My main goal is to leave the UK once I attain a degree in electrical engineering.

Because over here they don't really value professionals, you'll come out of college/uni after training and there'll still be no job for you.

Even this I thought I could land a job in, but the situation is the same as any career, they want someone with prior experience. In usa they take people fresh out of college, and they actually value professionals, I just think over here unless you know someone your not gonna get a job, let alone a career. Over here it's all about low paid crappy jobs, actual professionals are never valued.

In US they come out of college with decent salary after getting a degree, over here that never happens, they don't even value education. I just think even this, you'll learn what you think is enough to get a job, but it turns out you need to learn more and more and more, reality is there's no job for you. I would go develop some stuff, but think they even after doing that there'll be no job. Like what do even think of as an engineer anyway? It doesn't exist over here.

UK is home of depression.

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by NullDrone

The UK has plenty of jobs and they're well paid in good companies.

As for experience, people have commented on this for you numerous times already. If this was truly the case, no one on this forum would be employed. You need to continue to learn on every job, going to college isn't enough learning to sustain your career for the rest of your life. You're also not a professional when you graduate, you have a lot more to learn, so you're probably putting yourself in a bracket that you're not part of yet.

If you're struggling to find a job, then it's probably because you're trying to do "just enough" when everyone else is outdoing you. Many graduates going into the web industry for the first time are excited to do so, they often go well above to make themselves employable.

I've lived in a few countries and I think the UK is great.  There's a reason I moved back here after living in Australia and Sweden.

Leaving uni also does not equal professional, the real learning comes after that, uni really is just the tip of the iceberg.  That said Sky hires graduates on £28k which is a decent salary, remember in the US you have no NHS or anything like that to fall back on.

In terms of knowing people:  I didn't know anybody at any of the jobs I've applied at and successfully landed.  Knowing people does help when you have built up a good rep, but it can work the other way if you perform badly.

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by rbrtsmith

26 minutes ago, Jack said:

The UK has plenty of jobs and they're well paid in good companies.

As for experience, people have commented on this for you numerous times already. If this was truly the case, no one on this forum would be employed. You need to continue to learn on every job, going to college isn't enough learning to sustain your career for the rest of your life. You're also not a professional when you graduate, you have a lot more to learn, so you're probably putting yourself in a bracket that you're not part of yet.

If you're struggling to find a job, then it's probably because you're trying to do "just enough" when everyone else is outdoing you. Many graduates going into the web industry for the first time are excited to do so, they often go well above to make themselves employable.

It seems like you need to continue to learn without even having the job.

Love the UK. I've worked in Barcelona, Andorra and India ... was fun but being born in the UK I find an affinity here, like a comfy pair of shoes, warts and all. The countries i've worked in had their own hang ups, there is no such place as perfect.

As for work, I echo the others. It's not about who you know, it's about what you know. Sure there are "boys clubs" but I've not seen it in this industry. Essentially your worth is what you bring to the role, juniors bring fresh enthusiasm to the veterans that bring war torn scars of learning and exploration. 

In electrical engineering I've never seen anyone with a decent salary, most of the them only got the job because they knew someone, and when you come out of uni with degree in electrical engineering there'll still be no job for you.

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by NullDrone

1 hour ago, NullDrone said:

In electrical engineering I've never seen anyone with a decent salary, most of the them only got the job because they knew someone, and when you come out of uni with degree in electrical engineering there'll still be no job for you.

If you are money driven why did you do something if you (by your own admission) know that the pay isn't good?

Getting a degree isn't a ticket to a job either.  For any job you have to demonstrate that you can go in and add value, they're not charities.  As for learning - yes of course you need to continue learning like any career, this isn't exclusive to the UK.  There will always be competition for jobs especially any that are well paid.

I hope that your negative outlook doesn't come across in interviews because if employers see that you will be unlikely to get the job, the last thing anybody wants is negativity spilling into the workplace.  Judging by some of your posts your struggle to find work might not be soley down to skillset.

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by rbrtsmith

4 hours ago, rbrtsmith said:

If you are money driven why did you do something if you (by your own admission) know that the pay isn't good?

