Hello guys, looking for peoples inputs - I realise everyone will have a different policy/idea etc but trying to find the general.

 

I created a logo for a customer a week or so ago & this customer was referred to me through one of my local printers. So I did the work, sent the artwork, low res as you do - waiting for a response. I did a few concepts so put them on social media as I do with every piece of work & this morning I had a phone call from the printer to say the customer had rang him & he would like it removed off Facebook as I don't have permission to use it. I thought fair enough, ill follow that request - BUT whats really urked me - the customer hasn't paid me and I don't think he will I have other work to complete for him but unsure weather to do the work or just turn the job away, it feels like one of those jobs that will be a real nightmare.

I wouldn't progress any further without the client paying for the work to date. If the client seems like they will be a nightmare, get the outstanding payment and draw a line there.

I wouldn't progress any further without the client paying for the work to date. If the client seems like they will be a nightmare, get the outstanding payment and draw a line there.

 

My thoughts exactly - you seems to get a gut instinct about certain people and you just know they are going to be hard work.

 

My thoughts exactly - you seems to get a gut instinct about certain people and you just know they are going to be hard work.

 

Absolutely, and it's not often worth the effort and stress, not if you have other work to focus on.

I echo the above. However, I also think it worth adding:

 

1) I'm surprised you did any work without a deposit; a deposit shows commitment

2) I can understand the client being disgruntled that potential logo ideas were put on Facebook before they've actually decided on what they want. Imagine getting a new logo designed for your business, being really excited about it, showing someone with a big smile on your face, and then having them say "cool, I saw it on Facebook already".

 

I do normally take deposits. On this occasion I didn't as it was a referral from a friend.

 

It was a collection of concepts, 8 or so for him - never ever bene a problem - lesson learnt I guess.

 

Absolutely, and it's not often worth the effort and stress, not if you have other work to focus on.

 

Which I do - its now annoyed me and can't concentrate ;D

 

Have other clients been happy with this or have they just not said anything out of politeness or because they weren't aware of it? It might be worth thinking about.

 

I must of done 300 + logos and always have posted concepts - never had a problem with it - same with other artwork Flyers etc - never had a problem, I deal with some bigger businesses and they like that I show my concepts to people as it always has a story behind their development. However, there have been a few ideas that I couldn't shared because i have a NDA or the logo is going through trademark etc

 

I do normally take deposits. On this occasion I didn't as it was a referral from a friend.

 

It was a collection of concepts, 8 or so for him - never ever bene a problem - lesson learnt I guess.

 

It's generally ok once the project has been out in the wild for a while.

 

It's generally ok once the project has been out in the wild for a while.

 

Yep - just found his business page and customer had shared it his business stuff " Do you like our new logo"

 

 

Fair enough. In my head I'm thinking that all of that sounds great, but that I'd wait until after the project had been completed and launched. Maybe I'm over cautious.

 

Maybe i was a touch eager with this one

Always walk away when there's a bunch of red flags, there's plenty of other clients around. if not just for your time, for your sanity too. Bad clients can be a major headache.

Hello guys, looking for peoples inputs - I realise everyone will have a different policy/idea etc but trying to find the general.

 

I created a logo for a customer a week or so ago & this customer was referred to me through one of my local printers. So I did the work, sent the artwork, low res as you do - waiting for a response. I did a few concepts so put them on social media as I do with every piece of work & this morning I had a phone call from the printer to say the customer had rang him & he would like it removed off Facebook as I don't have permission to use it. I thought fair enough, ill follow that request - BUT whats really urked me - the customer hasn't paid me and I don't think he will I have other work to complete for him but unsure weather to do the work or just turn the job away, it feels like one of those jobs that will be a real nightmare.

 

Until payment is made the work belongs to you and you can do what you want with it unless you have a prior non disclosure agreement, after they have paid for it, it would depend on what your contract says, if you dont have a contract I suggest you make one because it entirely depends if you are licensing use or giving up all rights to the work once the work is complete.

 

Until payment is made the work belongs to you and you can do what you want with it unless you have a prior non disclosure agreement, after they have paid for it, it would depend on what your contract says, if you dont have a contract I suggest you make one because it entirely depends if you are licensing use or giving up all rights to the work once the work is complete.

