Hi All,

I'm designing a site for a local pub.

Here is the one they have at the moment : http://www.olive-leaf.co.uk/

And attached is my first draught of the new one.

What do you think?

I hope this doesn't upset you, but that is not a good design. In fact, it's lacking in all respects.

 

I'll bullet point my issues.

 

• The Logo is pixellated and ugly.
  
• The colour scheme is bad, as is the strong gradients. Gradients should only be used in a very subtle way. Strong colour gradients look cheap and tacky, as does the lime green colour scheme. You're designing a site for a pub, not for pre-schoolers!
  
• The typography is pretty bad too. It looks pixellated and blurry.
  
• Stretched corners. Dude, that's just not on! Keep your corners rounded properly.
  
• The layout. You've got a lot of wasted space. Think about how you are utilizing your space. Vertical navigation is not ideal because you're using up chunks of valuable horizontal space.
  

 

To be honest, this doesn't appear like you've spent much time on it. Even for a quick mockup it looks rushed and lazy.

 

Have you actually done any research into other pub websites? This should show you what passes as good for that kind of website and what does not.

 

Look at how you're using colour, layout and typography. There are plenty of tutorials out there that would help you improve in these areas.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more positive But I can't beat around the bush, this is not very good design, even for a beginner, because we're now seeing lots of beginners come out with much stronger work than this. You're gonna be, at some stage, competing with those people and every other web designer so you need to think about whether you've got what it takes. It needs to be ditched and started again, and your first step should be research.

 

All good web designers conduct pretty extensive research into their project before they even touch a pixel.

 

Good luck!

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by brightonmike

I hope this doesn't upset you, but that is not a good design. In fact, it's lacking in all respects.

 

I'll bullet point my issues.

 

• The Logo is pixellated and ugly.
  
• The colour scheme is bad, as is the strong gradients. Gradients should only be used in a very subtle way. Strong colour gradients look cheap and tacky, as does the lime green colour scheme. You're designing a site for a pub, not for pre-schoolers!
  
• The typography is pretty bad too. It looks pixellated and blurry.
  
• Stretched corners. Dude, that's just not on! Keep your corners rounded properly.
  
• The layout. You've got a lot of wasted space. Think about how you are utilizing your space. Vertical navigation is not ideal because you're using up chunks of valuable horizontal space.
  

 

To be honest, this doesn't appear like you've spent much time on it. Even for a quick mockup it looks rushed and lazy.

 

Have you actually done any research into other pub websites? This should show you what passes as good for that kind of website and what does not.

 

Look at how you're using colour, layout and typography. There are plenty of tutorials out there that would help you improve in these areas.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more positive But I can't beat around the bush, this is not very good design, even for a beginner, because we're now seeing lots of beginners come out with much stronger work than this. You're gonna be, at some stage, competing with those people and every other web designer so you need to think about whether you've got what it takes. It needs to be ditched and started again, and your first step should be research.

 

All good web designers conduct pretty extensive research into their project before they even touch a pixel.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for your honest opinion. you're right, it only took about 10 min's, i was just playing with concepts etc. Back to the drawing board for me!

Thanks for your honest opinion. you're right, it only took about 10 min's, i was just playing with concepts etc. Back to the drawing board for me!

 

10 Minutes! I haven't even opened Photoshop by then. Gather inspiration first, just look at the name, 'The Olive Leaf' already loads of ideas come to my mind. Browse suitable colour schemes using Kuler or something similar, decide on your layout style, target audience, call to actions and where your content areas will be.

 

This should be a good starting point.

I'm designing a site for a local pub.

[...]

And attached is my first draught of the new one.

Ba-doom TISH!

Original site looks like an improvement over the current design

Had a rethink and come up with the attached. on the finished version there will be a opening times table, but this is just for the feel of it. What do you think? Any ideas?

Whats the rush? Its still poor, no planning has gone into this, just take the guys cash and don't reply to his email or calls. It has the same effect as what your producing at the moment.

 

On your website you claim not to use templates, I think in this case you should consider it...

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by pandadoodle

Whats the rush? Its still poor, no planning has gone into this, just take the guys cash and don't reply to his email or calls. It has the same effect as what your producing at the moment.

 

On your website you claim not to use templates, I think in this case you should consider it...

CAn you tell me what you think is poor about it?

EVERYTHING. The layout lacks any planning or thought for the content, no effort has been made to source new images or spruce it up. The pub industry is in bits at the moment the least you can do is give the guy a fighting chance online.

 

The layout falls apart, the colours are naff, image placement. You need to do some research and plan it out, id be more than happy to create you a PSD for a fee PM me if you want a price list...

i would do it something more like the following - also the pub sign makes a great logo (for the site at least)

 

EVERYTHING. The layout lacks any planning or thought for the content, no effort has been made to source new images or spruce it up. The pub industry is in bits at the moment the least you can do is give the guy a fighting chance online.