Getting a degree isn't a ticket to a job either.  For any job you have to demonstrate that you can go in and add value, they're not charities.  As for learning - yes of course you need to continue learning like any career, this isn't exclusive to the UK.  There will always be competition for jobs especially any that are well paid.

I hope that your negative outlook doesn't come across in interviews because if employers see that you will be unlikely to get the job, the last thing anybody wants is negativity spilling into the workplace.  Judging by some of your posts your struggle to find work might not be soley down to skillset.

The money is good in electrical design engineering, but I don't think so for other aspects of electrical engineering.

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by NullDrone

I worked in the USA for a while and can assure you that getting a job is just a difficult as in the UK. There is a surfeit of qualified people all chasing the same few vacancies.

9 minutes ago, fisicx said:

I worked in the USA for a while and can assure you that getting a job is just a difficult as in the UK. There is a surfeit of qualified people all chasing the same few vacancies.

Yh but what if u can go anywhere in the USA, there's bound to be a location with a lot of demand and less supply. UK is very small, saying that I could buy a car and travel in the UK.

51 minutes ago, NullDrone said:

Yh but what if u can go anywhere in the USA, there's bound to be a location with a lot of demand and less supply. UK is very small, saying that I could buy a car and travel in the UK.

The USA isn't like that. It's very parochial - people employ locally - and often only union members.

Which is why you have highly qualified people working in McDonalds.

There averages is like double what we have over here, especially engineering.

For experienced engineers with a proven track record maybe yes.

For you fresh out of uni very unlikely. And you will still need to get local qualifications:

https://work.chron.com/licensed-electrical-engineering-us-27947.html

12 hours ago, NullDrone said:

There averages is like double what we have over here, especially engineering.

Not really true.  Remember in the US you have to take into account that you'll need to pay for private medical insurance for you and family members, there is no real social security system to fall back on should you struggle like here.  Education in the US is FAR more expensive.
Major cities like New York and San Francisco (where these higher salaries are) are prohibitively expensive.  Average cost of a dwelling is around the £600k mark in SF.  That makes London look like good value.
Another thing to add is that if you gravitate to areas with high pay so does your competition.  To land a dev job in SF will have to be of a higher standard than say Montgomery Alabama.

Edited December 15, 20187 yr by rbrtsmith

10 hours ago, rbrtsmith said:

Not really true.  Remember in the US you have to take into account that you'll need to pay for private medical insurance for you and family members, there is no real social security system to fall back on should you struggle like here.  Education in the US is FAR more expensive.
Major cities like New York and San Francisco (where these higher salaries are) are prohibitively expensive.  Average cost of a dwelling is around the £600k mark in SF.  That makes London look like good value.
Another thing to add is that if you gravitate to areas with high pay so does your competition.  To land a dev job in SF will have to be of a higher standard than say Montgomery Alabama.

Standard of living is twice as good as what we have here, if you have a career lined up for you it's all good. At least the companies take students on fresh out of college. The averages in salaries are basically double. Sure, there's not much security but you can always leave to return to the UK if it was ever rough.

Edited December 15, 20187 yr by NullDrone

11 hours ago, NullDrone said:

Standard of living is twice as good as what we have here

No it's not. Look at the stats. The number of people on median wage is higher than in Europe.

I have a number of friends in he USA and they are all finding it tough.

11 hours ago, NullDrone said:

At least the companies take students on fresh out of college.

Yes, but they have US qualifications. You don't.

Your just gonna disagree with whatever I say, so no point in arguing now is there.

A degree is internationally recognized. Not all companies require ABET accreditation.

Edited December 16, 20187 yr by NullDrone

I've working in the USA. I know people who are working in the USA. I know electrical engineers.

If you want to work in the USA as an electrical engineer you need US qualifications. I posted a link for you explaining all this.

I don't have any issues with your wanting to work over there, I just know from experience that you will not be able to walk into a high paying job. Have you looked at the vacancies for Electrical Engineers in the USA?

PS: I've been an engineer for over 40 years

Edited December 16, 20187 yr by fisicx

10 minutes ago, fisicx said:

I've working in the USA. I know people who are working in the USA. I know electrical engineers.

If you want to work in the USA as an electrical engineer you need US qualifications. I posted a link for you explaining all this.

I don't have any issues with your wanting to work over there, I just know from experience that you will not be able to walk into a high paying job. Have you looked at the vacancies for Electrical Engineers in the USA?

