Hi!

So I am a complete newbie, other than making simple fan websites when I was younger. 

I am 28 years old from the UK and I have been at the same job since I was 18, I want more from life and I am limited in career paths due to having bills/mortgage to pay!

I've "done website building" as I said previously as a kid for fun, I've done some basic research and I think it's where I want to head! Now in 2019 there is clearly loads of choice!

So im here looking for answers from the experts.

 

1. Windows or Mac, PC/Laptop?
2. What coding programs should I download, what is the one I should invest all my time into learning.
3. HTML5 & CSS seems to be the beginning steps, i'll learn these in and out then what? 

Sorry for the brief summary, I'm eager to get started and haven't found many support groups via facebook, which is why I am here. ANY advice is greatly appreciated!

1. Either will do. I use both

2. Depends on the device. I use Brackets on my MAC. Or Visual Code on either.

3. Create a website. HTML and CSS is all you need. Once you get the hang of content structures, images, links, navigation and so on you can explore JavaScript, PHP and other tools

And welcome to a new and often frustrating world. But when it does work the sense of satisfaction is wonderful.

Welcome to WDF. My answers;

1. Either - i use PC only but I'm just tight with my tech budget
2. Any - But like a good pair of shoes make sure you're comfortable.
3. HTML + CSS = A Website. I went PHP / SQL after but I'm more comfortable back end rather than design

I'm not an expert, but have been building website on and off over the years. I started off using notepad during the 1990s to create basic websites.

These days I use have:

PC with Windows 10

Atom as the text editor which is Free to use, and has lots of plugins if you what to use them.

The websites that I have been creating are built from HTML and CSS, I have started to dabble a little with WordPress which involves a bit of PHP. There is quite a bit of help and examples on the internet, but you may find a book helpful.

18 hours ago, fisicx said:

1. Either will do. I use both

2. Depends on the device. I use Brackets on my MAC. Or Visual Code on either.

3. Create a website. HTML and CSS is all you need. Once you get the hang of content structures, images, links, navigation and so on you can explore JavaScript, PHP and other tools

And welcome to a new and often frustrating world. But when it does work the sense of satisfaction is wonderful.

 

Okay I have a "Fairly decent" laptop that I've borrowed from my brother to get started, I have a PC too but its old and dying! I'm running windows 10 on the laptop. But I've looked at getting a mid tier Mac if I am to get serious just wondered if it was worth the extra ££ over a windows.

I have already downloaded Visual code, but I am yet to really use it as I still need to learn before I jump in.

Are you suggesting just jumping on Vscode and giving it a go? I am a little behind that I believe!

Thanks!

 

17 hours ago, BrowserBugs said:

Welcome to WDF. My answers;

1. Either - i use PC only but I'm just tight with my tech budget
2. Any - But like a good pair of shoes make sure you're comfortable.
3. HTML + CSS = A Website. I went PHP / SQL after but I'm more comfortable back end rather than design

Thanks!

Hah that's fair Macs are mega ££! I was only looking (never owned a mac but do love apple products) because I assumed they may of been a preferred choice!

For sure, VSCode has been suggested a few times in my research and it looks like something perhaps I may one day understand!

I feel perhaps I may be similar, never been to amazing with design stuff as sometimes lack creative ideas.

1 hour ago, GrahamUK33 said:

I'm not an expert, but have been building website on and off over the years. I started off using notepad during the 1990s to create basic websites.

These days I use have:

PC with Windows 10

Atom as the text editor which is Free to use, and has lots of plugins if you what to use them.

The websites that I have been creating are built from HTML and CSS, I have started to dabble a little with WordPress which involves a bit of PHP. There is quite a bit of help and examples on the internet, but you may find a book helpful.

Any suggestions on books, videos or any other usual websites or anywhere else I could find information?

Heck even if anyone has a "online school/course" depending on cost I'd likely jump at if worth it!

I have just done a quick search and found a video that starts you from the very basics.

