Hi

 

I have a new client who wants a website because their old developer has fallen off the face of the earth. They cannot get through via emails or telephone. They have paid all their hosting payments. Yet their website was suspended. There was a message on their account saying "Your account has been suspended" which is not good of course. So we have got them up and running again, but it would help if we can get the content from the old website.

 

The hosting provider is http://www.pipeten.com/ and they state that only the web developer can get the content as they owned the reseller account. We have explained no one can contact them. We also state that arguably the client owns the site content not the web developer so content should be provided to the client.

 

Does anyone know if pip10 are obliged to provide this content considering the client and not the developer would own the content and copyright?

 

Thanks

Hmm.. a tricky one.

 

My personal thoughts are that, whilst the website files would be copyrighted to the web. developer, the client owns (and so has the final say) on the files that they host.

 

As such, PipeTen *should* provide the client with the files. There's no legal reason why they aren't allowed to.

If not, you might find The Internet Archive helpful - www.archive.org

If they are the clients files then pipe 10 MUST allow them access - Like Tristan said they have no legal right not to.

Yes - but they also have the legal obligation of restricting access to their accounts - and if the web developer doesn't want the owner to have access - he is legally allowed to do this also.

That is tricky but I think the contract was with the web developer so Pipeten are correct. Maybe if the site owner can prove they own the domain name and ask for thie site to be moved to a diffrent account on the same host?

Yes - but they also have the legal obligation of restricting access to their accounts - and if the web developer doesn't want the owner to have access - he is legally allowed to do this also.

 

I would argue this point.... firstly we dont know why the web developer wants to restirct access, he has not given the client any reason. Their site was suspended one day with no notice, but they have paid all their money and done nothing wrong. So personally I do not think the web developer has the right at all (although I am not a legal expert).

 

Also, the web developers own website has been suspended with the same message. I forgot to mention that. We do not know if the hosting company, Pipe10, has suspended all his accounts (perhaps he has not paid them) or whether he has suspended his own and the clients website.

 

Either way, the client has paid up and not done anything wrong, so personally I think they should be able to get their content from pipe10 in the web developers absence.

 

I also think Pipe10 are being completely unhelpful and are just sticking by policy rather than helping clients. If the web developer has not paid them then we are happy to pay them so we can get the content, but they wont even offer this as solution. They offer no help whatsoever.

unfortunately you can argue this till the cows come home. I am sure you wouldn't be happy if I rang up your hosting company asking them to give me the files off your site as it is really mine and they just freely gave me the details to be able to do so. I am not the name on the contract with them, you are so they by law cannot give me anything from your site as I am not the person they have a contract with. So what the hosting company is doing is the right thing as you need to prove that it is their site. They offer no help simply sticking by their client and their contract with their client (be it suspended or not)

 

If the hosting account isn't in your clients name and is in the web developers name then you will have to prove that the content on this site is in fact you clients and the only way to do this would be for the web developer to say so. If your client was paying the web developer then the web developer was paying the hosting from this money, so technically your client was being hosted through the web developer on his hosting agreement that he paid for, so your qualm is with the web developer who you will have to find and get the money back/files from.

 

So yes it is frustrating but unfortunately they are doing what is right as without proof via signed legal contract that states everything on that site is your clients or without the relevant information there is nothing you can do about it. As to the hosting company you could simply be someone trying to hijack someone else's site.

 

 

Your options are as follows really:

If your client has a contract that states they are the legal owner then they should consult a lawyer.

Try and track down the web developer to turn over the files to you/client

Start the site over

I am sure you wouldn't be happy if I rang up your hosting company asking them to give me the files off your site as it is really mine and they just freely gave me the details to be able to do so.

