I have been teaching myself to design websites for a year or so, using Photoshop to create mockups, and taking part in design contest on 99 Designs. I'm not much good at coding, I only focus on designing the look of the website.

I have noticed these website builders that let you just design a website by a drag and drop method: Wix, Squarespace, Wordpress and Beaver Builder etc.

My question is, do you think it would be a good idea to learn to use one of these to help me to become better at designing websites?

nope. better to look at using adobe XD which is free or part of your creative suite if you have a subscription. website builders are pretty much a dead end / unless you can specialise in becoming proficient in them in order to help clients that struggle with them, but then you'll still face the same limitations. 

 

https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/xd.html

Edited April 8, 20197 yr by davep

1 hour ago, James Davidson said:

I have noticed these website builders that let you just design a website by a drag and drop method: Wix, Squarespace, Wordpress and Beaver Builder etc.

My question is, do you think it would be a good idea to learn to use one of these to help me to become better at designing websites?

Nope. don't do this.

Team up with a developer who can convert your ideas into a website.

But....

Your method of designing a website is outdated. Websites need to be responsive and different pages will have different requirements. So you need think in terms of elements rather than the whole page.

Thanks guys, I'm going to learn how to use adobe XD  😁

Although Page builders are optional. You must give a try to Page builders like https://elementor.com/ 

7 hours ago, James Davidson said:

Thanks guys, I'm going to learn how to use adobe XD  😁

Ok....

And then what? It’s a design tool useful for mockups. It’s of little value if you want to create working website designs.

Website builders are fine if you are a new business or want to test the waters before investing either time and money.

Even knowing I can build a webshop from scratch I would still start off using Shopify to see that what I am looking to sell actually has a market and it's worth investing my time.

If you actually want to learn more about design then look at tools like Sketch or Figma and learn basics of HTML and CSS - don't use a sitebuilder.

Remember that design and development are two different things.  Lots of good developers will pair up with with designers and vice versa.

Edited April 11, 20197 yr by rbrtsmith

On 4/9/2019 at 1:46 PM, robbydesigns said:

James, I would recommend you learn some code even if it's "just" HTML and CSS, that way you'll only design what can be coded. I think you'll find it hard to earn any money in web design anyway.

I know plenty of designers at places I've worked (Sainsbury's, Sky, Moonpig) who earn decent salaries.  I know some freelancers too who make good money, although the vast majority of them built up strong reps in the companies they worked for before breaking out alone.

The reason I asked about learning to use a website builder as I thought it might be a good way of learning the basics of how to make a visually appealing website as I could turn any ideas into a website. I don't know, maybe it is a dumb idea after all.

I have been learning to use Figma, and I plan to use it to design my next website.

On 4/9/2019 at 1:46 PM, robbydesigns said:

James, I would recommend you learn some code even if it's "just" HTML and CSS, that way you'll only design what can be coded. I think you'll find it hard to earn any money in web design anyway. 

I have already learned to code with HTML and CSS, but I would rather not do that as I just want to focus on designing how the website looks. Do you think that is a waste of time as I will find it too hard to earn a living that way? I thought that in a design agency, there are designers that design the site, and then when they are finished, hand it off to a developer to turn it into a working site.

Edited April 27, 20197 yr by James Davidson

16 minutes ago, James Davidson said:

 thought that in a design agency, there are designers that design the site, and then when they are finished, hand it off to a developer to turn it into a working site.

In a design agency the designers and developers work hand in hand. Sites are designed as individual elements then compiled into the whole. For example, the site content will be ordered and structured which then identifies the optimal menu links which the the designer can then style.

The idea of getting asking a designer to create a set of layouts for each type of page and how they will work on different devices isn't an effective technique.

On 4/28/2019 at 9:27 AM, robbydesigns said:

What I was saying is if you choose to be a Freelancer, there is no money in it trust me. Just take a look at Dribbble and the millions of people doing designs on there, then look at a job board like PeoplePerHour and see how much people actually pay. It's a waste of time. I learned for 3 years (an Open University style course) plus countless online courses and 10 years later I'd say I've not made much more than it cost me to learn.

There is loads of money in freelancing.  The problem is those platforms, business owners aren't going to know or care about Dribble.  You are better off going direct, people per hour and places like that are where cheap skates (Not the kind of business owners you want to work with) go to get somebody next to nothing.

You want to find a business owner who cares more about value than bottom line cost.  It's better value to pay an excellent designer who's proven in creating designs that will boost conversion rate £45/h than it is to pay somebody £10/h who's going to make a mess and waste your time.

