Hi, I hope you will be able to answer my question and sorry if it doesn't fit this category in the forum. I am a web developer. However, sadly, I have been made redundant from my previous workplace after around 18 months of work. I'm struggling to find work for the last 5 months. During that time I was working primarily on some private projects.

 

Now I am a little worried. If I find a job in web development will it be possible for my new employer to assess my web development knowledge in some X areas and provide this data to my previous employer?

 

Will it be possible for previous employer to sue me for poor knowledge on X technologies on that basis or on any other similar basis?

 

Thanks in advance for your replies,

D

Edited September 22, 201610 yr by Dam1987

Now I am a little worried. If I find a job in web development will it be possible for my new employer to assess my web development knowledge in some X areas and provide this data to my previous employer?

 

Will it be possible for previous employer to sue me for poor knowledge on X technologies on that basis or on any other similar basis?

 

I don't think this is legal, at least not in the UK. First, your new employer will never provide anything to a previous employer, they will however request a reference from your previous employer to which your old employer can only refuse a reference. Any tests you take for the new employer is for them, your old employer should have carried out the same tests themselves when employing you. Remember the tests are dependent on company application process, it's up to them if they give you the job. Remember your skill set will be ever changing, the developer you are today will not be the same skill set in two or three years time. Most employers look for someone they can take to the next level, so they have a developer who does things their way, the day you're employed the employer has seen you at your worst in their eyes, you'll only get better

A puzzling post. It always helps with anything concerning law, legal or employment matters to state which country you are living in as advice offered by users in other countries might be erroneous.

 

First off were you made redundant or were you dismissed?

 

If you were made redundant, why were you made redundant?

 

If you were dismissed, why were you dismissed?

 

I cannot understand why you think a prospective employer would go to your previous employer and tell them you are crap at say PHP. I used to employ people and never found or even considered phoning their former employer to tell them that they slurped their tea out of the saucer or ate their peas off their knife. If you are in the UK it is the responsibility of the employer to ensure through the application and interview process that they are offering the job to the best possible candidate, that meets their requirements.

 

Remember a CV is not a legal document and you can omit and invent as much crap as you like on it. This is why you must insist on applicants filling in an application form and signing it on the basis that all the information is true and correct to the best of their knowledge. This is a legal document and the employee then becomes liable to prosecution both civil and possibly criminal if they invent or omit anything.

 

It is unlikely they would sue over you not knowing something. If you were there for 18 months it certainly didn't appear to be a major issue and they clearly didn't do any testing in this field. As long as you didn't claim to hold qualifications you didn't actually have then the level of skill you might consider yourself is possibly different to the level of skill others might think you have. This is where formal qualifications start to tip the balance, they are a measurable and verifiable indicator of at least some level of competence.

 

It is actually more likely you would be sued for not informing your employer of any other skills you have. An employee is an asset of the business in the same way as a machine or vehicle and the employer holds the right to maximise ROI in that asset in order to benefit their business. By failing to disclose any skills or qualifications you could be held liable for hampering the legitimate expansion of the employers business.

It is actually more likely you would be sued for not informing your employer of any other skills you have. An employee is an asset of the business in the same way as a machine or vehicle and the employer holds the right to maximise ROI in that asset in order to benefit their business. By failing to disclose any skills or qualifications you could be held liable for hampering the legitimate expansion of the employers business.

 

Interesting. I didn't know not telling an employer you could do something or had a skill was a risk? Does it apply to any skill or only things you would consider applicable to the role?

 

Interesting. I didn't know not telling an employer you could do something or had a skill was a risk? Does it apply to any skill or only things you would consider applicable to the role?

 

I'm not sure to what level of diversification it could be held but if the skills have relevancy to the job and industry then you might be liable.

 

Consider this, I'm a time served engineer with qualifications in Plant, Mechanical and Electrical engineering, I also have qualifications in CAD and CNC programming. So I apply for and get a job as a web designer/developer with a small company. That company subsequently fails for whatever reason and then the boss discovers you have been hiding lights under bushels. The boss could be well within their rights to take out an action on the basis that if they had known about the skills you concealed they could have diversified into CAD/CAM based engineering services which could have meant the business did not fail as it had two distinct branches which could support each other when business went slack in one or the other. It would also mean they could offer full on digital services to the engineering industry from designing the web site to integrating CAE technologies. It also means the engineering companies would have a point of contact who understood what they were talking about. Engineering is a funny old game and so are the people who work in it for the long haul. We're a strange, often cantankerous bunch of buggers and find it difficult to communicate with ordinary people.