 

I think your missing the point, your statements assume the web developer is still around and contactable... I am still here and alive and well so obviously the hosting company wont be allowing anyone access to my server which is of course correct. A client is able to call me up for permission to access their account or for me to send them the content. But if god forbid everyone in my company died I think the hosting company should try to help the clients who I had websites with by allowing them access to their content (if the account was paid up which we are offering to do). Currently it is as if the web developer has closed business and/or died so we cannot continue a discussion with the hosting company based on "contacting the web developer". For all intent and purposes the web developer is no longer a factor, not part of the chain, does not exist. The contract is with a ghost.

 

We are happy to give proof to the web hosting provider but they are not offering us that option. They are not offering any options apart from "contact the web developer" even though we have explained they do not exist anymore. But no one seems to understand that they have vanished.

No it doesn't my statment assumes that your client is not the legal owner of the hosting contract with this hosting company you keep contacting. I could just as easily say I have been trying to contact you and that I have a signed bit of paper that states the domain is mine and that you were just acting as go between and now you won't return my calls. The hosting company has a legal responsibility not to give me information on their clients and that is what it is doing with you.

 

Get your client to contact a lawyer as that is the best bet to see where they stand legally in regards to this. As the hosting company has no legal or moral obligation to your client as to them your client is not a client, just a person who claims ownership of a site that is on their servers and under someone else's name. They have certain protocols they have to follow and they have to protect their clients and cannot give information like away just through a phone call as you could be anyone and the contract could be faked.

 

So like I said you can come on here and argue that it is not fair but we don't know the legal standpoint of your client only a lawyer would, who can read through the contract and see if they can get this data back. But this will be costly and might end with them still having nothing to show as the person who is responsible is the web developer who has vanished and not the hosting company.

 

 

Sorry that I can't bring you roses.

I am just after some advice on what to do, so it seems contacting a lawyer to take this up with Pipe10 then is so far the only option. I just wanted to make it clear that "contacting the web developer" is not an option as we have been trying for months, they have dissapeared. Everyone keeps telling us we have to "contact the web developer" no matter how many times we tell them thats not an option as we have tried and failed! Pipe10 are no longer answering my emails.

If not, you might find The Internet Archive helpful - www.archive.org

that has been dead since 2006 TBH

Pipe10 have replied. But it seems they are adamant not to give the content even though they admit the web developer is uncontactable (yet continue to ask me to contact them ). Their support reply clearly indiciates they do not care about the end client and would rather support the client who is out of business. I would be very weary about using www.pipeten.com as they do not seem to want to help on this matter at all.

 

So I think legal advice in a situation like this is the only way to do it.

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

The www.archive.org website seemed excellent at first. It did have the homepage and contact us page of the website, but no other page unfortunately.

Pipe10 have replied. But it seems they are adamant not to give the content even though they admit the web developer is uncontactable (yet continue to ask me to contact them ). Their support reply clearly indiciates they do not care about the end client and would rather support the client who is out of business. I would be very weary about using www.pipeten.com as they do not seem to want to help on this matter at all.

 

So I think legal advice in a situation like this is the only way to do it.

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

I agree with pipeten's decision - I'd be unhappy if anyone could access files from any of my hosting account, whether or not they were suspended or not.

 

Your 'rath' should be directed at your web designer - not the hosting company.

But the web designer is no longer around. So I cannot take my wrath out on them. God forbid, they may have even died. If that is the case they cant be unhappy either. People seem to assume the web developer is in business still, or at least knows or cares whats going on. But the developer has abandoned the clients and their business after taking payment, with no notice. We dont know whats happened to them. You cannot think its Ok for a developer to take a clients money then cut off the service and dissappear. Or at least for no one to help the client if this happens.

I'm sorry but the way I see this it is your fault for not specifying that you wanted the source files delivered in your original contract. Sure you may not have been to know that this was going to happen but you live and learn. Some designers are happy to give their source files, others not, it all depends. Even if you were able to contact the orig designer they would have no obligation to deliver your files unless you had this specified in a contract. If you do have a contract then you're in a strong legal position should you be able to track the individual down. The host has done nothing wrong given the circumstances.

What I want to know is why doesn't the client have copies/backups of his own content? If the content belongs to him he should have copies.