Hi,

I am hoping to develop a website for the school I work in. I have some knowledge of HTML and CSS and a little of PHP. I know that I would need to develop my knowledge and this is something I hope to do whilst developing a website.

I would like a site to follow the them of the following sites,

http://www.greenhaworth.co.uk and http://www.pepperhillschool.co.uk

My only attempt at building websites has been to design the template on Photoshop, slice and build the webpages via CSS.

In others opinions, would you suggest this to be the best approach or could you advise otherwise.

Any general feedback would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Firstly, welcome to WDF

 

I don't know what your knowledge of website development is like, so please don't take the below as patronising if it's obvious stuff to you.

 

You'll likely want to build the website on a Content Management System (CMS). A CMS, when integrated properly, will enable other users to update and create content on the website without any coding knowledge. It also allows for dynamic content without the initial development pains.

 

As you can imagine, there are a huge number of CMS solutions, making it hard to decide which one is right for you or your organisation. There are probably certain CMSs the government prefer schools to use, too. That said, I would recommend Wordpress as a solution for you. It's very simple to pick up, requires very little coding (PHP) knowledge for basic development, and is one of the most popular and current CMSs out there, so it's updated and patched regularly.

 

There are a plethora of free tutorials online helping you to get started with Wordpress. The alternative is to start from a template (license permitting), or even buy a theme. It really depends on how much time and money the school is willing to invest in the new site.

 

I hope that helps you at least start your research.

Edited November 23, 201411 yr by andy9l

Firstly, welcome to WDF :good:I don't know what your knowledge of website development is like, so please don't take the below as patronising if it's obvious stuff to you.You'll likely want to build the website on a Content Management System (CMS). A CMS, when integrated properly, will enable other users to update and create content on the website without any coding knowledge. It also allows for dynamic content without the initial development pains.As you can imagine, there are a huge number of CMS solutions, making it hard to decide which one is right for you or your organisation. There are probably certain CMSs the government prefer schools to use, too. That said, I would recommend Wordpress as a solution for you. It's very simple to pick up, requires very little coding (PHP) knowledge for basic development, and is one of the most popular and current CMSs out there, so it's updated and patched regularly.There are a plethora of free tutorials online helping you to get started with Wordpress. The alternative is to start from a template (license permitting), or even buy a theme. It really depends on how much time and money the school is willing to invest in the new site.I hope that helps you at least start your research.

Thanks for the reply!

I am hoping to integrate Wordpress into the site but was hoping that I could make a custom theme (only begun to look into this). Just didn't want to start building via html and css if this is not the best/easiest route for a custom site I know it will need to be converted to php for Wordpress. But my understanding is that I can build the frame of the site using slices images from Photoshop and use css and div tags to build the site, then break it all up into the essential php parts for Wordpress after

The php code you use with a cms like WordPress works in conjunction with html. a .php file generally contains html and php. So you will still be using html and css, php does not make these obsolete.

Your css should live within an external file and so should any JavaScript. Ensure you are using html5 as that is now the industry standard as too are responsive layouts that adapt to the viewport size so your site will look great on any device. If you are not familiar with these concepts there are plenty of tutorials out there.

 

If you are serious about getting good at web development then I'd highly recommend Treehouse, it's a great place for beginners.

Sure, that's pretty much spot on.

 

I always develop static HTML+CSS prototypes of each page template first. From there, I split the code into header.php, sidebar.php, footer.php, etc., and create the other necessary template files. I'm sure there's other ways, but that's always worked for me and it might be an easy way for you to start too.

 

Remember, though, the way design is headed, fewer 'Photoshopped websites' are being built. It's all flat design, extensive use of CSS3, and large, high-quality imagery. Focus on delivery of content, not on skeuomorphism design. Think iOS 7 or 8, not iOS 6 on the iPhone

 

The Green Haworth website you posted earlier is a great example of a site that has focused on design, not fulfilling a purpose - the content therein is hard to reach, hard to read, and in some cases, almost non-existent.

 

 

Perhaps a little exaggerated to get my point across, but you see what I'm getting at. The purpose of that page is to inform parents of how the school supports spiritual development. A one-liner would not instil me with trust.