Your First HTML & CSS Project | Learn Web Development Now

12 minutes ago, GrahamUK33 said:

I have just done a quick search and found a video that starts you from the very basics.

Your First HTML & CSS Project | Learn Web Development Now

Okay brilliant had a scan through I see it's on VScode. I'm currently following along on freecodecamp.org where I'm getting a feel for the html coding. It's very basic but that is my current skillset level, once I've gone through this what feels like tutorial, I'll give that video a go and follow along. 

I must say, at least right now I feel some what brain dead when it comes to remembering code, I guess that's because I haven't actually learnt the code and I am merely trying to remember what it is, rather than KNOW what it is.

19 minutes ago, MonsterST said:

Are you suggesting just jumping on Vscode and giving it a go? I am a little behind that I believe!

Yes!

The stuff you did as a kid still works. The first website I built back in 2004 is still up and running and just uses plain HTML and CSS and was all hand coded.

I began with a simple 'hallo world' page and worked my way up. I eventually needed a contact form so learnt how to do that from an online tutorial. I then discovered PHP and never looked back.

It doesn't happen overnight but there are bazillions of online tutorials, examples and forums you can dip into when you get stuck.

Just now, fisicx said:

Yes!

The stuff you did as a kid still works. The first website I built back in 2004 is still up and running and just uses plain HTML and CSS and was all hand coded.

I began with a simple 'hallo world' page and worked my way up. I eventually needed a contact form so learnt how to do that from an online tutorial. I then discovered PHP and never looked back.

It doesn't happen overnight but there are bazillions of online tutorials, examples and forums you can dip into when you get stuck.

Straight in! I get what you're saying, I do wish I could remember that far back sadly I can't. It was very basic, but I self taught then by visiting similar sites and looking at the HTML code and basically copy/pasting parts and changing bits to suit what I needed lol.

As just said above, once I finish this freecodecamp tutorial I will jump in and 'play around' 

 

- If anyone is comfortable throwing some figures out, I'd love to know what people earn be it a salary or freelance. I am currently a Postman in the UK and the pay is good for unskilled work, but 10 years later I'm in the same position as I was when I started and I need more from life!

 

If you don't want to learn how to use VSCode, you can just use Notepad (within Windows) which will allow you to create basic websites. 

I build WordPress plugins. They are all free but have an upgrade option. The 5 plugins earn me around $50/day. Which is just over $18,000/year for doing diddly squat. Note: it's $ because most sales are outside the UK.

Add to this all the custom and bespoke work and I earn enough to pay the bills. And it means I can get away with working about 4 hours a day.

Other developers earn an awful lot more than me. But they also work a lot more than me.

1 minute ago, GrahamUK33 said:

If you don't want to learn how to use VSCode, you can just use Notepad (within Windows) which will allow you to create basic websites. 

VS Code is an HTML editor - the same code you use in Notepad. Big advantage is all the automation and validation VS gives you.

9 minutes ago, fisicx said:

I build WordPress plugins. They are all free but have an upgrade option. The 5 plugins earn me around $50/day. Which is just over $18,000/year for doing diddly squat. Note: it's $ because most sales are outside the UK.

Add to this all the custom and bespoke work and I earn enough to pay the bills. And it means I can get away with working about 4 hours a day.

Other developers earn an awful lot more than me. But they also work a lot more than me.

Dam. What sort of custom and bespoke work do you do? 

I've had a simple search on job sites and I'd like to get to the level of Graduate/Junior web development in 2 years max, which is slightly behind my salary but would give me on the job learning and experience. 

"Front end Web developer" is where I then start gaining some additional salary, then whatever #C, .NET, ASAP.NET MVC seems to be where there is some serious money to be made. Obviously those mean nothing to me right now, but if I could get to that level in 7 years, by the time I am 35. I will be a very happy/proud man. 

My only worry is will self teaching be enough to get me to those levels, or is it something only those lucky enough to go to UNI will achieve?

The emergence of site builders and low cost developers from India and other places means earning a living building website is hard work. You spend more time marketing than you ever do writing code.