 

Do have terms of business - which are emailed along with the quote and displayed on my website.

 

No, NDA prior

 

Do have terms of business - which are emailed along with the quote and displayed on my website.

 

No, NDA prior

 

Your terms of business are not worth anything unless the client signs it or you have some other way to guarantee it was read and understood (with evidence of that fact), that's why we have contracts before any work is started. Reading above it was stupid to start any work until the client had paid anything anyway, I would recommend you look into your own procedures and change them accordingly.

If the logo clearly displayed the name of his business he is within his rights to ask you to remove the logo from public display.

 

The owner may be planning a major re-brand and relaunch of the business and that may have now been advertised to his competitors and effectively scuppered.

 

That said any businessman with half a brain should have had the wit to stipulate at the outset that nothing was to be placed in the public domain until they gave explicit permission.

The artwork may be yours because he hasn't paid, but think of it as this, perhaps a competing brand saw the logo, decided to steal yours instead, and then your client puts your out after, and then your client gets sued because of transmark infringment. Your client has every right to be pissed. When the logo is being worked on, keep it private. Its only common business etiquette. You want to flash it around facebook, do so only after the client has paid for it and it has gone public. Your client needs to come first.

If the logo clearly displayed the name of his business he is within his rights to ask you to remove the logo from public display.

 

The owner may be planning a major re-brand and relaunch of the business and that may have now been advertised to his competitors and effectively scuppered.

 

That said any businessman with half a brain should have had the wit to stipulate at the outset that nothing was to be placed in the public domain until they gave explicit permission.

 

Disagree with this one. I don't need "permission" legally my ltd co owns the copyright and the artwork until said customer pays. I've no come to the conclusion he is a very "set in his ways" old man - he is 70 + I doubt his competitors would of done that, as from what i know he makes a six figure salary.

 

If a customer/poteniall customer makes it clear, by way of NDA or some other agreement - I will oblige - however, the customer in this case said nada - am i suppose to read his mind? I asked the question - never got a response - either way, ill see how it plays out - its a learning curve in my view, each customers needs are different - tell me/my business your needs and ill follow them - i don't have a mind reading power - which some clients expect me/creative people to have.

 

With regards to deposits and terms - we send a quote out with two things, a "esig terms" he signed it - a quote for the work, with a button to click "accept" which then turns said quote, into a purchase order from the customer to my business and then I accept the purchase order - everyone knows where they stand with that situation.

 

I also, always take deposits BUT on this occasion - as a good friend referred him to me, whom has referred many customers - I didn't something i've now paid the price for if you like - lucky i sent a watermarked low res jpg.

If the business name is that of a company registered at Companies House or is an established trading name recognised by HMRC then the owner retains the rights to that name and you may take no action that may impinge or impair the operation of the business. Run it by a legal expert but I'm pretty sure the business could have taken action against you.

 

If you had posted the designs with a placeholder name then everything would have been good.

 

What you need to do is do the clients thinking for them. After twenty years running my own business I developed quite formidable telepathic powers.

 

However it is easiest to leave nothing to chance and to ensure that everything is nailed down at the outset of any business relationship. It protects you and it protects them. One thing many business owners like is to work with a sub-contractor who understands the importance of confidentiality. The last thing you need is for the old geezer to be popping along to the local golf club, rotary club and Freemasons lodge saying that you blab peoples business from the rooftops. That may sound middle class and snobby but in the UK running businesses is a pretty much middle class preserve and those are the sort of haunts where businesses are made or broken.

 

You may say, 'Well I could work for people anywhere in the world', well you could but although the web is world wide the people who use it still have a village mentality and like to hire people geographically close to them. So at the outset your initial client base will be fairly local, you can't antagonise them.

It's useless to go further because if we are not getting our due then what's the point in wasting more time?

 

 

Fair enough. In my head I'm thinking that all of that sounds great, but that I'd wait until after the project had been completed and launched. Maybe I'm over cautious.

No, I think you are rightly cautious. We should be very careful in creative fields. For a similar situation I wrote "A Code Child".

 

I personally think that @@cherrydesigns should not post any design that he is working on for someone else. Someone else can re-create his design and sell it before him, that will make cherrydesigns looks like a design cheater.