PS: I've been an engineer for over 40 years

oh, so why did you switch to web dev?

I still do both.

On 12/15/2018 at 7:57 PM, NullDrone said:

Standard of living is twice as good as what we have here, if you have a career lined up for you it's all good. At least the companies take students on fresh out of college. 

Companies here take students out of uni, but only the brightest and those that add value - as is the case in the US.  I did sound engineering at uni and honestly out of the people on my course I'd hire about 5.  Some of them I wouldn't trust to take out the dustbins.  Having a degree does not mean that person is going to add value.  They need the right fit for the team.  I would avoid hiring the most talented developer if they had the kind of attitude that brought down the team, I'd only hire team players and those that add value to the organisation.

 

As for standard of living, yeah it's great in the US if you earn $200k and don't have kids.  If you then have kids and say one of them has a long term illness that's it.  you're going to be broke.  You're also about 400% more likely to be shot walking to the shops than you are here.  Seriously what are you basing this standard of living abroad on?  You sound naive just like I was, I quickly learned that the grass isn't greener whilst living abroad, it's not some kind of utopia.

Also you talk about average salaries being double, I'm sure I've explained in this thread already that this is irrelevant, where you get these high salaries the property prices are around 3 x what they are in London!! then you have to fund your own medical care / insurance.  I've a friend living in San Fransisco as a developer and he cannot afford to buy a property and he's earning $160k, he's having to flat share with 3 other guys - great standard of living that!

Edited December 17, 20187 yr by rbrtsmith

1 hour ago, rbrtsmith said:

Companies here take students out of uni, but only the brightest and those that add value - as is the case in the US.  I did sound engineering at uni and honestly out of the people on my course I'd hire about 5.  Some of them I wouldn't trust to take out the dustbins.  Having a degree does not mean that person is going to add value.  They need the right fit for the team.  I would avoid hiring the most talented developer if they had the kind of attitude that brought down the team, I'd only hire team players and those that add value to the organisation.

 

As for standard of living, yeah it's great in the US if you earn $200k and don't have kids.  If you then have kids and say one of them has a long term illness that's it.  you're going to be broke.  You're also about 400% more likely to be shot walking to the shops than you are here.  Seriously what are you basing this standard of living abroad on?  You sound naive just like I was, I quickly learned that the grass isn't greener whilst living abroad, it's not some kind of utopia.

Also you talk about average salaries being double, I'm sure I've explained in this thread already that this is irrelevant, where you get these high salaries the property prices are around 3 x what they are in London!! then you have to fund your own medical care / insurance.  I've a friend living in San Fransisco as a developer and he cannot afford to buy a property and he's earning $160k, he's having to flat share with 3 other guys - great standard of living that!

I am making  friends with people in the USA, so earning a high salary you can live with them and buy a home here. It must be doable. If not USA there's always canada or australia.

Edited December 17, 20187 yr by NullDrone

3 hours ago, NullDrone said:

I am making  friends with people in the USA, so earning a high salary you can live with them and buy a home here. It must be doable. If not USA there's always canada or australia.

Also lived in Australia, my sister lives in Vancouver.  Major cities in those areas also have VERY expensive property prices so you have the same problems as the UK (the world) your disposable income is about the same.

I don't think your problems are down to your location here in the UK.

19 hours ago, rbrtsmith said:

Also lived in Australia, my sister lives in Vancouver.  Major cities in those areas also have VERY expensive property prices so you have the same problems as the UK (the world) your disposable income is about the same.

I don't think your problems are down to your location here in the UK.

They have many opportunities for engineers and many take students straight out of college after completing there degree. I think subconsciously i've always wanted to move abroad for a professional career. I have seen on USA job ads they require 0-3 years experience.

Edited December 18, 20187 yr by NullDrone

All of these vacancies will be filled by local graduates. They will not take on someone from the UK.

You need to move to your chosen country, get locally qualified, get a permit to work and then look for a job.

Fisicx makes a good point, why would they go through the rigamarole and expense of getting you a sponsorship visa + relocation package when they can hire somebody without all that.  They won't be hiring you straight from college or uni like you seem to think.  Maybe with some really solid experience.  Some devs get sponsored out there but rarely from uni and those are typically the top 1-2% of developers.

