June 24, 200818 yr Sorry to bring my personal life flowing over onto the forum but I've had a bit of a bad day. It's my friends 21st so I went to the pub to buy him a drink or two, it turns out after while that he's now seeing a girl that I liked, he didn't know but she knew he's my friend and that I like her . Anyway I had to leave because I was running short on money and his main celebrations are on Friday. Walking home two chavs/neddys/hoodies/whatevers came up to me and said "#### you looking at greebo". Usually I'd just walk by but as I was in a bad mood due to previously mentioned girl problems I swung around and said "#### you say?". Anyway I had to get hands on, I won but ended up cutting up my knuckles pretty bad . All in all a pretty bad day, I HATE chavs .
June 24, 200818 yr The worse thing about the whole story isn't not getting the girl or getting into a fight - it's that you were buying the drinks! Just to cheer you up - a cheesy joke.... What do you call a chav in a suit? The accused.
June 24, 200818 yr Yikes! I don't know what these words mean, would someone clarify this (I live in the US not UK ) "Chavs" "Neddys" "Greebo"
June 25, 200818 yr Author Yikes! I don't know what these words mean, would someone clarify this (I live in the US not UK ) "Chavs" "Neddys" "Greebo" Hooligans? Rednecks in tracksuits? Thanks Wizely that did put a smile on my face, and I only bought the one for him . Edit: Greebo is a chav insult for someone who like rock or alternative music, guess it's the same a grunger? I've heard that used on The Sopranos. My knuckles hurt .
June 25, 200818 yr Sorry to hear that but glad someone is taking it to them. These people really are the scourge of society.... This is my fav site featuring what you would call 'chavs' , up here the're called 'neds' Some of the stuff on this site is quite witty (maybe you only get it if you are scottish).. http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk Look at the 4th pic down here! http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/gallery/gallery2.html
June 25, 200818 yr Poor you cabbage. Not that I condone violence, but well done for knocking 6 shades out of them. It's a shame the police can't do the same. On a lighter note, this is also a site I have seen which epitomises chavs and their cars(It used to have a "how to spot them" section before it became a forum)- Barry boys
June 25, 200818 yr On Friday night, I was popping out to my local 24hour Asda and a 19 year old boy came running around the corner in a bit of a state... turns out he was on his way home and a group of chavs had turned on him and thrown sulphuric acid in his face. I was pouring water in his eye for about half an hour until an ambulance showed up! The story made yesterday's Sun newspaper. ... Blame the parents for giving up on them.
June 25, 200818 yr On Friday night, I was popping out to my local 24hour Asda and a 19 year old boy came running around the corner in a bit of a state... turns out he was on his way home and a group of chavs had turned on him and thrown sulphuric acid in his face. I was pouring water in his eye for about half an hour until an ambulance showed up! The story made yesterday's Sun newspaper.... Blame the parents for giving up on them. OMG! That's terrible!
June 25, 200818 yr Yeah it wasn't the nicest thing to look at. Cabbage, you are very lucky they didn't have anything on them! Well done for standing up for yourself but I just wouldn't recommend it these days.
June 25, 200818 yr Cabbage, you are very lucky they didn't have anything on them! Well done for standing up for yourself but I just wouldn't recommend it these days. I agree, sometimes it's a lot safer to just walk away and not get involved.
June 25, 200818 yr These days it seems like they are all out to out do the last stupid act that was in the papers, so you should be really careful when they start as you never know what they are carrying or what stupid thing they will do.
June 25, 200818 yr Author I know it was a really stupid thing to do but I was in a right mood last night and I think that last little prod tipped me over the edge or something, I don't know. Usually I'm the most placid guy you could know, hell when I got in a fight once at school I didn't fight back because I didn't want to get in trouble . If they were carrying a knife or anything though I'd have ran like the wind.
June 25, 200818 yr If they were carrying a knife or anything though I'd have ran like the wind. Might have been too late when you realised though. (I'm sorry if I sound like I am nagging, it's just these things concern me)
June 25, 200818 yr Author Might have been too late when you realised though. (I'm sorry if I sound like I am nagging, it's just these things concern me) To be honest you're probably right, and who am I kidding I can't run more than 200m without wheezing and collapsing in a pile. Hopefully fight or flight would come into play or something . My right hand is all painful and bruised.. not good .
June 25, 200818 yr ^ lol I typed 'What if they pulled something when you were not looking?' but then decided it may sound like I'm nagging so I didn't post it.
