Sorry that my first post is such a boring one

 

But I've been asked to make a site very similar to this --> http://www.ms-estates.co.uk/to-let/

 

It's for a company with 30-50 odd houses for rent. They want a nice design, search function etc.

I'm doing design and all the coding that goes with that and my OH is going to do the database + PHP.

I'll probably end up doing a logo aswell.

 

We've not had the proper spec meeting yet, but at that meeting I don't want to be over or under selling myself so any advice would be appreciated. I was thinking a flat rate of £15 p/h with an estimated 30-40hours work...

 

Edit: Oh and I'm offering a full testing service and SEO which I do as standard but not sure it's worth mentioning. Normally I get my work through a company and I think they charge around £25 p/h for me but it means I don't have to negotiate my own deals.

Edited August 3, 201115 yr by Curiosity101

So are you saying £15ph including php work etc?

 

If so I'd say that's a little light and you would probably want to give them a fixed price rather than by the hour as it is impossible to estimate how much time it will take.

 

I own an estate agent and had a very basic site built for £1,000. I would like to have had a go at doing it myself but I knew less then than I do now!

 

 

Also if you are adding SEO as well then that should help justify the price.

Edited August 3, 201115 yr by jheg

Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that a flat fee probably was the best way to go but had been sorta basing it on those hourly rates so... £450 - £600

 

But I guess based on what you paid and the result, maybe it should be slightly more (than £600) to take into account the search function and SEO

 

Plus the amount that the customer will save in just the first year from not having to pay commission...

Edited August 3, 201115 yr by Curiosity101

Oh and just a thought, did it come with a CMS? Based on what you just said I'm figuring you're happy editing the html now... but before?

Wow, just wow. No wonder client expect such low prices.

 

I'd also avoid terms like 'do seo'. What seo are going to be doing? Some basic onsite stuff, offsite stuff, article writing, backlinks etc?

 

Like I said, normally I get my jobs through a company. I guess I'm probably charged out at much higher prices than I previously thought.

 

As for SEO, it will just be onsite and a bit of back linking. Why shouldn't I mention it? Or is it just the way I said it?

£600 is very, very low. Unless you're a beginner.

£600 is very, very low. Unless you're a beginner.

 

Only a beginner in the sense of working for myself on a freelance basis. Thanks for the feedback.

Also a thought that often comes into my mind is if people price too low, they are not only undervaluing themselves and their own work, but the trade in general and other freelancers' work. For everyone that prices too low, the clients expect the price from other people as well.

 

Do yourself and the trade in general a favour and value yourself more with this quote. Or if it's too late for this one, remember that for the future.

@rallport - Thanks so much for the post, you make some very good points. I will make sure to be completely clear what I mean by SEO. I've also been speaking to the OH and he's given me access to some of the procedures/framework they use for making specs for clients. They do software development including some top end web work so it's very applicable to what I'm doing. Things like clearly stating how many revisions are allowable in the price and things like that.

 

@Gibson - I'm definitely getting the idea that I'm underselling myself. I guess if I think of it in terms of 'Would this make a livable wage' that actually £600 for this project is quite low. It also made me question just how much the company I work for really makes on me for each project I complete for them! lol. I thought they always hired me out at an hourly rate but I'm seeing that actually they probably only charge hourly for anything additional to the main spec. I do like the job security vs freelance though so I wont be storming into my bosses office any time soon demanding a raise.

I would say, 720-950, build on a CMS. Agree the terms, then if any changes or additions are made at a later date then this would have to be done on your hourly rate.

 

(thats because im new and after experience, others might charge more)

 

The project itself whether it go wrong or good on an hourly rate can not be good on a big project, on project of this size, what I would do, offer everything that they are after. A Flat rate of what I think is a fair price for the website.

 

I would ask for the content to be written by them etc or recommend a copywriter I know.

 

By under-rating yourself I think it will make them undervalue you, as if they go to a different designer with that price, my immediate reaction would be "oh why is it that low?". Then I would think a full service, so to speak, is something they wouldn't be getting.

 

I would recommend £18-£21 Ph for this job, depending on how quickly you could get things done. I'm only starting out slightly, but I know what I can do in what time, (and then this gives me time to experiment and sometimes learn new things on new projects).

