I have basically lost my last job and have been out of work for a little while now, but I want to get back in ASAP...

 

I just find that there aren't many options for me, seeing as I've sent out CV's but I don't have a website coded up yet, I can't prove to them that I can code, i can code but I just can't get my code up to a high standard, I am unsure which is the best way to achieve something, i do actually know the code though.

 

So yeah I've been advised that I should do an apprenticeship but that seems to be going back years. I started in college as an electrician but later found it was a waste of time seeing as I don't have the experience, therefore they wouldn't even let me start, well I don't bother with that path any more. It makes me wonder why they'd even have college if the experience was the only thing that mattered, why didn't they just say at the door "Theory is a waste of time, you need experience." I could go into web design, electrical engineering, penetration testing or work as an electrician, it's just that in each one, i can't get past that last hurdle of experience, the companies don't give many students a chance.

 

I think it's better that I am just directly employed by a company rather than go on an apprenticeship, to me it seems to go back years and I'm not interested in going back to the beginning, I don't want baby food, I want steak. It seems to me they are underestimating me and hence telling me to go back to stage 1. Am I going to have to do this? Time = Money, I don't want this to take years.

 

I just find that where ever you go, regardless of how good you are, people will never be able to see your strengths because you are inexperienced, they don't tell me what I'm actually doing wrong or whatever, they'll just say "you don't have experience" rather than actually pointing out my weaknesses. I think it's a little bit unfair to push people to the side because they aren't as experienced. A lot of the time they'll put it down to age, and that's 1 reason why i didn't bother being an electrician, because regardless of how hard you work they'll never let you progress seeing as you're young, it happens all the time, the elders can get away with anything, but they all turn on the young and inexperienced. Especially in any debate, I don't bother most of the time because regardless of what I say they'll dismiss my points down to experience and age, anti intellectualism at it's finest.

 

What do you think I should do? Could I get the job if I show that I have a decent website? People will say I'm not ready but i don't see what I need other than a little bit of experience. I agree it's needed, but it's really hyped up, most will go on learning from experience using bad practices, but i find learning from books from pro's to be the best. I guess when I grow old my voice will be heard.

Edited July 1, 201511 yr by NullDrone

Why don't you code up some mock websites? That's what I used to get my job. I also recreated common problems, solved them with codepen demos and took my laptop along with code printouts, offered to live code. Did the trick.

 

I can't see not having any examples as an excuse (Not wanting to sound harsh ) But just code up some stuff, you don't need a real client for this. Take an existing site and show how you would improve it.

If you are still struggling then maybe you want to try an internship for a few weeks? In my opinion though if we get an applicant who can demonstrate strong coding abilities we would consider them regardless of experience. Of course much more comes into it than, that but any applications we get HAVE to demonstrate that.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited July 2, 201511 yr by rbrtsmith

Why don't you code up some mock websites? That's what I used to get my job. I also recreated common problems, solved them with codepen demos and took my laptop along with code printouts, offered to live code. Did the trick.

This is how i got my job, at the time i worked in a wood factory no proper education in the IT industry. But in the interview i was able to show several projects that i worked on in my own time.

 

You could make a mock up website but i always loos inspiration after a while working for a non-existent client, so i try to make random stuff i.e.

- Text based games

- My own CMS

- Forum software

- Money planner

- Stock management system

 

If you can show to a potential employer that you can do any of the above from scratch you would be in a much better position then having nothing to show.

This is how i got my job, at the time i worked in a wood factory no proper education in the IT industry. But in the interview i was able to show several projects that i worked on in my own time.

 

You could make a mock up website but i always loos inspiration after a while working for a non-existent client, so i try to make random stuff i.e.

- Text based games

- My own CMS

- Forum software

- Money planner

- Stock management system

 

If you can show to a potential employer that you can do any of the above from scratch you would be in a much better position then having nothing to show.

 

For a backend position

 

For a front-end swap those examples for things that are related to the UI

like coding a responsive nav menu from scratch with dropdown sub-menus that can be opend by click on mobile devices.. Examples of JavaScript, Some cool animations - maybe a collection of buttons with hover effects.

 

Most of all though show enthusiasm, a love for the industry and desire to learn. I demonstrated a 'I'll do whatever it takes' attitude and they liked that despite my relative inexperience at the time.

 

For a backend position

 

For a front-end swap those examples for things that are related to the UI

like coding a responsive nav menu from scratch with dropdown sub-menus that can be opend by click on mobile devices.. Examples of JavaScript, Some cool animations - maybe a collection of buttons with hover effects.