June 25, 200818 yr I was once parked in newburn (Dizi may know it) just eating my chips with my girlfriend in the car, I glanced to my right and I saw this chav trying to open my door so I grabbed it swung it off him and shut it put central locking on, he then tried to smash the window while I was starting the car I put it in reserve flew back and then ran him over he left a nasty mark on my car but nothing t-cut didn't sort. Me and a few mates went down to have a look for him the next day and he was nowherer to be seen the lucky bugger otherwise I doubt he would be walking upto any cars for a while lol.
June 25, 200818 yr these stories seem to be happening more and more often... quite worrying PS Rednecks in tracksuits? Ha Ha, the thought of that is very amusing
June 25, 200818 yr these stories seem to be happening more and more often... quite worrying Always has happened, when I was a teenager we had the soul boys / casuals and I spent many a Saturday night being chased round town by them. Back then the weapon of choice was a stanley knife (carpet cutting knife), the expression 'meet stan' or similar being used before the cut. Friend of mine still has a giant 'mars bar' (scar) across his cheek from an altercation with a junior psycho (same 'geezer' had done the same to at least 20 others in the borough and only on probation). Horrible stuff, but the point being it's always gone on and likely always will. I think the notion that it's worsae now than ever is as much a myth as reality, created by the proliferation of news outlets / communication methods and enhanced by a general hysteria surrounding this sort of thing. Only difference now is the 'chavs' or 'neds' have no style what so ever, if there was one redeeming factor of casuals, soul boys, suede heads, skinheads, mods, rockers, teddy boys etc it was their fashion sense. As an aside I've just come back from a seemingly paradise like Greek island, where a conversation with a local told me that the islands football teams supporters spent their whole team fighting with opposing supporters from other islands. Sadly some men haven't quite evolved!
June 25, 200818 yr Author Always has happened, when I was a teenager we had the soul boys / casuals and I spent many a Saturday night being chased round town by them. Back then the weapon of choice was a stanley knife (carpet cutting knife), the expression 'meet stan' or similar being used before the cut. Friend of mine still has a giant 'mars bar' (scar) across his cheek from an altercation with a junior psycho (same 'geezer' had done the same to at least 20 others in the borough and only on probation). Horrible stuff, but the point being it's always gone on and likely always will. I think the notion that it's worsae now than ever is as much a myth as reality, created by the proliferation of news outlets / communication methods and enhanced by a general hysteria surrounding this sort of thing. Only difference now is the 'chavs' or 'neds' have no style what so ever, if there was one redeeming factor of casuals, soul boys, suede heads, skinheads, mods, rockers, teddy boys etc it was their fashion sense. As an aside I've just come back from a seemingly paradise like Greek island, where a conversation with a local told me that the islands football teams supporters spent their whole team fighting with opposing supporters from other islands. Sadly some men haven't quite evolved! Also go to love the skinheads taste in music (well, original skinheads anyway).
June 25, 200818 yr Also go to love the skinheads taste in music (well, original skinheads anyway). Yep forgot to mention the music - huge fan of rude boy / ska stuff myself, then the mod sounds are also excellent - the who, the faces etc, and actuall quite partial to decent rock n' roll and even some heavy rock. Even like some soul music.
June 25, 200818 yr I like it where I am - the most danger I'm in of an evening walking down the street is if a car comes (it's such a rarity you forget to look!). Whenever I got into 'scrapes' when I was younger I usually relied on my rapier-like wit and words to confuse, denegrate and diffuse. Of course if that failed at 6'3" and decent build I tended to just knock them on their bums! At least by using words as a defence I usually avoided fisty-cuffs and appeared to everyone around to have won. Of course there was the odd occassion when I would deploy same said verbal weapons on the offensive. But I'm glad to say I never got into a fight I didn't start! Except once... I was at Mission Beach in Oz and there was a big beach party - all going well. Then this young aussie lad got too drunk, stripped-off to go skinny-dipping (still no problem here) but started hassling my girlfriend. I left her to it as she's more than capable of sticking-up for herself and she duely tore him a new one verbally. Well his behaviour became more aggressive to her - well past drunken luridness and into the realms of sexual harassment - getting far too close and being very, very crude and trying to get her to strip off too... In fairness to me - I didn't jump in until he picked an empty wine bottle up to threaten her with (because she made him look a fool). I deplore violence and find it the last refuge of the dim-witted but, I don't need to paint too graphic a picture but it took several people to drag me off and all I'll do is coin a phrase to describe how he ended-up... "as face jam". I think, for me, the big difference these days is that words don't count as the cretins can't understand you. Also weapons and stupidity means there's no respect or thought that maybe violence isn't only morally wrong but also stupid if you're going to lose.