 

So the boss could have had an appointment at a Buck House garden party to receive a Queen's Award to Industry rather than an appointment at Threadneedle Street to receive a notice of bankruptcy.

 

For a limited company in general the Articles of Incorporation allow it to trade and participate in any lawful business as long as it acquires the relevant employers and public liabilities. Some areas like health, nuclear and other have to be taken out by special arrangement. So they would be entitled to expand into others spheres of operation based on the skills held by their employees.

 

This is why application forms have that seemingly pointless, Other Skills/Hobbies/Interests box to fill in. They want to know this so they can see what other skills you have that they could splice into your main skill set to expand their business and profits.

I can't see how that would work. if I took a job as a cleaner for minimum wage the last thing i'd add to my application is that i'm a developer. Mainly because if I wanted a job as a cleaner and could fulfil that role then the fact I'm a developer is irrelevant to to employer for my role. If what you're saying is spot on then a cleaner who is also fluent in a second language could be prosecuted for not translating a business meeting for minimum wage?

I can't see how that would work. if I took a job as a cleaner for minimum wage the last thing i'd add to my application is that i'm a developer. Mainly because if I wanted a job as a cleaner and could fulfil that role then the fact I'm a developer is irrelevant to to employer for my role. If what you're saying is spot on then a cleaner who is also fluent in a second language could be prosecuted for not translating a business meeting for minimum wage?

 

No they couldn't be prosecuted as translation services are not in their job description, however if the employer knew you spoke for example French they could at some stage decide to open a branch in France and ask you to go over to help get it underway as you can speak both English and French.

 

In this case you are now actually limiting yourself by hiding your skills.

 

If you have a PhD in astrophysics but are happy just to sweep up dog turds in a car park for the next fifty years then why hide the fact? However this isn't normal human behaviour the only time I've come across people doing it is because they just want a short term job or have had mental or nervous breakdowns and just couldn't handle a job that put any pressure or stress on them. The alternative is that they are a lazy, can't be arsed bugger who if they take that attitude with their life what attitude will they take to the job? Normal human behaviour is to eagerly grab the opportunity to shine and prove how indispensable you are.

 

Why would anyone bother to acquire skills and knowledge if they an ambition-less loser who wants to build up the national collection of doggy-doos and used condoms.

 

This is why you need to get them to fill in a proper application form and sign it, not just accept a CV. As an employer you could be laying out a substantial amount of money to take on an employee and any skills they have that you could exploit for the benefit of the business you need to know about. The last time I saw a figure for the cost of going through the process of acquiring an employee it was around £36,000.

 

I don't know anyone who has had a civil action taken out against them but I know of several people summarily dismissed when the employer found out they hadn't disclosed seemingly innocuous things. The employer is put in the position that if they discover you have lied or concealed information what other lies and deceits have you indulged in. I've been sacked myself for not disclosing the full level of my qualifications, short term, stop gap job category. I got caught out when a couple of blokes I'd been in charge of in another company turned up on the site and let it drop.

 

Imagine you are the manager of an industrial chemical plant and you discover some bloke working as a cleaner has a degree in chemical engineering? You sack the bugger on the spot as they are probably indulging in industrial espionage. Normal behaviour would be to make the employer aware of the degree and state that they are happy to be a cleaner in order to be on the spot to be considered for a better position if it arises.

 

As an employee you are an asset of the company therefore you are expected to disclose all and any information that could be of present or future use and benefit. You also need to gain the trust of the employer and you will not do that if they discover you're concealing information.

I should have put that I can speak very broken Swedish, and I have experience driving a range of tractors and fitting irrigation for farms then! But I won't because I don't want my job or any future ones to feature any of those things.

 

Where does the £36k come from? I assume it must be an avarage as skilled employees cost far more to hire than unskilled / low demand & high supply.

Edited September 25, 201610 yr by rbrtsmith

I should have put that I can speak very broken Swedish, and I have experience driving a range of tractors and fitting irrigation for farms then! But I won't because I don't want my job or any future ones to feature any of those things.

 

Where does the £36k come from? I assume it must be an avarage as skilled employees cost far more to hire than unskilled / low demand & high supply.