Edited November 23, 201411 yr by andy9l

Thanks both for the advice! Will get starting soon. Will also feedback what you said about user friendly, we have completed internal questionnaires about the design. Asking parents might be our best bed

 

Thanks again

One of the biggest mistakes I see when creating a website for primary or infant children when it comes to their websites is that they build it to appeal to the children, now don't get me wrong, a Little fun in the design to give that air of being for children is a good thing but ultimately it's the parents that would use the site so target the design towards them.

 

You want parents to come to the website and get the latest school information so it has to appeal to them. Of course if you want to attract the children to some of the site, somewhere they could play games, learn and showcase school activities and their own work, create a section geared towards the children but still in keeping with the adult design

 

And for God sakes, don't do the mistake that most do, the font comic sands is never a good font even when building a website for children.

 

As you would probably ignore my main advice (get a professional designer to do it for you) those are my tips.

Wordpress is the best platform for your project. But one thing I want to know is that, for whom are wanting to make the site, for management staff or students and parents. School project is a huge project, break it in small parts. Design a flowchart and then proceed.

One of the biggest mistakes I see when creating a website for primary or infant children when it comes to their websites is that they build it to appeal to the children, now don't get me wrong, a Little fun in the design to give that air of being for children is a good thing but ultimately it's the parents that would use the site so target the design towards them.

You want parents to come to the website and get the latest school information so it has to appeal to them. Of course if you want to attract the children to some of the site, somewhere they could play games, learn and showcase school activities and their own work, create a section geared towards the children but still in keeping with the adult design

And for God sakes, don't do the mistake that most do, the font comic sands is never a good font even when building a website for children.

As you would probably ignore my main advice (get a professional designer to do it for you) those are my tips.

Haha I woudnt dream of using comic sans. It's banned in my classroom and banned for the website too!!!

We will be looking to aim to website at adults but with child friendly interface as I hope once it's all set up, children, using Wordpress will help update and maintain content.

 

Thanks again for the advice

 

The php code you use with a cms like WordPress works in conjunction with html. a .php file generally contains html and php. So you will still be using html and css, php does not make these obsolete.

Your css should live within an external file and so should any JavaScript. Ensure you are using html5 as that is now the industry standard as too are responsive layouts that adapt to the viewport size so your site will look great on any device. If you are not familiar with these concepts there are plenty of tutorials out there.

 

If you are serious about getting good at web development then I'd highly recommend Treehouse, it's a great place for beginners.

I am currently in a trial of tree house which I'm loving. Have spent most of the evening on it despite the fact I should be marking planning haha.

Thanks

Edited November 24, 201411 yr by andy9l
Merged

Haha I woudnt dream of using comic sans. It's banned in my classroom and banned for the website too!!!We will be looking to aim to website at adults but with child friendly interface as I hope once it's all set up, children, using Wordpress will help update and maintain content.Thanks again for the advice I am currently in a trial of tree house which I'm loving. Have spent most of the evening on it despite the fact I should be marking planning haha.Thanks

Just curious, how many other cms systems did you look into before choosing Wordpress? And why wordpress? Two important questions to realise before embarking on ideas that have no base of fact, how would you know that's the best solution without checking others, you can't just use something because people say so. People with very little knowledge tend to go straight for Wordpress simply because it's the only one they have heard of but there really are far better solutions available.

Just curious, how many other cms systems did you look into before choosing Wordpress? And why wordpress? Two important questions to realise before embarking on ideas that have no base of fact, how would you know that's the best solution without checking others, you can't just use something because people say so. People with very little knowledge tend to go straight for Wordpress simply because it's the only one they have heard of but there really are far better solutions available.

Our current website uses Wordpress which is what the person who designed the site chose for whatever reason. This person is leaving school and therefore I was just going to continue using what staff are familiar with. To be honest I haven't really looking into other cms a systems for this reason.

i can understand that they know Wordpress but you should be aware that Wordpress websites tend to be targeted more often by hackers than most cms systems and despite some of the users on this site using it as their main cms personally I would not use it, I did once and then I realised that is is a poor choice in comparison to avalibility.