 

Most of all though show enthusiasm, a love for the industry and desire to learn. I demonstrated a 'I'll do whatever it takes' attitude and they liked that despite my relative inexperience at the time.

 

I like your response and found I can totally relate ! How hard was it to find your first gig? When you started working did you feel overwhelmed and lost? I've interned at startup agencies (briefly) and I'm looking to find a full-time where they have space for a very junior developer which is stable.

I anticipated the learning curve would be large so I donät think I found it overwhelming, but I did spend hours everyday after work sort of playing catch up..

I anticipated the learning curve would be large so I donät think I found it overwhelming, but I did spend hours everyday after work sort of playing catch up..

 

I assumed that what was taught in the books would be a summary of it all seeing as the authors would be experts themselves, I don't get why they would not include all of it and leaving the reader stuck when he actually goes for the job, if you have learnt most of it in books then surely all you need to do is practice right? There are unexpected errors and more to it than just coding, like different ways to achieve something, but you will know the code so i guess that's most of it. Or is there more? I read this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/HTML-CSS-Design-Build-Sites/dp/1118008189/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1435883291&sr=8-2&keywords=html+css

Edited July 3, 201511 yr by NullDrone

It's important to decide where you want to work: in small company or in large one. If first its better to learn html, css, jq and CMS (Bitrix, for example or WordPress). If you are looking for work in big company you need to choose the part: graphic design, UI, front-end or back-end. Now for you its better to learn HTML, CSS and search for company where you can work with professional team. Of cause you need to put on Github a few examples of your code. But be prepared. When you come to interview HR will tell you that he want to see the living site with your work, not only particials on Github. If you love making UI (for example in Vanilla js or jq) HR will tell you that company projects based on Angular:)). So.. you will never ready enough, because every company has different conditions. Be prepared to learn new stuff during working process. And (definitely!) don't wait untill you become old. Because since that time your life start be much more complicated:) You have all abilities to find good job right now, just act!

 

 

I assumed that what was taught in the books would be a summary of it all seeing as the authors would be experts themselves, I don't get why they would not include all of it and leaving the reader stuck when he actually goes for the job, if you have learnt most of it in books then surely all you need to do is practice right? There are unexpected errors and more to it than just coding, like different ways to achieve something, but you will know the code so i guess that's most of it. Or is there more? I read this book: http://www.amazon.co...ywords=html css

 

The issue is you might be buying books that are 3-4 years old and at the speed this industry moves at, generally a lot of them will be now out of date.

 

I really recommend you pay for CodeSchool. they are well upto date and if you follow all their courses for HTML, CSS, JavaScript then you will be at an employable level, books or no books follow this.

The whole backbone of my learning has been from these online resources, I buy books but I literally only read them when I don't have access to CodeSchool (Or in my case now Frontend masters - although that's mostly aimed at more senior devs)

 

When I started my place of work I had to learn Sass, Git, Grunt, SSH, Terminal ontop of the stuff I already new, most workplaces are using this or some kind of very similar setup, unless they are still living in the past. But really you only have to learn the basics of these to be productive. Still I had to pick them all up within a few weeks. It worked out well because with that I demonstrated my ability to learn quickly.

 

I would recommend you do the intro course on CodeSchool for GIT and Sass, not knowing terminal wont stop you getting a job imo, but you should know the basic commands for GIT.

 

Sometimes we think of web as a high barrier for entry, but really it isn't - We're building software and is a professional position. Look at other professions - Lawyer, Civil Engineer etc all require years of study. I think it's quite normal that we should have to put the groundwork in to get our feet through the door - our clients don't want websites that are pooly built by inexperience, the same way you don't want an inexperienced mechanic replacing the brakes on your car.

 

The premise is - Sign up to CodeSchool, follow their stuff, then you'll be at that level to be employed as a junior dev, maybe then buy books to back up your knowledge, but research them first, some are no good, some are fantastic.

Edited July 3, 201511 yr by rbrtsmith

No offence, but your original post does come across as though you have a bit of an attitude problem - the absolute vast majority of people do get places by having the experience - rarely in life do you get steak first, to use your analogy.

 

I've been studying web development for a few years, though only with a serious amount of effort for the last 6 months.

 

My plan is to have a portfolio of websites by the end of the year, 4 or 5, using various web technologies such as HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, jQuery and perhaps Drupal, Bootstrap and Wordpress. Thereby showing my flexibility to potential employers.

 

I will have to take a pay cut for my first web development job, from what I am on now, which isn't ideal being 35 years old, but if I become good, through experience, the rewards will come.