June 25, 200818 yr Cabbage! first off, don't feel bad about what you did, sometimes you need to stand up to people, the other thing is - speaking from experience is that you should make sure that your hand/s are ok, unless you do a lot of training to harden the bones in them you can crack, fracture or break bones in your hand. You sometimes cant tell as there small and your hand is swollen but it would be worth getting it checked as a friend of mine now has a permanent hard lump on his index knuckle. Chav's have turned into the bullies of the street and it been getting worse (knifes, guns etc.) I think that the media have made it 100 times worse by hyping it up - and so making it a self fulfilling prophecy as kids feel they 'need' to defend themselves and then get into big trouble. Wow! im very passionate today! lecture over!
June 25, 200818 yr I think, for me, the big difference these days is that words don't count as the cretins can't understand you. Also weapons and stupidity means there's no respect or thought that maybe violence isn't only morally wrong but also stupid if you're going to lose. Totally agree.
June 25, 200818 yr I'd be very interested to see the actual stats - is there an actual increase in number of these offences? Knifes have always been around in different forms - the teddy boys switchblade, the casuals stanley knife, the hells angels / rockers hatchet ! etc. Guns here in the UK are fairly recent and very much an inner city thing, mostly not used on 'innocents' (note the quotation marks round innocents as of course i'm not justifyiong their use or suggesting that anyone deserves to face one). I got mugged and held at gunpoint about 8 years back while one of the gang took my credit card and visited the cash machine, a truely terrifying experience. What I find puzzling/interesting, is the stupidity of the chavs / neds...in the past for instance the skinheads had style, referencing some unique cultural fashions and sounds, it's clear there was a search for identity. Chavs just seemt to sum up all that is wrong with society today - cheap/throw away clothes, bad music, poor language skills, they are like a youth cult that's been through the mill of the worst of capatalisms excesses. The chain store youth cult.
June 25, 200818 yr Author I think the main problem is this, **** breeds ****. Look at half the chav girls you see and they're pushing prams or pregnant, these kids are never going to be raised to be an outstanding member of the public while their parents act as they do.
June 25, 200818 yr I think the main problem is this, **** breeds ****. Look at half the chav girls you see and they're pushing prams or pregnant, these kids are never going to be raised to be an outstanding member of the public while their parents act as they do. Now that is a bit harsh, my mam had me when she was 19 although she was married to my dad, anyway I turned out fine and I know of a few people who's parents where young and they have turned out good to.
June 25, 200818 yr What I find puzzling/interesting, is the stupidity of the chavs / neds...in the past for instance the skinheads had style, referencing some unique cultural fashions and sounds, it's clear there was a search for identity. Chavs just seemt to sum up all that is wrong with society today - cheap/throw away clothes, bad music, poor language skills, they are like a youth cult that's been through the mill of the worst of capatalisms excesses. The chain store youth cult. I can tell you exactly why... they've got nothing to rebel against. Each generation that's gone before had elements that rebelled against something - that was when being underprivaleged actually meant you went without something. Now all these muppets can do is rebel against having every opportunity - how do you do that? P**s your life up against the wall and waste every opportunity. Great rebellion that.
June 25, 200818 yr Now that is a bit harsh, my mam had me when she was 19 although she was married to my dad, anyway I turned out fine and I know of a few people who's parents where young and they have turned out good to. not to be rude. but were your parents chav's ?
June 25, 200818 yr Author Now that is a bit harsh, my mam had me when she was 19 although she was married to my dad, anyway I turned out fine and I know of a few people who's parents where young and they have turned out good to. I'm not saying everyone whose mother conceived at a young age is scum by any means!! I'm just saying that chav kids are born into a cycle.
June 25, 200818 yr I think the main problem is this, **** breeds ****. Look at half the chav girls you see and they're pushing prams or pregnant, these kids are never going to be raised to be an outstanding member of the public while their parents act as they do. Indeed, but there's always been bad parents, always been lasses getting up the duff at a young age, always been delinquent teenagers (many of whom do mellow and change as they grow older - look at stats for mugging and you'll see mostly carried out by under 21's, some progress to more serious crime and many find a job and behave themselves). I was trying to point out that the youth groups the chavs have replaced all to some extent had similar behavioural characteristics at the chavs. But something HAS changed, this current group seem to have nothing to offer beyond the bottom of an alcho-pops bottle, the grotesqueness of a burberry cap, the frankly painful to the ears tinnieness of a bad r n' b track... Look around at modern haircuts and then look at some photos of punk/new wave bands from 1976-1980, it's clear that there's a positive legacy there. Mod fashion has a lasting influence. Where would two step and drum and bass be without the rude boys and skinheads. DIY ethic that prevails in web design and modern day bedroom music mixes - hang on wasn't that the ethic of Punk rock fanzines and learn three chords and start your own band. Why? What spawned the chavs?
