Sometimes I find it really hard to get motivated to build a project for the web. Sometimes I can play about with a design for hours but never really get anywhere. Is it best to work with content first or is doing the design and fitting in content afterwoulds the best way to go?

 

How does everyone else work? Do you have any tips for me as any suggestions advice would be great.

 

DK

I always start in photoshop, to prototype a design, I then code it in CSS and XHTML in dreamweaver.

 

Then If I am devewloping a site I, run through with the clients what they want, e.g. a form that adds stuff into a databse, and fill it with test contnet, that I make up as I go. At the same time i integrate the apps with the design.

 

If its just straight foward site, then I just add the content after. I have top though, use Lorem Ipsum at first so you can style the pages, and show the client what the page looks like with content added, but without distracting them from the actual page by the content.

 

You can generate lorem ipsum here

http://www.lipsum.com/feed/html

You gotta build from the ground up... So with that in mind definately content first.

Yes, keyword rich content first.....

You can redesign and reedit your page without affecting SE ranking if you are serious about SEO but if you don't have good content then there is possibility of lacking behind in Search ranking...

IMO " Content is the King "

Design comes first, may it be mocking up in photoshop or designing the database, design always comes first

In my book - the design comes first.

 

Once the client has seen that, they have a better idea of the site layout and structure and can then go off and create their content to fit the site. When the content is adding, further tweaks and additions are made to the design to accomodate it.

 

but that's just my opinion from a designers point of view as I don't ever write content.

I don't even touch the design until I have a definite structure for content.

 

Leaving aside the actual words, I like to have a detailed site map,

a wire-frame for any page that requires its own specific layout (i.e. the

homepage, a generic content page, gallery), and a rough story board so

I know exactly what needs to go where.

 

I'm a firm advocate of planning. I feel it's easier to fix problems early

on in the planning stage than later on after you've started on the design.

I have learned my lesson on this one and would do content first. I find that when the design comes first there's a lot of scrambling, "Can you add a callout box for my sales announcement here?" etc. Not a hassle but it's nice to have all the content (not necessarily the words, but what content you actually want) first. Then you can design around that.

 

Or maybe I'm just saying "concept first", I dunno.

I have learned my lesson on this one and would do content first. I find that when the design comes first there's a lot of scrambling, "Can you add a callout box for my sales announcement here?" etc. Not a hassle but it's nice to have all the content (not necessarily the words, but what content you actually want) first. Then you can design around that.

 

Or maybe I'm just saying "concept first", I dunno.

 

Exactly. Designing a page before planning its content is like trying to build a towerblock without the blueprints. You wouldn't start the building until all flaws and kinks had first been resolved in the blueprint; creating a website should be no different.

 

This is just my opinion, but a person whose primary talent is creating visually stunning graphics needs to consider the implications of jumping straight into the aesthetics without thinking through exactly what the website needs to achieve in terms of delivering relevant content and functionality.

Well i always decide what type of site im making first or you aint gonna have a gd site are u reali. lol. Then have a layout then design then content after coding.

I dont start work unless i go through the content (if the client is providing it) at least once as it helps me to better visualize the layout and the structure of the site.

on my personal sites, i normally go for the design first then content

content all the way, how can you design something when you didn't think about what content and where to place, how this and that...

 

Wildo

well the content no matter how good will not appeal dat much unless you have a nice design.

 

ofcourse i didnt mean i design a random layout for the content but take micade.com for example, now dat i am redesigning it, i am going for a more arcade feel yet have no content.

 

get it?

 

ps. if your wondering how micade.com is my website, im Razor from TT

Hmm I got that part pretty fast Razor

 

Wildo

I learnt from a web design company, that you should start by taking a bit of time, checking out some websites that relate to the topic of your upcoming website, see how they interact with their visitors, and how they keep their layout efficient, then start to create your own with a few ideas in your head.

 

Pen and paper is always the best solution for planning.

offtopic:

 

Wieee fault cool you joint as well

 

Wildo

Of course willie, i wouldnt leave a chance to get acquainted with a new community.

I always think of the content first even if it isnt word by word. Then before I get started on the design I normaly draw a quick sketch of how I want the page to look like on a bit of paper.

content and development before design. I always have to know what pages are needed how they are going to fit together and what's going to be on each page before I design. Maybe its just the way I was told to do stuff but then I have to look at other sites and do some form of development work looking at other sites of a similar nature to see if there is a common look that is expected as if it isn't broken you shouldn't try and fix it

 

Then comes the design when I know what is needed of a design, as a design should complement the content the best it can, as after all the design is only there to enhance what the site is about and not the other way around

Doesn't it depend on whether you are doing the site for yourself or a client? I have a number of websites planned, and because they will be on-going projects with growing content I've focused on getting the design right first. With a client I can imagine getting the content base first, analysing the content and then working the design on that.