Seek out those business owners and turn away those who are just wanting something cheap.  This is much easier if you have proven industry experience before going freelance.  If you start freelance first you have a bit of an uphill battle to gain a reputation but it can be done.
All I'm saying is that if you have a couple of logos on your website like "I worked for the BBC, Sky, AirBnb" that will likely generate attention that this individual knows their stuff.

 

The agency I worked for in my first job started off with a pair of freelancers who had no reputation but worked extremely hard to build up a solid rep - focusing on how their work will generate revenue rather than creating beautiful designs.  Business owners want to know how their investment of money into a website will translate into profit.  If you can convince them your new website will generate an extra £20,000 per year of revenue then you can easily charge £15-20k for design and build, especially so when you have a proven track record.

Edited April 29, 20197 yr by rbrtsmith

Pretty much all my work is freelancing (aka self employed).

Once you find a niche and refine your processes there is plenty of money out there.

What doesn’t pay the bills is creating website designs in photoshop.

14 hours ago, robbydesigns said:

Design full stop I'd say. There always seems to be work for Coders but design is a flooded niche. I've been doing it for 10 years. Whether you design with Photoshop, XD, InVision, whatever, waste of time. 

Like I've said before there's lots of well paid designers, I know of some who have only recently started i.e. began from scratch within the last 1-2 years and finding good quality employment.

Also some of the well paid people do use PhotoShop although it isn't the best tool TBH.  Figma seems to have superseeded sketch as the goto tool.  Although I think the best experience is still doing it directly in the browser with a developer typing;

5 hours ago, rbrtsmith said:

Like I've said before there's lots of well paid designers, I know of some who have only recently started i.e. began from scratch within the last 1-2 years and finding good quality employment.

Also some of the well paid people do use PhotoShop although it isn't the best tool TBH.  Figma seems to have superseeded sketch as the goto tool.  Although I think the best experience is still doing it directly in the browser with a developer typing;

Every company is different. I wouldn't say Figma is more popular than Sketch, and both are so similar it's not much of a problem to transition. Airbnb use Sketch for example - https://airbnb.design/painting-with-code/.

It's less about tools though, they are just a means to an end. Knowing one over the other won't guarantee employment in the same way using Vim or VS Code won't as a developer.

My cousin has worked as a designer for over 10 years now, for some pretty big companies, but still freelances often. I would say it's a great time to be a designer, but expect it to be competitive.

You own a fridge!

luxury.

On 4/30/2019 at 1:35 PM, Jack said:

Every company is different. I wouldn't say Figma is more popular than Sketch, and both are so similar it's not much of a problem to transition. Airbnb use Sketch for example - https://airbnb.design/painting-with-code/.

It's less about tools though, they are just a means to an end. Knowing one over the other won't guarantee employment in the same way using Vim or VS Code won't as a developer.

My cousin has worked as a designer for over 10 years now, for some pretty big companies, but still freelances often. I would say it's a great time to be a designer, but expect it to be competitive.

Yeah I could have written that a bit better, I guess the point I'm trying to make like you have stated here is that it's a great time to be a designer, much like it is to be a developer.  That doesn't mean it's easy to get a foothold in the industry, but that can be said of most professions.

I am saying there is lots of money in freelancing.  You might be having a hard time but that doesn't necessarily  mean the industry is bad or over saturated.

I've seen the same from developers who are having a tough time freelancing but I can (like designers) point to many examples of successes.  The success mostly boils down to the individual, not entirely on their skillset but also their ability to market themselves.  The amount of time in the industry only very loosely correlates.
 

Edited May 2, 20197 yr by rbrtsmith

As a freelancer you often spend more time marketing than you do actually creating something. But when you do find your niche the money can come rolling in.

its not about being a designer, you need to be a designer with a twist.

A chap I know only ever does stuff for churches. And because churches talk to each other he gets loads of referral work. Everything from websites to posters, service cards and even prayer booklets.

The designers I know who are particularly successful in freelance market themselves around increasing conversion.  It's a massive selling point to a client to be able to demonstrate how their investment will generate a return (which will only happen if conversion increases)

No business owner in their right mind would sign off on an expensive re-design if they were not convinced that doing so would result in a conversion rate increase.  They focus almost entirely on this, even when talking about improved UX or more pleasing aesthetics they do so in a manner that demonstrates these improvements will create an uplift in conversion.  Note that "beautiful designs" often result in a reduction in conversion rates.

Around 60-70% of being a freelancer is being able to market and understanding the clients needs.  The kind of person who wants to spend the majority of their time actually doing design work would be far better off going working for a design agency - or contracting/consulting with one rather than going direct to clients.

Edited May 3, 20197 yr by rbrtsmith

Hi James

you would be better to team up with two or three coders so you design the website they build it. they would want to use your services for any of their customers if they are not good at design!!

Edited May 12, 20197 yr by drcensor