People here can get hired right out of uni, but you have to demonstrate that you can add value - this is the same in every country, nobody is going to hire you unless you can add more value - more value than your competition 

@rbrtsmithYour just giving a counterargument to whatever I say, half the smarts is being able to find somewhere that is low in rent costs in comparison to salary. I bet it's possible. People only pay more and get paid less because their not very good at looking around. If you make friends with people and can live with them, it's a plan. But I kind of agree with your above point, you have to have accreditation from an ABET uni, so makes me wonder if it would be better immigrating to canada. Although not every employer requires an accredited uni, but I'm not likely to be sponsored. I see on job ads they take people on with 0-3 years experience.

Edited December 18, 20187 yr by NullDrone

17 hours ago, NullDrone said:

@rbrtsmithYour just giving a counterargument to whatever I say

I do so because I disagree with what you are saying - this is based on personal experience having lived abroad in two countries.  I only know of one person who has successfully managed to land a well paid job abroad straight out of uni (At Microsoft) - and that's only because he was fortunate enough to be put on a placement with them in Reading and he happened to be one of the most talented students they had come across - out of the placement students only he was hired.
However this is the same guy I mentioned above who is unable to afford to buy a house because of the crazy prices in San Fransisco - high salaries usually equal expensive houses due to competition.

I don't want to be all doom and gloom but I was very negative about the UK before I left to work elsewhere, I had this idea that everywhere else was so much better - and in some respects they are but in others they are not.  It's funny how myself and the majority of people I know who moved back are doing better here than they were abroad.

Assuming you are under 30 you could try taking out a working holiday visa to try working in Australia, Canada and see for yourself.  This is what it took for me to realise I was being naive.

Edited December 19, 20187 yr by rbrtsmith

It's funny when people say they want to move from the UK because it's expensive. A nice first time buyer house is just under half a million where I live, and the salaries aren't higher. When I look at places on TV, especially up north, you could never get that here. It's all about perspective, things really aren't as bad as you think.

Been down the pub today with a couple of mates one of whom is an electrical engineer. He's earning over £100K a year as a contractor. There is loads of work out there, you just need to be prepared to travel a bit. He said he started earning big money when he started contracting.

18 hours ago, fisicx said:

Been down the pub today with a couple of mates one of whom is an electrical engineer. He's earning over £100K a year as a contractor. There is loads of work out there, you just need to be prepared to travel a bit. He said he started earning big money when he started contracting.

I can't imagine he just arrived there though, probably spend years building his career up to get to the point of contracting.

6 minutes ago, Jack said:

I can't imagine he just arrived there though, probably spend years building his career up to get to the point of contracting.

Bang on mate. Got a client who started out his career as a Hod Carrier and now runs his own construction company. People like this inspire me to do better.

21 minutes ago, Jack said:

I can't imagine he just arrived there though, probably spend years building his career up to get to the point of contracting.

Quite correct. The point I was trying to make is that you can earn big money in the UK. You aren’t going to walk into a high paying job overseas, you need start at the bottom and work up.

I will tell you that there is much worth country to live in - Spain.... People complain a lot that there is no work and money, always have "siestas" and "fiestas"... Even some restaurants close there for lunch! I was renting property in Barcelona for 2 years and I know what I am talking about. What they good at is creating new languages within their country and rest. Weather is nice as well. But people are so lazy... 

 

On 12/20/2018 at 3:14 PM, fisicx said:

Been down the pub today with a couple of mates one of whom is an electrical engineer. He's earning over £100K a year as a contractor. There is loads of work out there, you just need to be prepared to travel a bit. He said he started earning big money when he started contracting.

Myself and citypaul who used to be on here have been contracting for about a year and it's a great way of earning a lot of money, and that can be useful when negotiating a salaried position as I have been doing recently…

As a contract software dev your can make anywhere upto about £130k a year up here, in London it can be significantly more.  As said by others though you need quite a few years of commercial experience to really consider contracting.

Edited December 22, 20187 yr by rbrtsmith

I thought originally something like this would be easy to find a job in, but the reality is there's just too much competition for even junior roles, bit of a waste of time.

We did tell you but you didn’t want to listen.