The plugins and bespoke work I do has taken me about 5 years to build up, again learning as I go. I could have done a course but I like my ad hoc way of doing things.

Applications, plugins, themes, extension and similar can earn you far more than churning out websites.

@rbrtsmith will (probably) tell you that JS is the way forwards. Just about all modern sites are built using JS frameworks. You could learn #C or ASP.NET but can't see the point.

5 minutes ago, fisicx said:

The emergence of site builders and low cost developers from India and other places means earning a living building website is hard work. You spend more time marketing than you ever do writing code.

The plugins and bespoke work I do has taken me about 5 years to build up, again learning as I go. I could have done a course but I like my ad hoc way of doing things.

Applications, plugins, themes, extension and similar can earn you far more than churning out websites.

@rbrtsmith will (probably) tell you that JS is the way forwards. Just about all modern sites are built using JS frameworks. You could learn #C or ASP.NET but can't see the point.

Yes, I joined various FB groups and it's full of folk from India, mostly spamming to be fair but then offering very low cost sites.

So it is possible to spend time to self teach then, good to hear. Just wonder what's best course vs at home learning but suppose it's down to the individual.

JS = Javascript? So something to learn then.

This was taken from a job ad under Website Development and the pay is 35k-55k which is mental! Again if I could ever step into this kind of job I'd feel very greatful. But this is obviously some way from simple HTML and CSS basics?

"You should be experienced in: .NET, ASP.NET, C# and SQL Server. You will be trained in all aspects of: .NET 4.5, ASP.NET MVC 5, C#, Azure, WebAPI 2, RabbitMQ, ElasticSearch, JavaScript, HTML, CSS, Angular and Agile."

 

Forget web developer jobs. They are a long way down the line.

Start with something very simple. Just build a site with your bio, some images, links to sites you like and contact details. Use this as the basis for everything else you do.

5 minutes ago, fisicx said:

Forget web developer jobs. They are a long way down the line.

Start with something very simple. Just build a site with your bio, some images, links to sites you like and contact details. Use this as the basis for everything else you do.

I know! Just an end goal in mind.

Will do, once I do. I'll be back to update. I appreciate all the advice, I really do.

Bought a course from Udemy "The complete web developer course 2" see how we get on.

If you're looking to become a developer then it might be worth investing in a coding bootcamp.  We've employed two people who did a 12-week bootcamp on just shy of £30k which isn't bad considering their initial £6k investment.  Their salaries will likely rise to >£36k in 12 months time which is not bad considering they had never written any code before the turn of 2019.

As a front-end developer in Manchester you can expect to start as an associate on around 22k (pay is quite a bit higher than average with my employer, principal engineers can make well in excess of £100k, typical for Manchester employees at that level is around £70k) . So the money is good.  Bear in mind this is Manchester, in London salaries will be higher still.  The £35-55k salaries are mid-level here.
I started learning web development in 2012 and I'm very close to principal engineer level at Moonpig so it's doable It's doable in 5-8 years.  Mid-level should be achievable in around 3 I'd say.

If you have the cash to invest I'd definitely go down the bootcamp route as they have good links to employers, if you can't afford that try somewhere like Treehouse.  That's who I used and it took me 7 months to land my first job, others have done it more quickly.   It's useful to have something structured.

The bootcamp we hire from is https://northcoders.com/

Udemy is very hit and miss, I'd argue mostly miss because anybody can publish a course, it's littered with self proclaimed experts.  Treehouse is more curated and I can vouch that Northcoders know their stuff when it comes to modern tech stacks.

There is a lot of cheap websites coming out of places like India etc but it's almost all garbage so if you get reasonably competent then they shouldn't pose any kind of burden.  I personally prefer writing code rather than marketing though so I'm happy being employed, the money seems comparable to what a freelancer with equal technical experience would make, and working with others means you'll learn faster.

Edited August 29, 20197 yr by rbrtsmith

Welcome and thanks for your post here and good answers. I am new to design too, looking how to start a career. But first of all, how to learn basics.