June 25, 200818 yr I can tell you exactly why... they've got nothing to rebel against. Each generation that's gone before had elements that rebelled against something - that was when being underprivaleged actually meant you went without something. Now all these muppets can do is rebel against having every opportunity - how do you do that? P**s your life up against the wall and waste every opportunity. Great rebellion that. Not convinced, there still are pockets of very under privileged people going without. Opportunity well we've had some good times, but visit Whitehaven, Blackpool, Glasgow, Bradford, parts of Manchester, Plymouth even Lomdon's Hackney and it's not there for all by an stretch. I think it's more about rebellion not being able to exist, by the time anything 'happens' the ad-man has leapt on it and reused it to sell product. Coupled with a general improvement in standards of living there's been a huge increase in conformity. Anecdote that struck me while chatting over a few beers on holiday - working in a shop years back as say a 19 year old would involve a degree of 'individuality' if you like - in my instance I could smoke, drink a coffee, have a mate sit in whilst I served customers. As long as I did the job well boss was happy. Now swap that for working in a shop today, likely there will be a uniform or at best a 'team leader' t-shirt to wear, no smoking or drinking coffee, trained to hard sell to the customer, corporate identity, resenting having to call people sir and madam... Rebellion has lost direction, it's been soaked up by advertising and sold back.
June 25, 200818 yr not to be rude. but were your parents chav's ? Nope one was brought on a farm the other was brought in meadow well one fo the worst places in the north east and now he owns a restaurant a few houses and doesn't have to work, I know what people say it is down to the way your brought and they were both brought up great I think and I have had a great upbringing. I mean I have been in a bit of trouble but never would I dare do anything like start on a random in a street or even think about carrying a knife.
June 25, 200818 yr Not convinced, there still are pockets of very under privileged people going without. Opportunity well we've had some good times, but visit Whitehaven, Blackpool, Glasgow, Bradford, parts of Manchester, Plymouth even Lomdon's Hackney and it's not there for all by an stretch. I do agree that there are still areas where it's hard for kids to break out, and where poverty is commonplace, but I think what has changed Is that there is no clear focal point or figurehead to blame. In the 80's there was Thatcher, the 70's the government in general (3 day week etc). The effects of mismanagement and economic turmoil were there to see in a very direct way and people had something tangible to rebel against. Nowadays all we have is the price of bread or the price of petrol, forgetting that as a nation we are incredibly rich compared to most other people in the world. People are far too comfortable and that includes 'Chavs' (Neds). In the 70's and 80's they could see the jobs of their parents / neighbors being taken away from them by force. Nowadays the same level of unemployment and civil unrest isn't here. In short they have no-one to blame or fight against, so they just fight amongst themselves. Rebels without a cause, but without James Dean or anything cool whatsoever.... Burn them
June 25, 200818 yr I live in a small town, quite wealthy, everybody knows eachother, low crime rate etc. None of the 'chavs' or ****s in this town had a tough bringing up. Their parents have jobs, they are generally well off. They just like to act as if they are from some sort of projects. They have had the same opportunities as everyone else so the only real reason for their behaviour (i.e. the incident I mentioned before) IS the fact their parents gave up on them.
June 25, 200818 yr Free education, free healthcare, equal rights, free contraception, benefits, housing.... Plenty of opportunities if you want to take them. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants seem to take them. If there are no jobs or opportunities how can so many people clamour to come to Britain and so many be willing to work hard? Why is it when I go home everywhere I go I hear East European accents? No opportunity? Strange. I was raised in a council house from working-class stock. We had no money. But we had what working class people have - pride. Work hard and you get results. I'm not saying there aren't people out there trapped by circumstance - but there are an overwhelming majority of 'underprivaleged' who could take the opportunities given to them. Take an 'underprivaleged' kid from a developed nation and swap him/her with one from a 3rd world nation - would that 3rd world child p**s the opportunities up the wall? Are there chavs in societies that struggle to feed their children and where if you sat on you bum you'd die? Dying because there is zero opportunity is 'underprivaleged' - I'd rather send my tax to feed starving children than build a skateboard ramp for the bored kids who commit crimes and then expect a life on social. 'Underprivaleged' implies that taking the opportunities you have is a 'privalege'. That's what I think has gone wrong. It's all "I'm entitled to this or that" without working for it. As for poverty in the UK? Take a look at real poverty in other parts of the world. Gosh - I'm getting more right wing in my old age! I still think everyone should get those opportunities and don't mind paying tax to ensure they are there - I don't like paying tax to someone who bites the hand that feeds.