 

Unless you are a developer, most choose Wordpress simply because they have heard of it and there are loads of free templates for it, it most certainly not a good option most the time

Yes, especially given that the site will contain details of kids you can't ever be too careful with CMS security. If you hold any sensitive data on the site (public or not) make sure it's as secure as it can be.

http://jekyllrb.com/ could be a good option, it's very secure and fast due to their being no DB. I'm going to be using it on my upcoming blog.

Edited November 25, 201411 yr by rbrtsmith

i can understand that they know Wordpress but you should be aware that Wordpress websites tend to be targeted more often by hackers than most cms systems and despite some of the users on this site using it as their main cms personally I would not use it, I did once and then I realised that is is a poor choice in comparison to avalibility.

 

Unless you are a developer, most choose Wordpress simply because they have heard of it and there are loads of free templates for it, it most certainly not a good option most the time

 

WordPress is often targeted because the vast majority of people who use it don't know how to code. It's just as secure as any other CMS if you know what you are doing. You think the New York Times would use the system if it was so insecure?

 

WP is often a very good choice as a CMS and I've said it already before if you are building something highly complex then you would be better off running with a framework like Zend for PHP or Rails for Ruby etc.

 

WP is far more capable than you give it credit for and I get the feeling you ditched it without learning how to use the platform in full -- i.e not using plugins or pre-made themes. Build everything from scratch. It does have it's faults but you haven't really mentioned any of them. It has also changed a hell of a lot over the past few years. It is also incredibly fast to develop with which means more profit / more competitive prices.

Edited November 25, 201411 yr by rbrtsmith

I did not think listing it's issues would do anyone any good so I did not bother.

 

I will however state now since you asked that most of its faults are due mostly to three things, firstly Wordpress do not have their own developers and therefore the security issues that may appear are not supported in any way, second 3rd party addons are mostly made by hobbiests and would carry their own issues in security, the more plugins you have the more at risk you would be even if Wordpress itself was tested to the fullest, the addons would be leaving a gaping whole in the cms security system. Lastly there is bloat, as its a system where you add addons, the functionality of these addons has to be supported by the main cms, plus there are features built into the cms that most would never use.

 

Without addons Wordpress is pretty rubbish.

 

Just to add

WordPress is often targeted because the vast majority of people who use it don't know how to code.

Is that not the same lame excuses gives by so called 'developers' when they use a wysiwyg because they cannot code? It does not make it right then and that does not make this right either especially if it needs to be secure and actually do the job it needs to do.

 

And yes, I do think the New York times would use something that is insecure, as they do, the reason could be as simple as saying the employed a developer who happened to know Wordpress and nothing else, what does a newspaper know about web security?

Hello and welcome to the forum.

If you want to develop your own theme for WP I'd recomend learning how to create a child theme from an existing theme.

Child-themes works by a principle of adding a new “layer” of files on top of the existing theme. You only code what you want to be overridden in the original theme.

If you need some pages to look different than the rest I will suggest that you read about custom page templates.

I did not think listing it's issues would do anyone any good so I did not bother.

 

I will however state now since you asked that most of its faults are due mostly to three things, firstly Wordpress do not have their own developers and therefore the security issues that may appear are not supported in any way, second 3rd party addons are mostly made by hobbiests and would carry their own issues in security, the more plugins you have the more at risk you would be even if Wordpress itself was tested to the fullest, the addons would be leaving a gaping whole in the cms security system. Lastly there is bloat, as its a system where you add addons, the functionality of these addons has to be supported by the main cms, plus there are features built into the cms that most would never use.

 

Without addons Wordpress is pretty rubbish.

 

Just to add

 

Is that not the same lame excuses gives by so called 'developers' when they use a wysiwyg because they cannot code? It does not make it right then and that does not make this right either especially if it needs to be secure and actually do the job it needs to do.

 

And yes, I do think the New York times would use something that is insecure, as they do, the reason could be as simple as saying the employed a developer who happened to know Wordpress and nothing else, what does a newspaper know about web security?

 

You're kind of insinuating that developers who use WordPress don't know any other CMS system, that's a big and somewhat insulting assumption to make. Wordpress is not rubbish without the addons. It's the addons that make it rubbish, a skilled developer doesn't rely on a particular system or plugins they create their own functionality, or at the very least understand the core principles of the language so they can assess the viability of using a pre-built module.