 

The layout falls apart, the colours are naff, image placement. You need to do some research and plan it out, id be more than happy to create you a PSD for a fee PM me if you want a price list...

The reason why I haven't sourced new images is because the client hasn't supplied me with any yet, I was just using the images on the original site more or less as placeholder images. I feel quite offended by your remark about just taking the money and not answering calls/emails. I'm doing this site for free. Also If I was just taking the money and running, I wouldn't be looking for feedback from you guys, I'd just put any old thing on-line.

The problem I got is your branding or selling your self as a web designer, regardless if its free or paid your not delivering on that service, neither do I think your current skill level is set to be charging for work or producing anything on the commercial scale its a mockery of the industry.

 

I mean I would not higher a builder to build my house if he had no idea how to mix sand and cement...

 

My comment maybe offensive but as I've been working in this industry for many, many years now you calling your self a "web designer" is offensive to me.

 

EDIT

 

Not having the images is a pile of POO your a designer take a camera with you take the shots your self, why is it always the clients fault?

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by pandadoodle

how did you get a job from an english pub while being from finland...

I'm gonna come over all Louis Walsh here, but I just don't think you have the core, basic skills that it takes to make it in an industry which is getting more cut-throat by the moment.

 

Your use of colour is pretty haphazard if I'm honest. You're not really thinking, or paying any attention to, how different colours work together, and when you should use them.

 

J.P suggested Kuler yet judging by your latest effort, you've not tried it at all.

 

You're not thinking about the Pubs own image and branding, and you're not hooking into it. Davep above has done exactly that, he's used the Pub sign to brilliant effect. The way he has tied the colours in with imagery to match it in the header works really well.

 

Whereas, with your design, you've just typed their name in an ugly font and chucked their sign in the top right, with little regard to how you tie these different elements together, little regard for composition, style.

 

Look also at how Davep has thought about which elements the focus should be on, i.e. the contact details. If I'm searching for local pubs, those are critical elements. In your design, you haven't at all thought about visual weight. Visual Weight is something you really need to get a hold of.

 

So I am sorry but as I and others have said, this just isn't working.

The problem I got is your branding or selling your self as a web designer, regardless if its free or paid your not delivering on that service, neither do I think your current skill level is set to be charging for work or producing anything on the commercial scale its a mockery of the industry.

 

I mean I would not higher a builder to build my house if he had no idea how to mix sand and cement...

 

My comment maybe offensive but as I've been working in this industry for many, many years now you calling your self a "web designer" is offensive to me.

 

EDIT

 

Not having the images is a pile of POO your a designer take a camera with you take the shots your self, why is it always the clients fault?

I'll Agree I'm not at your standard yet (i've seen your profile and I think your very good), I usually don't do the designing - just the coding. My partner in Dharma Designs usually does the design and I code it up. We've all got to start somewhere, which is why I'm doing the work pro-bono. I don't understand why your attacking me, I'm prepared to take constructive critism, but it feels like your input is just slagging me off. Didn't you start off once?

I'll Agree I'm not at your standard yet (i've seen your profile and I think your very good), I usually don't do the designing - just the coding. My partner in Dharma Designs usually does the design and I code it up. We've all got to start somewhere, which is why I'm doing the work pro-bono. I don't understand why your attacking me, I'm prepared to take constructive critism, but it feels like your input is just slagging me off. Didn't you start off once?

 

Yes when tables and frames where the in thing, images where gifs, css was what nightmares where made off and the internet and web design was just taking off OH and graphic and web design where two different roles with fights between each department over CMYK and 256 web safe pallets.

 

Unlike today when you have the wealth of knowledge on the internet, reading and learning simple things is easy.

 

I did not start a company or go producing crap and passing it off as "web design" I actually learnt what the industry was about and todays standards.

 

Lets spend 11+ years in the industry where we go from top earnings, battling bedroom wannabes, industry recovers, people being ripped off, india comes to play, slowly recovering etc If this was the building industry 90% of web companies these days would be on watch dog

 

Jesus

 

About The Team

 

The team at Dharma Designs is very professional and has over 15 years combined experience in website design and working with small businesses and not-for-profit organisations. But we can’t claim this without telling you a little about ourselves first.

 

Paul

 

Paul’s web design journey began in 1999. He was browsing his local computer store when a book called “Teach Yourself HTML” caught his eye. His first website was a lesson in how not to build a website, It used frames, had a star-field background, animated GIF’s, annoying background music and flaming text. It was truly horrendous , but Paul was proud of it.

 

Paul persevered with his site and eventually his code improved. He is still building sites, but, thankfully, the animated GIFs stayed in 1999. Today, Paul is excited by the developments in the web design and web standards with the promotion and use of HTML5 and CSS3 standards and the clean, crisp designs that have been coined “Web 2.0″ design. Whilst Paul likes to push the boundaries of web design, he also is very aware that not everyone has the latest and greatest browser and builds sites that degrade nicely with older browsers.