 

BUT, never undervalue yourself as it's going to make clients, at a later date more of a hassle!

 

Remember that this is a skilled profession. Your local plasterer isn't cheap, so why should you be?

Remember that this is a skilled profession. Your local plasterer isn't cheap, so why should you be?

 

Lol. A very good point. I often don't think of it as a skilled profession purely cause it was born out of a hobby when I was 11.

Another thing to remember is that they're paying you for all the hours you've spent gaining experience, learning, and practising over the years, as well as paying you for the job. Obviously not literally but what I mean is they're paying you for your experience, as well as the immediate job in hand.

 

I think the other thing is the fear that the client won't accept, so making a low quote seems like a kind of short cut "bait" to make the client accept the job or make it seem tempting.

 

You say "£450 - £600" but if you do a good job, I'd say the client's getting a fair deal for £800 - £1000, which is nearly double what you're quoting. You know you're going to do them a good £800-£1000 worth of work, possibly chuck in a little extra (I always do this if it's a nice job) so announce £800 - £1000 with confidence.

 

We should only get nervous if we are ripping people off, and I very much doubt that any one on here rips people off. Quite the opposite, I see people on here undervaluing themselves very often.

Edited August 5, 201115 yr by Gibson

I think this happens a lot because our industry is still very new. Let's say you have a builder who has done his trade for 35 years, he may find it difficult to understand and comprehend the true value of the work that we do.

 

I did a quote for a builder 2 weeks ago for a basic static site, it was two pages I believe and my quote was £380. Apparently he was deeply shocked and was expecting something more along the lines of £50! People are just still taking time to understand and realise our worth.

Charge much more than that!

I think this happens a lot because our industry is still very new. Let's say you have a builder who has done his trade for 35 years, he may find it difficult to understand and comprehend the true value of the work that we do.

 

I did a quote for a builder 2 weeks ago for a basic static site, it was two pages I believe and my quote was £380. Apparently he was deeply shocked and was expecting something more along the lines of £50! People are just still taking time to understand and realise our worth.

 

...which is why I always break down the hours on a quote. Once you explain how many hours of what activity goes into a project people tend to be more receptive.

I did a quote for a builder 2 weeks ago for a basic static site, it was two pages I believe and my quote was £380. Apparently he was deeply shocked and was expecting something more along the lines of £50! People are just still taking time to understand and realise our worth.

 

You should have requested a quote for an extension to your house in return. Then when he gave it to you, suck air through your teeth and announce that "all it is is putting a few bricks together and sling a skylight and window in" - tell him you "would do it yourself but haven't got time" and then say that you "have a brother in law whos cat's cousin's owner's bosses sister's boyfriend who can do it for half" what he quoted you using one of those tools advertised on the QVC channel.

You should have requested a quote for an extension to your house in return. Then when he gave it to you, suck air through your teeth and announce that "all it is is putting a few bricks together and sling a skylight and window in" - tell him you "would do it yourself but haven't got time" and then say that you "have a brother in law whos cat's cousin's owner's bosses sister's boyfriend who can do it for half" what he quoted you using one of those tools advertised on the QVC channel.

 

Lol! Love it. Like I said I've never quoted a project this big before. And clearly have undercharged the past smaller projects I've done (plus they were for family friends). And that is the sorta feeling I kept getting... 'Oh well 'such n such' was going to do it for me for free so...'

 

And I've always then felt obliged to give them a really good price... which looking at it now wasn't just a really good price for them... but a pittance for something that is actually going to MAKE them money.

You should have requested a quote for an extension to your house in return. Then when he gave it to you, suck air through your teeth and announce that "all it is is putting a few bricks together and sling a skylight and window in" - tell him you "would do it yourself but haven't got time" and then say that you "have a brother in law whos cat's cousin's owner's bosses sister's boyfriend who can do it for half" what he quoted you using one of those tools advertised on the QVC channel.

 

 

I did a job for an 18yr old friend of a friend a couple months ago, single page website for Parrots that he breeds. Told him as it was pretty simple, I could do it in a day - £200. He agreed. I did the work. Shown him the site, asked for payment and then got the guy's Dad on the phone asking why I have changed the price and that he has a guy on his street who can do it for £30!

 

I have no clue how some designers are paying bills with them sort of prices. Even as a student, I wouldn't have done a site for £30!