Content! Content! Content!

That's the most important part of the project. And your design decisions should fit and enhance the content.

Content! Content! Content!

That's the most important part of the project. And your design decisions should fit and enhance the content.

 

 

 

 

you said it much better then me

 

CONTENT.

 

Think of it like a book - are you going to be impressed by a book that has an awesome cover only to find out that the novel inside it is rubbish?

To the people that said design.. how can you justify that?

 

Would you design for a site with 100 words on one page the same way you would design for a 3000 page site with 600 words per page? Of course not! So planning out your content comes first, seeing as the primary function of a website is to display content.

 

Could a site with excellent content survive without any design? yes

 

Could a site with excellent design survive without any content? no

 

I rest my case

Or you could ask like this; Would you design a house without knowing it's purpose?

The design has to be tailored to the content as well. If your site has a million pages, you're obviously going to want more space for the navigation. If your site is full of children's toys, you're going to want a bright and colourful layout...

 

Content dictates design. Design doesn't dictate content.

 

To use Thomas' interesting analogy - think of your site as a house. Sure, it might look great on the outside, but how would you feel if you got indoors and everything was cramped and poorly laid out? You'd move!

...or sue the architecht...

I get a sitemap and from that I judge how many links to design for in the primary nav, how many sub levels the site must have and whether this needs to be flexible and from that I can pretty much go ahead and design the site with the help of a logo, brand guidelines, printed brochureware for reference etc.

 

At the first design stage meeting the visuals for the homepage layout and subpage layout are discussed and then and only then is content discussed in relation to the design and then the design is adjusted in order to accomodate this and that.

 

I never get a client on the phone saying "I need a website and it's got to be able to have 3000 words on this page and 500 words on another"

 

I never start a project without doing some research into the company, the business sector they are in and also looking at competitors websites...from that research I can judge the kind of site that is required and through that process generally design a site that will always fit the content that will eventually be added to it.

 

So to make a stand for all the designers here I think DESIGN comes before CONTENT...

So what you pretty much just said is that you plan content first, meaning content comes before design...

No I don't plan the content before I design at all.

 

On all the site's I've worked on - even re-designs - the content comes after the design has been approved and most often after the site has been actually built. I don't consider a sitemap as content - that is the site structure and has nothing to do with content! the navigation isn't content - that's part of the structure as well. Content is the actually copy/images etc that gets slotted into every page at the end of the project and this does not influence the design of the site.

ok, I run a photography company and I want a site. content isnt relevant as you will add that at the end, what type of design will you go for?

that's a stupid question - i don't just pluck a design out of nowhere. I need to see your branding/logo, I need to have a chat with you about what kind of site you want, what you want it to do for you etc etc.

 

So I'm not going to answer that question as that's not the way I work.

its not a stupid question in the slightest. say I've provided you with a logo. what then?

 

I'm not going to tell you what I want the site to do for me, cause that would be defined by its content.... which isnt relevant, right?

I think with Eskymo the design comes second to structural elements (how many links, what the site is about, branding, logos, colours) in a way it is content first without having the actual text. So even though its not every word on every page she still has an idea of the content of the site through the site map and her chats about what they want. So she has a structural content to work with on her designs

 

I think some are confusing structural content with actually having every page fully written in front of them, but you can get an idea of the content from a talk about the structure of the site. Someone can say we want an about page that will be sub pages leading to about each section of the team...question: how many sections would that be?....5.. Just there you have a grasp of the type of content that is going to be placed and can design the about page with this in mind. Its not just about having it all written right in front of you, its about getting the right information to know enough about the content to design around that, even without it being there.

I class content as text and images. the stuff the client adds to the site once it's built. I don't need this stuff to design and build a site...I have designed and built every site I've ever done without having the content...

 

I don't consider the structure of the site as content...hence the confusion here. Hope that clarifies things.

well of course what the clients add at the end doenst come before the design... I assumed that was a given. How could the actual text of a page affect the design in any way? it couldnt.

 

I think everyone in this thread that has said content before design is talking about overall content. IE what is the site? shop? presentation? community? image based? text based? targets? conversion goals? what are the products and services?

 

In my mind, THAT is the content, and THAT comes before the design.....

well we obviously use different terminology. I thought it was quite clear from I've written what I mean by content.

 

Not sure I agree with you with regards to what others mean by content though as some of them refer to the same as me:

 

BenG - then I just add the content after

andyf - keyword rich content first

Cromo - then content after coding

K£v!n - content first even if it isnt word by word

 

sounds like all these folk are talking about text and images - not structure

once again, I give up.

time for bed...night night!