 

Do you really think a corporation as large as the New York Times would employ a cheap, developer who only knows WP? I highly doubt that. Our devs write custom backends in zend framework, have written node apps and so on -- far beyond mine or your capabilities. However generally for basic websites WordPress is a good choice, which is why we often use it for these kind of projects.

 

You say a fault of WP is that it's open source? Half the web is open source and many of the best tools being written are too open source. Open source does not equal bad. I suggest you actually do some proper research into web security rather than grabbing random info off biased blogs and so forth.

A decent developer will have no problem building a secure site on WP (If you can call any site that has a database totally secure). Plugins make things insecure? Don't use them then. No matter what CMS you use, you shouldn't be reliant on plugins.

 

 

This article covers a lot of the myths associated with WP including security, speed and so on http://vabulous.com/myths-debunked-on-why-large-companies-use-custom-designed-wordpress-sites/

Edited November 25, 201411 yr by rbrtsmith

Only the blogs at the New York Times are running on WP. That's because WP is, at its core, a blogging tool. You can dress it up as much as you like, it is what it is.

WP isn't bad, it just isn't the best tool for every job as some people make it out to be. They tend to jump head first into WP without giving any thought as to what may be a better option.

Only the blogs at the New York Times are running on WP. That's because WP is, at its core, a blogging tool. You can dress it up as much as you like, it is what it is.

 

WP isn't bad, it just isn't the best tool for every job as some people make it out to be. They tend to jump head first into WP without giving any thought as to what may be a better option.

 

I agree that there are other solutions that are probably better, given the right circumstances. You chose the system based on the requirements, be that a cms or javascript framework etc. WordPress was originally a blogging system but it's far outgrown that now. WP is a very viable option to create, what a lot of websites are is brochure style websites. I would not recommend it to develop a system or for Ecommerce. But those who outright say WP is bad are mistaken.

 

I'm just trying to debunk some of these myths that surround the system like the securty thing are just unfounded and not properly researched. The article I linked to explains these in further detail.

 

It seems to be the same story with people are saying JavaScript is terrible, yes it has it's faults but it also has brilliance, the issue being is most of those who dislike it do not properly understand the language and it's a case of a bad workman blaming his tools. Unfortunatley for the js haters it's here to stay and it's use is going to become even more widespread.

 

For those worried about being hacked, Expression Engine, Drupal and so on all use a database and thus are vulnerable to attacks, a static site is far more secure in that regard.

Edited November 25, 201411 yr by rbrtsmith

You're kind of insinuating that developers who use WordPress don't know any other CMS system, that's a big and somewhat insulting assumption to make. Wordpress is not rubbish without the addons. It's the addons that make it rubbish, a skilled developer doesn't rely on a particular system or plugins they create their own functionality, or at the very least understand the core principles of the language so they can assess the viability of using a pre-built module.

 

Do you really think a corporation as large as the New York Times would employ a cheap, developer who only knows WP? I highly doubt that. Our devs write custom backends in zend framework, have written node apps and so on -- far beyond mine or your capabilities. However generally for basic websites WordPress is a good choice, which is why we often use it for these kind of projects.

 

You say a fault of WP is that it's open source? Half the web is open source and many of the best tools being written are too open source. Open source does not equal bad. I suggest you actually do some proper research into web security rather than grabbing random info off biased blogs and so forth.

A decent developer will have no problem building a secure site on WP (If you can call any site that has a database totally secure). Plugins make things insecure? Don't use them then. No matter what CMS you use, you shouldn't be reliant on plugins.

 

 

This article covers a lot of the myths associated with WP including security, speed and so on http://vabulous.com/myths-debunked-on-why-large-companies-use-custom-designed-wordpress-sites/

Actually, I am not talking about developers specifically, developers would take the code and hack core files in order to achieve what they want, but it never improves Wordpress as a cms it's simply a hack for the developer and there is never any guarentee their hacks have not compromised the core files, the good SEO and features of Wordpress are all coming from plugins or hard coded addons, Wordpress as a flat out if the box cms is simply a very basic cms, nothing more than a just above cut website with no interaction for the end user.

