Hi All

 

I'm needing to advice/help on this one.

 

I've been building fairly simplistic websites for the past 7 or 8 years. Basically creating sites for small businesses who simply want an online presence as a means of a starting point.

 

 

My biggest stumbling block is the actual design of in-page graphics and their corresponding layout with the rest of the site.

 

My background is in IT Support, Servers and networks, that kind of thing. I'm not a graphical artist nor have I any professional training in this field. My ability to build sites efficiently falls over when asked to enhance a site with graphical content or particularly their layout. I very much know what works for a site, or rather I can feel what works for a site but I simply cant design it. Despite knowing and using Fireworks CS4/CS5 I find myself just too slow at putting simple graphics together. My hands do not interpret whats in my mind very well.

 

I have just started a IT business with web design as one of the services and do feel that in order to progress this particular area of my business I will require a graphical artist/designer who has a keen eye for design and who can create these design solutions for me to incorporate into new and current projects.

 

 

As I am just starting out, I have currently no means of payment (yet). However I am more than wiling to pay someone once the business gets off the ground so to speak.

 

Is there anyone on this forum or who is simply reading this post that would like to use this opportunity as a platform to showcase their design skills ?

 

I would be very interested in receiving any and all feedback.

 

Many Thanks

 

Steven Young

Redacted.

2 things

 

1) If you can't design then you're not a web designer but a web developer

 

2) As Craig said, if you're charging for your services, a part of the fee is going to be for the design. Split the cost of your service with the designer.

 

I do this and it works well. I got a quote for my designs from a designer and then I factored his costs onto my costs for my work. If I charge £300 for a 3 page site, and my designer wants £200 to design it then I charge the client £500.

Fair comment all.

 

I guess I was looking at this the wrong way.

 

 

I recently gave up my full time job to give to start the business so my mindset was that of someone who is starting with nothing so therefor has nothing to give/pay.

 

I'd assumed that given the general low costs of websites these days a professional designer would be too expensive to call on given the small earnings in this sector. When I say sector I do mean websites aimed at small-medium companies i.e. those with small(ish) budgets.

 

With regards to the design of the site. I have always treated the Design and Development as a whole package rather than 2 elements. Chiefly because its me who is undertaking the whole project so there is no need (in my mind) for the logical split. Depending on the project and requirements the design and development of a site are equally balanced in their importance.

 

Going forward I will require a designer at some stage who will help to speed up the web building process and with this thinking in mind I had better start factoring in their costs too !

 

 

[QUOTE from Faevilangel

 

 

1) If you can't design then you're not a web designer but a web developer]

 

 

I have always thought of myself as a Web designer, however just not a great designer !

 

 

I dont suppose anyone can recommend a designer in the North Notts, South Yorkshire area can they ?

 

 

Thanks

 

Steven

Steve,

 

I'm assuming you get paid for the work you are doing. And part of that payment is for design. Why would you not share a portion of your fee with the person who does the design work? Or are you implying that the design has no value? And if so, why do you need a designer? Just keep designing (inefficiently) yourself and earning lower fees.

 

Craig

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you there!

Redacted.

It is better not to take up the work that you are not able to perform. Leave it to someone else

Hi Steven,

 

you want someone

- cheap / for free

- who's a good designer

- resides in your area

 

I predict you will find someone and after couple of jobs you'll find out he is:

- unexperienced and unprofessional

- telling he's a good designer but isn't

- unreliable

 

Why not do the job properly, if your product is ok without good design, it's probably better with a good design and you can sell it at a higher price and so pay the professional, reliable designer.

 

Cheers, microBlonk

Try looking at a few tutorials this might get you in the right frame of mind for designing websites. This is how I started and it has improved my skills and also widened my scope when it comes to starting a new project.

It is better not to take up the work that you are not able to perform. Leave it to someone else

 

So does this mean that each and everyone of the members on this site are all at expert level and need no further training ?

 

Are we not permitted to start somewhere on the learning ladder ?

Hi Steven,

 

you want someone

- cheap / for free

- who's a good designer

- resides in your area

 

I predict you will find someone and after couple of jobs you'll find out he is:

- unexperienced and unprofessional

- telling he's a good designer but isn't

- unreliable

 

Why not do the job properly, if your product is ok without good design, it's probably better with a good design and you can sell it at a higher price and so pay the professional, reliable designer.

 

Cheers, microBlonk

 

 

I think perhaps I've been a little disingenuous to myself here and a little too British. (one should blow ones trumpet a bit louder rather than stuff it under the rug!)

 

I'd like to say that I dont REALLY think I'm pants at design, I'm OK at the design thing. When creating the header for the posting I was being rather light hearted. After reading some feedback on my posting I should have written it in a more serious straight forward way. wow..