 

I seriously recommend that you have some kind of portfolio - my websites will just be sites that I have made for the sake of it.

 

All the best.

Edited July 4, 201511 yr by James Winfield

No offence, but your original post does come across as though you have a bit of an attitude problem - the absolute vast majority of people do get places by having the experience - rarely in life do you get steak first, to use your analogy.

 

I've been studying web development for a few years, though only with a serious amount of effort for the last 6 months.

 

My plan is to have a portfolio of websites by the end of the year, 4 or 5, using various web technologies such as HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, jQuery and perhaps Drupal, Bootstrap and Wordpress. Thereby showing my flexibility to potential employers.

 

I will have to take a pay cut for my first web development job, from what I am on now, which isn't ideal being 35 years old, but if I become good, through experience, the rewards will come.

 

I seriously recommend that you have some kind of portfolio - my websites will just be sites that I have made for the sake of it.

 

All the best.

 

I too took on a pay-cut intially. 6 months later I was earning more than previously. You have the right attitude to succeed in this field.

 

I too took on a pay-cut intially. 6 months later I was earning more than previously. You have the right attitude to succeed in this field.

 

Thanks!

No offence, but your original post does come across as though you have a bit of an attitude problem - the absolute vast majority of people do get places by having the experience - rarely in life do you get steak first, to use your analogy.

 

I've been studying web development for a few years, though only with a serious amount of effort for the last 6 months.

 

My plan is to have a portfolio of websites by the end of the year, 4 or 5, using various web technologies such as HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, jQuery and perhaps Drupal, Bootstrap and Wordpress. Thereby showing my flexibility to potential employers.

 

I will have to take a pay cut for my first web development job, from what I am on now, which isn't ideal being 35 years old, but if I become good, through experience, the rewards will come.

 

I seriously recommend that you have some kind of portfolio - my websites will just be sites that I have made for the sake of it.

 

All the best.

 

I think I have a mix between an attitude problem and a kind of insensitivity to how i come across. Of course I don't show it at interviews but i have the view that attitude is actually quite irrelevant, because if you can do the job and they see you can do it well, attitude should be unimportant. I don't actually like being an optimist, and i cringe at when someone gives a fake smile, I actually find it annoying when people are optimistic.

 

I think I have a mix between an attitude problem and a kind of insensitivity to how i come across. Of course I don't show it at interviews but i have the view that attitude is actually quite irrelevant, because if you can do the job and they see you can do it well, attitude should be unimportant. I don't actually like being an optimist, and i cringe at when someone gives a fake smile, I actually find it annoying when people are optimistic.

 

I disagree, in web you're nearly always working as part of a team so seeing if the person can fit well within that team is paramount, somebody who's generally negative could spread that negativity throughout. We are currently looking for a backend developer and one of the main criteria is that they are social, a real team player. We don't want the stereotypical programmer who has no social skills, and generally a positive person, who want's to consistently improve themselves.

This doesn't mean you fake things but it's good to try to seek out the best of a situation.

Edited July 4, 201511 yr by rbrtsmith

 

I disagree, in web you're nearly always working as part of a team so seeing if the person can fit well within that team is paramount, somebody who's generally negative could spread that negativity throughout. We are currently looking for a backend developer and one of the main criteria is that they are social, a real team player. We don't want the stereotypical programmer who has no social skills, and generally a positive person, who want's to consistently improve themselves.

This doesn't mean you fake things but it's good to try to seek out the best of a situation.

 

By the way most web developers and anything to do with computers are introverts, they find it hard to talk to people and socialize in groups. I am willing to learn social skills, they just find that I'm a little bit shy at first, but i'm usually quite relaxed in real life so it should be OK, only when I get behind a computer I start to vent a little lol.

 

By the way most web developers and anything to do with computers are introverts, they find it hard to talk to people and socialize in groups. I am willing to learn social skills, they just find that I'm a little bit shy at first, but i'm usually quite relaxed in real life so it should be OK, only when I get behind a computer I start to vent a little lol.

 

Yeah that's how the stereotype goes, I don't think being a 'little' shy is a problem, but of course when you know your team you have to be warm towards them and communicate well, I think in almost all companies, most problems arise from poor communication. It will be well worth your time to work on your social skills a little - both for work and life in general, I was an introvert until I traveled and then I was forced to meet new people every day, I think a lot of introverts are that way because they spend very little time meeting new people so the issue spirals out of control. Confidence is built on competence, if you know how to do something then you will be confident to do it. If you rarely meet people and have poor social skills it stands that your confidence in that situation will be low. Only fix is to face those fears head on and get used to meeting new people.