 

Yes, I do believe that the New York times would, as do for example the UK government orginisaions they contract external companies to build this stuff for them and then employ a few people to maintain them.

 

I never said anything about Wordpress fault being open source, I said they don't have support or their own developers, they would be better served with a system more like the Apple Store for example, where things are submitted, checked for security and tested and only then placed for public use, as it stands any man and his dog can write a plugin for it no matter how experienced you are at coding.

 

You are right though, a decent developer would not have a problem building a decent site out or Wordpress but there are two faults with this statement, firstly, even a decent developer a miss things or forget things or even not be aware of things that can lead to problems especially when hacking away at core files and second, we are in a thread where the op is not a developer and therefore would be completely unaware of these issues.

 

Again, I see in another of your posts I agree with you that Wordpress has grown far beyond its blog roots but most of those abilities are from plugins, the core files, although they have been made more complex and better, with added extras is still a basic system.

..Wordpress as a flat out if the box cms is simply a very basic cms, nothing more than a just above cut website with no interaction for the end user.

 

And so it should. It would be very anoying to have to remove all sorts of functions that you do not use.

And so it should. It would be very anoying to have to remove all sorts of functions that you do not use.

Yes, precicely but as the system stands unless you hack the hell out of it that's what you get, it's not nessersarily Wordpress itself that is the issue, it's the addons and plugins mostly.

 

A decent developer again, can get around this, they will support you if you have issues, when it comes to plugins you don't always get that, sometimes the plugins are not tested enough, Wordpress falls at the point of needing too many in order to give it decent funtionality.

 

Take a look at expression engine for example. Now I know it's not free but that is besides the point, it comes with a system where you need very little plugins, I fact I have never had to use one, of course there are plugins out there, some supported by EE some not, but you would never need as many, I have integrated stuff within EE but never felt the need to hack the core files, if you need to do that in order to make a system good, then there is something wrong with that system in the first place.

*We've never had to even touch the core files in any of our projects in WP. If you are finding yourself doing this on a regular basis then you are clearly doing somerthing majorly wrong. We've developed highly interactive, mult-lingual websites without any kind of *hacking like you describe. You make out that to get anything beyond ultra basic functionality you have to modify the core files, this is untrue.

 

Most dynmaic functionality is done with JavaScript and Ajax, and you should not be using any plugins on any CMS for JavaScript functionality. -- write it yourself.

 

The point you make about developers forgetting to do security things -- this is a risk on any CMS and has nothing to do with WordPress, and all production code should be thoroughly evaluated and tested to reduce the likelyhood of any breach. Again this is not a fault of the CMS like you had originally claimed.

 

Did you actually read the article I posted because you should and it might help you to stop spreading untrue myths around. WordPress certainly has faults, but so do the other CMS systems. You have to evaulate what the client requirements are and then choose what CMS would be best for the project, in some cases WP might be the best choice, in others something else would be more suitable.

Edited November 25, 201411 yr by rbrtsmith

If you are not adding plugins or hacking the core files (I was speaking generally by the way and not specifically at you) then you are right, there should be no more risk to using it as with other cms systems, aside from the lack of support should the worse happen.

 

In this case, and please remember the op and this thread, I said it was a bad idea because they probebly will use loads of plugins and extras that put it at risk, this means, in this case specifically it's a poor choice.

If you are not adding plugins or hacking the core files (I was speaking generally by the way and not specifically at you) then you are right, there should be no more risk to using it as with other cms systems, aside from the lack of support should the worse happen.

 

In this case, and please remember the op and this thread, I said it was a bad idea because they probebly will use loads of plugins and extras that put it at risk, this means, in this case specifically it's a poor choice.

 

That's a more resonable response and I agree it could be dangerous if he starts throwing plugins at everything. WP isn't that bad if used properly, Honest It's just a highly abused platform, and this abuse has helped to contribute to giving it a bad name.

 

I'd actually recommend the OP to check out Jekyll, there's not much that can go wrong with a jekyll site, The only issue with it is to write posts and so on you need to know markdown or html.

Edited November 25, 201411 yr by rbrtsmith

Wordpress is the most commonly used option but is security an issue for you? Also have you thought about having separate adult and child sections on the site?

Edited December 2, 201411 yr by GetMyWebsiteReviewed