 

Nathan

 

Nathan is a student of the University of Salford, studying for his BA (Hons) in Design for Digital Media. He has been designing websites since 1998, starting with free site builder applications such as Homestead and Geocities, and since 2001 using HTML standards. He has a great love for web design and has taught himself many aspects of his web design knowledge since discovering HTML standards in 2001, including his knowledge of designing templates for WordPress and in PHP.

 

He has worked directly for Wai Yin Chinese Women Society, a not-for-profit organisation that specialises in catering for the Chinese community in Manchester. Hailing from Manchester himself, he spent five years working for the organisation as an Administrator, as well as taking on the vast majority of their design tasks, including that of Webmaster for their corporate website and the website for one of their partnership projects. He has also created websites for other not-for-profit campaigns and small businesses and across a wide variety of frameworks.

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by pandadoodle

I'm gonna come over all Louis Walsh here, but I just don't think you have the core, basic skills that it takes to make it in an industry which is getting more cut-throat by the moment.

 

Your use of colour is pretty haphazard if I'm honest. You're not really thinking, or paying any attention to, how different colours work together, and when you should use them.

 

J.P suggested Kuler yet judging by your latest effort, you've not tried it at all.

 

You're not thinking about the Pubs own image and branding, and you're not hooking into it. Davep above has done exactly that, he's used the Pub sign to brilliant effect. The way he has tied the colours in with imagery to match it in the header works really well.

 

Whereas, with your design, you've just typed their name in an ugly font and chucked their sign in the top right, with little regard to how you tie these different elements together, little regard for composition, style.

 

Look also at how Davep has thought about which elements the focus should be on, i.e. the contact details. If I'm searching for local pubs, those are critical elements. In your design, you haven't at all thought about visual weight. Visual Weight is something you really need to get a hold of.

 

So I am sorry but as I and others have said, this just isn't working.

 

Thanks for the input. I know I'm not much of a designer, my partner and friend Nathan usually does the design, I just code it up. As I'm new to designing, I'm working for free. I've taken on-board all thats been said, and I'll do some more research. Could anyone recommend any reading materials/web sites that would help me out in th design side of things?

Thanks for the input. I know I'm not much of a designer, my partner and friend Nathan usually does the design, I just code it up. As I'm new to designing, I'm working for free. I've taken on-board all thats been said, and I'll do some more research. Could anyone recommend any reading materials/web sites that would help me out in th design side of things?

 

 

Get some core appreciation of design. Be interested in it as a subject: http://www.designweek.co.uk/

http://css-tricks.com

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/category/inspiration/

http://net.tutsplus.com/

 

And lastly, look all around you! Lots of talented, professional designers. Look at peoples work. Look at how they use colour etc. It's all around you, you just need to take the initiative.

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by brightonmike

i would do it something more like the following - also the pub sign makes a great logo (for the site at least)

 

 

Thanks for that! I'll take inspiration from it. Many thanks!

Get some core appreciation of design. Be interested in it as a subject: http://www.designweek.co.uk/

http://css-tricks.com

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/category/inspiration/

http://net.tutsplus.com/

 

And lastly, look all around you! Lots of talented, professional designers. Look at peoples work. Look at how they use colour etc. It's all around you, you just need to take the initiative.

 

Thats great, thanks for that. I think I'll pass this site back to Nathan and just mock up sites for fictional companys etc and learn the ropes. I appreciate everything thats been said, even if it did get my back up a bit.

Yes when tables and frames where the in thing, images where gifs, css was what nightmares where made off and the internet and web design was just taking off OH and graphic and web design where two different roles with fights between each department over CMYK and 256 web safe pallets.

 

Unlike today when you have the wealth of knowledge on the internet, reading and learning simple things is easy.

 

I did not start a company or go producing crap and passing it off as "web design" I actually learnt what the industry was about and todays standards.

 

Lets spend 11+ years in the industry where we go from top earnings, battling bedroom wannabes, industry recovers, people being ripped off, india comes to play, slowly recovering etc If this was the building industry 90% of web companies these days would be on watch dog

 

Jesus

 

I don't understand why you are taking this personally, but I've taken on-board what you've said and I'm having a re-think about my role in the scheme of things.

Thats great, thanks for that. I think I'll pass this site back to Nathan and just mock up sites for fictional companys etc and learn the ropes. I appreciate everything thats been said, even if it did get my back up a bit.

 

 

Criticism, even if it doesn't immediately appear useful, is often the only way forward. The number of times I've had people almost reel with disgust at my work...but being told by others that what you've done is poo should then empower you to go on and do better. If they hadn't of done that, you'd of stuck with it.

Ba-doom TISH!

 

Some harsh words here but the saying "cruel to be kind" does come to mind

 

Good luck