 

I also vent, but when in work I try to keep it as professional as possible, wouldn't look good if a client was being shown around and I was venting, afterall it is a professional workplace, we all tend to have like a work personality and an out of work personality, so you will have to tone down any venting when in the workplace

Edited July 5, 201511 yr by rbrtsmith

 

Yeah that's how the stereotype goes, I don't think being a 'little' shy is a problem, but of course when you know your team you have to be warm towards them and communicate well, I think in almost all companies, most problems arise from poor communication. It will be well worth your time to work on your social skills a little - both for work and life in general, I was an introvert until I traveled and then I was forced to meet new people every day, I think a lot of introverts are that way because they spend very little time meeting new people so the issue spirals out of control. Confidence is built on competence, if you know how to do something then you will be confident to do it. If you rarely meet people and have poor social skills it stands that your confidence in that situation will be low. Only fix is to face those fears head on and get used to meeting new people.

 

I also vent, but when in work I try to keep it as professional as possible, wouldn't look good if a client was being shown around and I was venting, afterall it is a professional workplace, we all tend to have like a work personality and an out of work personality, so you will have to tone down any venting when in the workplace

And yeah, I just have this slight problem where I can't control my tone, I'm completely insensitive to it. People a lot of the time think I'm ranting but I don't actually intend it as a rant, it's like when people think you are criticizing them but you actually describing them, I sound rude a lot of the time, but it's unintentional. Some actually thought I was autistic, but I'm just so insensitive at times, I stopped caring what people think of me a little while ago and it's a nice feeling, but sometimes you have to care what others think of you, it's getting that balance, when I'm out of work I just say whatever.

100% disagree about attitude being unimportant.

 

Skill can be taught. Attitude and having the right qualities is much more important than skill, in my opinion.

 

You could be the best coder in the world but a nightmare to work with, who wants to work with someone like that?

 

You have to show a willingness to learn, and better yourself. You could go into an interview having hardly any skill, but as long as you can prove to them that you've attempted to solve a problem, even if it's wrong, you've still had a go. You're at least showing that you've tried.

100% disagree about attitude being unimportant.

 

Skill can be taught. Attitude and having the right qualities is much more important than skill, in my opinion.

 

You could be the best coder in the world but a nightmare to work with, who wants to work with someone like that?

 

You have to show a willingness to learn, and better yourself. You could go into an interview having hardly any skill, but as long as you can prove to them that you've attempted to solve a problem, even if it's wrong, you've still had a go. You're at least showing that you've tried.

 

I don't show it at interview, maybe I look a little grumpy without knowing it. But I just find that many people are positive, but dumb.

 

At my last workplace it was hell because people had appauling attitudes, I wouldn't employ people like that. But I also find it nearly annoying when people are positive all the time. If I were to run a business I would emphasize skill over attitude, maybe that's just me. It seems like many people in the world are positive, use manners, behave well, but when it comes to intelligence and especially intellect, they really lack, it's like they're dumb and boring, whereas I prefer smart and fun. They'll call me out as "you think your smarter than everyone else, don't yah?" then they'll start to hate you for it, I would say intuitively they thought I was a nerd so they didn't like me, they also dislike young people, but like I said it's usually the elders at the workplace that destroy the peace then go on to say that the young people have bad attitudes, they are quick to label youngers as "arrogant" etc. it's prejudice.

Edited July 13, 201511 yr by NullDrone

I'm currently pursuing a 2 year program for web development here in DC. It's a second career for me as I was previously a medical student. I went to a career counselor when I was first contemplating leaving medical school (and going the web dev path) and she told me that a web career may not be an ideal career for myself personally BUT the advice she offered me was to try a class first, see if I like it, and go from there...so maybe you could do the same (I have since stuck it out).

A fun little test you might want to take is the Myers-Briggs Type Inventory (MBTI) and see if you have the MBTI "type" of other web developers (again don't be discouraged as I believe I actually don't have the "ideal" type as most web developers).

So anyway my best piece of advice would be to take a class or two and see if you like it...if you do great! but if not then at least you know.

Hope this helps

 

I'm currently pursuing a 2 year program for web development here in DC. It's a second career for me as I was previously a medical student. I went to a career counselor when I was first contemplating leaving medical school (and going the web dev path) and she told me that a web career may not be an ideal career for myself personally BUT the advice she offered me was to try a class first, see if I like it, and go from there...so maybe you could do the same (I have since stuck it out).