 

 

I was purely after some feedback on what route to take. I didn't (but do now) realise how I ought to approach future projects where a specialist designer might be required, so thanks for that. (I consider myself to have been pointed somewhat in the right direction).

 

Guess my naivety and perhaps cheeky suggestion of wanting a designer for 'nowt' annoyed a few people. Didnt mean too. As a startup business and a 1 man band at the mo), income is everything. However Thanks to you guys above I've a better idea of what I need to consider going forward.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

Try looking at a few tutorials this might get you in the right frame of mind for designing websites. This is how I started and it has improved my skills and also widened my scope when it comes to starting a new project.

 

Thanks George...suggestion appreciated.

I think there may be a little artistic snobbery going on here.

 

I would advise you to seek development in the areas you feel you are lacking. It's far more gratifying, and allows you the freedom that striking out on your own should encourage.

Excellent video!

Hi Steven,

 

I've seen a lot of small IT companies who think they can get away with offering web design alongside their other offerings, thinking it's a good idea to be a "one-stop shop" for small businesses - in fact, I used to work for one. If you're determined to go down this route, the best thing you can possibly do is build a separate brand under which to offer design services, because the two are not compatible.

Hi Steven,

 

I've seen a lot of small IT companies who think they can get away with offering web design alongside their other offerings, thinking it's a good idea to be a "one-stop shop" for small businesses - in fact, I used to work for one. If you're determined to go down this route, the best thing you can possibly do is build a separate brand under which to offer design services, because the two are not compatible.

I'd be inclined to agree with this to some extent, having worked for a similar operation myself. I think the danger is that the technical side gets over-represented, and the design side isn't really understood. That's not meant in a patronising way - just that I'm still learning design (not photoshop I'm quick to qualify; I'm talking about the actual theory of design) and looking back, as a company, we didn't have the first clue about building a successful website. The websites worked, but they were bland and didn't really provide a real solution to their business needs.

 

Not saying don't learn these things yourself - as someone else said, doing it all yourself can be very gratifying. And good design doesn't have to include graphics either. Learning about layouts, grids, typography, colour and copywriting will help enormously. Not that there's anything wrong with pretty graphics - just that many designers seem to think they are the web design, rather than a single element within the design.

Hi Steven,

 

I've seen a lot of small IT companies who think they can get away with offering web design alongside their other offerings, thinking it's a good idea to be a "one-stop shop" for small businesses - in fact, I used to work for one. If you're determined to go down this route, the best thing you can possibly do is build a separate brand under which to offer design services, because the two are not compatible.

 

 

I'd be inclined to agree with this to some extent, having worked for a similar operation myself. I think the danger is that the technical side gets over-represented, and the design side isn't really understood. That's not meant in a patronising way - just that I'm still learning design (not photoshop I'm quick to qualify; I'm talking about the actual theory of design) and looking back, as a company, we didn't have the first clue about building a successful website. The websites worked, but they were bland and didn't really provide a real solution to their business needs.

 

Not saying don't learn these things yourself - as someone else said, doing it all yourself can be very gratifying. And good design doesn't have to include graphics either. Learning about layouts, grids, typography, colour and copywriting will help enormously. Not that there's anything wrong with pretty graphics - just that many designers seem to think they are the web design, rather than a single element within the design.

 

Well said. Plus 1's

 

ps, notbanksy, I believe I just gave you your 100th reputation point

 

Kyle

Edited March 7, 201115 yr by KCooper

I'd be inclined to agree with this to some extent, having worked for a similar operation myself. I think the danger is that the technical side gets over-represented, and the design side isn't really understood. That's not meant in a patronising way - just that I'm still learning design (not photoshop I'm quick to qualify; I'm talking about the actual theory of design) and looking back, as a company, we didn't have the first clue about building a successful website. The websites worked, but they were bland and didn't really provide a real solution to their business needs.

 

How do you learn about the design you are talking about (not Photoshop)?

How do you learn about the design you are talking about (not Photoshop)?

It's not as easy to find good design resources as it should be. There's a nice community over at drawar, I highly recommend the elements of typographic style and before & after magazine. Design observer has some good stuff, although it's more of a general magazine and less of a tutorials kind of site. Andy Rutledge's blog has some excellent articles, as does Mark Boulton's.

 

It's a long road, but well worth travelling.

It's not as easy to find good design resources as it should be. There's a nice community over at drawar, I highly recommend the elements of typographic style and before & after magazine. Design observer has some good stuff, although it's more of a general magazine and less of a tutorials kind of site. Andy Rutledge's blog has some excellent articles, as does Mark Boulton's.

 

It's a long road, but well worth travelling.

 

Another +1 for the resources.

 

And if you really want to learn, Mark Boulton's hiring an apprentice at the moment.