June 25, 200818 yr Some excellent points Wize. Some of which I can't argue with even though I disagree as the rationale to explain them is beyond my comprehension!!. Generally I think we need to think beyond politics or simplistic notions of rebelllion to even begin to understand this issue. I would however like to pick up on a couple of things; First, the idea that anyone can live on benefits, let alone comfortably is pretty much a myth. First of income support rates are Single people: Aged 16-17: £35.65 or in specific circumstances: £46.85 Aged 18-24: £46.85 Aged 25 or over: £59.15 Try living on £35.65 or £46.85 a week (£59.15 is a little better) - that's food, clothes, bills, travel to those job interviews before any 'luxuries'. I'd suggest without a black market job it's not possible. It can takes weeks if not months to claim, housing benefit last time I looked wasn't paid for the first six weeks (leaving the possibility of substantial debbt with no means to repay). Second point, I think it's a mistake to assume youth rebellion or any rebellion for that matter is purely 'poliitical' and driven by economic factors. Sure it can be a factor, but in my experience it's more to do with anthropolgical, psychological, cultural and environmental factors. Some examples; Anthropological - the search for self, identity and meaning. Psychological - mental health problems or issues, relationships with parents, teachers, and others. In extreme the example of the 16 year old I mentioned earlier who was responsible for slashing 20+ people with a stanley knife - it doesn't need Freud to tell us this guy has some serious psychotic issues. A softer example is a someone with overbearing, strict parents and all the different issues that may help to create. Individual personality is important too. Cultural - in extreme a young black man feeling alienated by our culture and being rejected (it can still happen) and going off the rails. Softer example growing up in a small town and feeling restrained by what's around. Environmental - Living on the top floor of a council block in Stonebridge Park, surrounded by gray and people struggling to get by. Further still the term 'rebellion' is imho somewhat misleading, it seeks to put the individual who acts, addresses, speaks outside of the staus quo into a box. It's more than simple rebellion, it's about the person seeking themselves and meaning, growing up, discovering, questioning, looking for something better etc - am sure you get my drift. Personally I think the extreme example of neds and chavs is linked to the decline in religion, not that I'm religious in any orthodox or organised sense! But in the past it at least acted as a reference point for right and wrong. Nothing has replaced it, society has become more selfish, with success often measured in purely materialistic terms. Perhaps we ought to teach non-denominational humanities/morals in schools?
June 25, 200818 yr Some very interesting points made so far, and I would like to throw a few suggestions into the mix. First off can I say how sorry I am to hear of your trouble, cabbage? Violence is my least favourite form of human expression, particularly when it takes on a physical aspect. I think we have unwittingly entered a culture of apathy in this country. Yes, we are very rich materially, but I would also suggest that our material wealth is inversely proportional to our emotional wealth (as a nation). The collapse of communities, the culture of compensation, the assualt on our residential spaces by corporations & their 'messages'. And the fact that there is no longer any meaningful form of social 'unrest' in the political sense is entirely deliberate from a political standpoint. The powers that be would much rather we were fighting among ourselves than we were fighting against them. The whole media machine seems geared up to sow the seeds of mistrust within our towns and cities, along any lines possible, of course, the favourites are race, immigration and religion. If we are so divided among ourselves, how possibly can we organise and take the govt to task? If you research the early days of the PR industry, these were its specific aims. The 'manufacture of consent' is my favourite phrase from this time. If you teach people that the important things in life are the inane and insubstantial worlds of fashion, material wealth and gadgetry, you basically open up a channel in which you can operate in any way you please. Even better, create a culture of fear so that you can justify the awful things you plan to do to the population, and that of other nations. Propaganda only became a dirty word once the Germans took hold of it and bent it to their means during WWII - we invented it! Now, we call it spin, but it's the same dirty old lies and deception that keeps us passive to the authorities, and aggressive towards one another. There's not really enough room in a thread like this to go into much detail about these matters, but for those of you who are interested, check out propaganda and control by Noam Chomsky.
June 25, 200818 yr Hooligans? Rednecks in tracksuits? Thanks Wizely that did put a smile on my face, and I only bought the one for him . Edit: Greebo is a chav insult for someone who like rock or alternative music, guess it's the same a grunger? I've heard that used on The Sopranos. My knuckles hurt . Hmmm... Well, that doesn't really answer my question. Rofl
June 25, 200818 yr According to the Collins English Dictionary, a chav is: a young working class person who dresses in casual sports clothing I think 'under-educated' should be added to that definition. As for greebo, and neddy - I'm in my thirties for god's sake; how am I supposed to know?
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