A fun little test you might want to take is the Myers-Briggs Type Inventory (MBTI) and see if you have the MBTI "type" of other web developers (again don't be discouraged as I believe I actually don't have the "ideal" type as most web developers).

So anyway my best piece of advice would be to take a class or two and see if you like it...if you do great! but if not then at least you know.

Hope this helps

 

 

Good post and welcome to the forums.

Reading this thread has actually helped somewhat thinking about my own career path. I'm kinda at a crossroad right now.

 

For the last 8 years I've worked on my own as an Accident Investigator, prior to that I've worked in Account Management roles for B2B companies and prior to that I worked for Insurance companies. So I'm pretty confident dealing with clients and working with others. I'm also a team captain at my local tennis club so I'm happy enough in social environments.

 

I've been doing some web design work for the last few months and I really enjoy it. I'm not coding sites from scratch though... I'm using Wordpress themes and customising for each project. I read a book on HTML & CSS and now I am doing a Udemy course too. I'm curious about CodeSchool and Treehouse now though as I've seen those recommended on here.

 

It was my plan initially to work freelance, but there is a big part of me that wonders if I would benefit more and learn more (perhaps from a business perspective) by getting a job. So that would put me in a similar position to the OP. To be honest though, I'm not really sure where to even start. I took a cursory glance at a couple of jobs sites yesterday and there didn't seem to be much going. So I'd really like to hear perspectives from others, or any advice/recommendations etc. For example, where are the best places to look? What is the best way to get into web development in a situation like mine...

 

Love to hear your thoughts on this...

I've used Udemy, but I've since started using Treehouse, and I prefer it. I'm just working through the Sass courses and Hampton Catlin one of the creators of Sass is teaching it, has to be said he is quite funny. There is a large selection of courses (tracks) you can follow and they are always adding new tracks to their library.

 

Each course is split up into sections which cover each part about a subject, and each section may consist of several videos and a few quizzes and tests, which check to make sure that you understood what was said in the previous videos. Personally I think it's worth the monthly subscription. If you're unsure there is a free trial.

 

Shameless Referral to TeamTreeHouse

Edited October 23, 201510 yr by richardmountain

Reading this thread has actually helped somewhat thinking about my own career path. I'm kinda at a crossroad right now.

 

For the last 8 years I've worked on my own as an Accident Investigator, prior to that I've worked in Account Management roles for B2B companies and prior to that I worked for Insurance companies. So I'm pretty confident dealing with clients and working with others. I'm also a team captain at my local tennis club so I'm happy enough in social environments.

 

I've been doing some web design work for the last few months and I really enjoy it. I'm not coding sites from scratch though... I'm using Wordpress themes and customising for each project. I read a book on HTML & CSS and now I am doing a Udemy course too. I'm curious about CodeSchool and Treehouse now though as I've seen those recommended on here.

 

It was my plan initially to work freelance, but there is a big part of me that wonders if I would benefit more and learn more (perhaps from a business perspective) by getting a job. So that would put me in a similar position to the OP. To be honest though, I'm not really sure where to even start. I took a cursory glance at a couple of jobs sites yesterday and there didn't seem to be much going. So I'd really like to hear perspectives from others, or any advice/recommendations etc. For example, where are the best places to look? What is the best way to get into web development in a situation like mine...

 

Love to hear your thoughts on this...

 

Sign upto Treehouse and do the front-end developer path. All of it.

 

Be prepared to spend extensive time learning the basics because in the professional world nobody should be editing pre-existing themes. Treehouse will teach you everything you'd need to know to get a junior level role at a web agency.

Many try to run before they can walk and try to chase the $$ as soon as they get a tiny bit of knowledge. The market is very crowded with these kinds of developers. But the market is really screaming out for developers who are actually skilled and can build unique products from scratch.

 

If you just stick to the path on Treehouse you can't really go far wrong, just be patient an persevere, the more nice and fun stuff will come with time.

Thanks both of you, looks like Treehouse is the way forward. I am committed to learning and believe me this is a career that I really want to make a success of. It's the first time I've actually chosen a career path as such, because it is something I want to do. Prior, I have always just fallen into things more by chance than by design.

 

I had been considering doing a degree along these lines but I'm glad I found this thread as Treehouse seems to be a much better option.

 

Thanks again

I believe it is best to learn it on your own and just try to work with it from home.

 

But you can try that, sure.

Apprenticeship is worth doing for developer at beginning.

 

Simply work from home, workout for most common issues on websites.

 

Test yourself for critical and unsolved issues...