Paypal. It will be developed further over time though.

 

Once you get to grips with how EE works (ie any combination of weblogs/categories and templates, permissions, custom fields etc) you suddenly realise it's ability to be turned into any sort of content site. It is very very powerful and it will literally expand your mind if you've been used to something like WP.

 

By "shopping cart" that's a wide open question. If you want all the bells and whistles of a cart system then probably neither WP or EE would be suitable (they're Blogs/CMS's not shops!). There are a lot of good cart systems around and even more s**t ones. I've settled into using www.jshop.co.uk because I can build a shop how I want and not how the software dictates, I'm not limited by design or how to display categories/products or other information - total freedom!

 

You guys have really got me thinking about keeping with "off the shelf" products such as EE / WP now!

 

Like I mentioned above I am going to start off with WP and then try out the free EE, and take it from there.

 

Thanks bluedreamer!

for a shopping cart Cubecart seems very good from all I have read, with zencart seeming to be in 2nd place, it works with nice css and layouts and has all the payment gateway intefaces built in. I bought a copy and have designed a couple of skins for it, all quite simple and easy to work with.

 

Re:learning php vs using wordpress, I just recently put wordpress on 2lb.co.uk and I'm quite pleased with it, you can tweak to your heart's content and just strip out whole sections if you so desire, it will help you get started with php, tweaking an off the shelf cms too. I agree that joomla and mambo, phpnuke etc are a nightmare to work with in my limited experience... hth

 

thanks 2lb,

 

Yeah, I a while ago I initially thought using WP would limit what you could with the design of the site (ie you would be restricted to a WP style template, and I didnt realise you can totally customise it!).

 

I have heard "cubecart" mentioned and recommended before quite a few months back, so thats an option in the future.

 

But WP it is to begin with... then EE .... etc etc

^ Oh, you can do whatever you like to WP... It's great.

^ Oh, you can do whatever you like to WP... It's great.

 

I look forward to using wordpress, after a good nights sleep!

 

By the way I want to thank you once again for a PHP Include tip you gave me before xmas, I have used them on everything I have done so far (including some of my earlier projects) they are just great for templating stuff!

 

Cant live without them now!

Haha, yay! Includes are so useful. They really do lighten the workload, and they make updating templates so much easier.

Joomla/Mambo I personally avoid like the plague

 

I'd be interested to know more about this. I'm using Joomla for one site, but I don't like it. I'm not sure whether it's because I haven't put the time into learning it properly, or whether it's because it's built by the demons of counter-intuition...

I'd be interested to know more about this. I'm using Joomla for one site, but I don't like it. I'm not sure whether it's because I haven't put the time into learning it properly, or whether it's because it's built by the demons of counter-intuition...

 

 

Well I'll keep you posted when I learn more about Wordpress, as it might suit you more than Joomla? (Like I say, I was really put off by Joomla once I started installing it, and going through the guides for it, so I ended up putting it on hold).

I have a website (not blog) already built that my client would like to update themselves.

 

Joomla looks 'orrible to me.

 

I always assumed that WordPress was just for building Blogs, though everyone seems to be raving its CMS capabilities.

 

I'm not incredibly proficient with MySQL/PHP, so not as clever as Rachael building her own CMS!

 

Accepting that this may elicit different answers from different people, which is the best CMS (in my circumstances) for a site that is already built?

 

Is it better to build a site on a CMS, or to bolt a CMS onto a site after it is already built?

 

Sorry for the daft questions!

Well... CMS literally stands for content management system, so... you don't really "bolt it on" to an existing site. It's a new way to manage your content to save you having to update every single page manually.

 

Building blogs is a large part of what Wordpress can do, but it's not the be all and end all. In fact, you don't even have to use the blogging features if you don't want to.

 

Asking the question "which is the best CMS for me?" is like asking "which is the best car for me?"

 

The first thing you need to do is work out what you want your CMS to do. What sort of content do you have? What features do you need? Can we see your existing site?

 

And don't worry. No question is too daft. *hugs*

It's a static html /css site for an Au Pair agency. Can't see that there would be many updates to be honest.

 

The owner wants to have the ability, herself, to be able to change text and maybe photos that are built into the site, as and when she wants, without having to call me up to do it for her.

 

I've used (ex-)Macromedia Contribute on a site before. It made it easy for the customer, but it was a bit annoying as they had to buy software and install it on there own PC.

 

I've looked at Joomla, but am finding that a real job to fathom out.

 

The pages of the site are already built. Is it too late to enable her to do this easily?

If it's mostly just static pages, you can setup something like Wordpress, edit the templates (which is pretty much copying and pasting the header and footer of your website, assuming they're consistent on each page, into a few files), and then copy and paste the content into new 'pages' created in the CMS system.