 

Why not put it down in the Other Skills/Hobbies/Interests box. It shows the employer you're not just a one trick pony. In Sainsbury's it is highly likely that you are going to be asked to drive a tractor or fit an irrigation system so why hide it. It does however tell them that you have a range of skills, experience and interests. That you are adaptable and flexible.

 

To me it seems an odd concept to conceal any talents you have.

 

Consider this, one day Sainsbury's might decide to abandon the fictitious farm names and set up a real one. So your boss pops his head out the door and shouts, 'Oi Smithy, You're a farm boy, want to head up the new farm web site project? Don't want those wurzels and manure munchers trying to put anything over on us. It comes with a promotion and a 10% pay rise'.

 

Are you going to turn it down?

 

So if you do the boss thinks to himself, 'OK a real mover and shaker that one'. Then he shouts, 'Right anyone else with swede bashing and turnip tossing experience?'.

 

Note that you cannot be compelled to carry out any task outside of your terms of employment. However if circumstances change and the boss knows you have certain skills that are now desirable a new position with higher pay created and you would have a change in your terms of employment. You cannot be compelled because the employer's liability would only cover you to carry out the described tasks. To perform any other tasks would mean that the liability would be null and void and possibly any public liability..

 

The reason I got the push for not disclosing my qualifications and experience was that the foreman flew into a rage and pounded into the manager's office when he found out because he thought I was being brought in to replace him behind his back. For obvious safety and discipline reasons I was dismissed on the spot. I was younger and more naive at the time.

 

The £36,000 is an average cost, perhaps didn't make that clear.

I find all this fascinating purely because I've been freelance since around 2001 and so my recruitment knowledge is pretty limited. I can see what you're saying just back then I was always taught to keep the cv relevant and not go into every last drop of things I've done. Just shows how much has changed. Think i'll stay freelance

I find all this fascinating purely because I've been freelance since around 2001 and so my recruitment knowledge is pretty limited. I can see what you're saying just back then I was always taught to keep the cv relevant and not go into every last drop of things I've done. Just shows how much has changed. Think i'll stay freelance

 

Yep, being freelance isn't a bad idea. An even better idea is to be an employee then you have no cares.

 

Relevance is the crux. What might appear relevant or irrelevant to someone with an employee mind isn't what might appear to be relevant to someone with an employer mind.

 

An employee just has to go to work for eight hours and then go home and switch off. They have no cares or worries or relatively few.

 

An employer on the other hand has a statutory requirement to pay the employee, pay their sick pay and holiday pay, pay their National Insurance, pay for employee insurance and other liabilities. Depending on the number they might also have to pay workplace pensions and other fees.

 

The employer pays for machines, tools and consumables including maintenance. Health and safety equipment and any PPE, nor forgetting soap and toilet rolls.

 

The employer pays for the pens, pencils, paper clips, drawing pins, envelopes and all the other stationery. and postage.

 

They also pay for the lighting and heating, the electricity to power the machines, even the electricity to boil the kettle for coffee. They also pay for the water for the coffee and to flush away the resulting number one's and number two's.

 

The employer pays for the desks, chairs and other furniture.

 

Then there is the rent and rates on premises, the cleaning and maintenance charges and insurances of those premises. Indeed if the premises need to be air conditioned the employer is paying for the air the employee is breathing.

 

Throw on top of that lot the costs of accountants and other professional fees.

 

The above isn't an exhaustive list of costs you might incur. However most employees in their limited view never recognise it. I have lost count of the number of times I've heard people say, 'Well I've earned my wages for today', they have no idea.

 

So as an employer I reserved the right to decide what was and wasn't relevant.

 

As an employer you also need to assess the performance of your business and might need to adapt the direction in which it is going. Knowing as much as possible about your employees can help with that.

 

Why not put it down in the Other Skills/Hobbies/Interests box. It shows the employer you're not just a one trick pony. In Sainsbury's it is highly likely that you are going to be asked to drive a tractor or fit an irrigation system so why hide it. It does however tell them that you have a range of skills, experience and interests. That you are adaptable and flexible.

 

To me it seems an odd concept to conceal any talents you have.

 

Consider this, one day Sainsbury's might decide to abandon the fictitious farm names and set up a real one. So your boss pops his head out the door and shouts, 'Oi Smithy, You're a farm boy, want to head up the new farm web site project? Don't want those wurzels and manure munchers trying to put anything over on us. It comes with a promotion and a 10% pay rise'.

 

Are you going to turn it down?

 

So if you do the boss thinks to himself, 'OK a real mover and shaker that one'. Then he shouts, 'Right anyone else with swede bashing and turnip tossing experience?'.

 

Note that you cannot be compelled to carry out any task outside of your terms of employment. However if circumstances change and the boss knows you have certain skills that are now desirable a new position with higher pay created and you would have a change in your terms of employment. You cannot be compelled because the employer's liability would only cover you to carry out the described tasks. To perform any other tasks would mean that the liability would be null and void and possibly any public liability..

 

The reason I got the push for not disclosing my qualifications and experience was that the foreman flew into a rage and pounded into the manager's office when he found out because he thought I was being brought in to replace him behind his back. For obvious safety and discipline reasons I was dismissed on the spot. I was younger and more naive at the time.

 

The £36,000 is an average cost, perhaps didn't make that clear.

 

In short because a CV should be terse, you put in it skills and experiences that are most relevant to the role. Sometimes it can be beneficial to put these things down; In my case my CV already had to be massively reduced so things like that were never going to make the final one

There's zero chance of any of my former skills coming even close to the pay I earn as a developer, and even if they could I am not interested in working in any of those kind of roles again.

On a CV you always prioritise the skills that are relevant and you are under no legal obligation to list every skill and bit of experience you have.

Edited October 3, 201610 yr by rbrtsmith

 

On a CV you always prioritise the skills that are relevant and you are under no legal obligation to list every skill and bit of experience you have.

 

A CV has no legal status. A formal application form however does have a legal status and failure to supply the required information can be considered to be an offence both civil and criminal. Fill in an application form for Royal Mail and you'll get the idea.

 

This is why you should never employ someone purely on the strength of a CV which could be filled with inaccuracies and even outright lies.

 

Reminds me of a case many years ago when a bloke talked his way into an Oxbridge professorship on the basis of a glowing CV, when all he had were a couple of O-levels. The college found out several years later and tried to sue him but it fell under caveat emptor (buyer beware) and held that it was up to the college to have actually verified the qualifications and posts claimed in the CV. The brand damage there arose from the fact that as he wasn't qualified technically it invalidated the degrees obtained by anyone who had studied under him. I recall the government sorted that out as it would have caused even greater brand damage to the UK to have all those degrees written off.

 

Yep, being freelance isn't a bad idea. An even better idea is to be an employee then you have no cares.

 

Relevance is the crux. What might appear relevant or irrelevant to someone with an employee mind isn't what might appear to be relevant to someone with an employer mind.

 

An employee just has to go to work for eight hours and then go home and switch off. They have no cares or worries or relatively few.

 

An employer on the other hand has a statutory requirement to pay the employee, pay their sick pay and holiday pay, pay their National Insurance, pay for employee insurance and other liabilities. Depending on the number they might also have to pay workplace pensions and other fees.

 

The employer pays for machines, tools and consumables including maintenance. Health and safety equipment and any PPE, nor forgetting soap and toilet rolls.

 

The employer pays for the pens, pencils, paper clips, drawing pins, envelopes and all the other stationery. and postage.

 

They also pay for the lighting and heating, the electricity to power the machines, even the electricity to boil the kettle for coffee. They also pay for the water for the coffee and to flush away the resulting number one's and number two's.

 

The employer pays for the desks, chairs and other furniture.

 

Then there is the rent and rates on premises, the cleaning and maintenance charges and insurances of those premises. Indeed if the premises need to be air conditioned the employer is paying for the air the employee is breathing.

 

Throw on top of that lot the costs of accountants and other professional fees.

 

The above isn't an exhaustive list of costs you might incur. However most employees in their limited view never recognise it. I have lost count of the number of times I've heard people say, 'Well I've earned my wages for today', they have no idea.

 

So as an employer I reserved the right to decide what was and wasn't relevant.

 

As an employer you also need to assess the performance of your business and might need to adapt the direction in which it is going. Knowing as much as possible about your employees can help with that.

 

I feel those bills as Freelance, the amount of times people flippantly say "You're freelance, stick it through the business" or "You charge X an hour you must be minted" is unbelievable.