Hi peeps

I have started with a client to initially create a logo and a website. All
conversations have been taking place by e-mail

 

I made 6 initial concept ideas and whittled them down to 3. In the end we agreed
on 1 in particular which was the one to be chosen. I agree I would send her a
copy of the logo in PDF format as she required it to order mail suppliers,
carders, letter heads, etc.

Unfortunately due to personal circumstances I had to cease on further design
work and the website to create for her. So I sent an email informed her I will
not be able to take on the work for the design and the balance of £25 will need
to be paid for the logo which I created.

I didn’t receive a reply even though we have been conversing on a daily
basis about the work, and after 3 weeks later still no reply. I have noticed
that she is has now put up the logo on her website www.brightlegal.co.uk. I
have yet to receive payment. Since I noticed the logo on the website today I haven’t
yet contacted her about the payment so before that I would like to get advise
how I should proceed.

 

All help with me much appreciated

Thanks

 

You should always have a contract to protect you stipulating what happens and when covering all eventualities, checking out that link its a solicitor you are dealing with so she must be pretty sure she is in the right but your only option now is to request she takes it down because you have not handed over the rights or a license to use it or contact the web host, ask them the same or the normal course of action is to take it to small claims but since she is a solicitor you dont stand much chance without your own solicitor.

 

consider it a life lesson

Edited April 16, 201412 yr by Fuzzy Logic

_If_ you can prove the content is yours and you feel all avenues or discussion/neegociation have been exhausted, then you could make a DMCA request to her web host which will (within 24 hours) cause the content to go offline.

 

The host will then contact the other party and either the content will remain offline or they will counter claim your DMCA request as is invalid and it will appear back online.

 

After this you could then consider seeking resolution via the courts or be satisfied your work isn't being used for free (with attribution or compensation).

Edited April 16, 201412 yr by PipeTenHostingCarl

A DMCA would work only if the solicitor or nizzex is in the U.S as it does not apply to UK or EU Citizens, never has as it was the brainchild of Obama

Edited April 16, 201412 yr by Fuzzy Logic

This blows! The exact same thing happened to me, I was under a contract and once the contract expired I continue to work for the company, the manager told me not to worry the president will extend my contract...and then It wasn't! And They ended up using my logo which they slapped on top of their building and it's in a highly visible area, dense and with a lot of traffic. Unfortunately I never had the guts to sue them because I knew they had a lot of overpaid lawyers and the boss had lots of influent peeps in his pocket, including government!

A DMCA would work only if the solicitor or nizzex is in the U.S as it does not apply to UK or EU Citizens, never has as it was the brainchild of Obama

 

The European Commerce Directive is similar but implemented slightly differently, if you can demonstrate illegality then the host has a limited amount of time to remove or respond before losing its limited liability protection (and of course fatuous claims are themselves illegal). We generally use the familiar term DMCA.

Edited April 16, 201412 yr by PipeTenHostingCarl

This blows! The exact same thing happened to me, I was under a contract and once the contract expired I continue to work for the company, the manager told me not to worry the president will extend my contract...and then It wasn't! And They ended up using my logo which they slapped on top of their building and it's in a highly visible area, dense and with a lot of traffic. Unfortunately I never had the guts to sue them because I knew they had a lot of overpaid lawyers and the boss had lots of influent peeps in his pocket, including government!

Bigger businesses often rely on their shear size to intimidate suppliers and contractors. I have found that a simple solicitors letter will spark a decent reaction, (Have your solicitor include a copy of the original invoice and a new amended invoice showing legal cost's applied), as they also rely on their reputation and being taken to court, (a possible course of action that could follow but you have not directly threatened to take yet), is not good for their business. Other potential suppliers and contractors will add a percentage for taking a risk and doing business with them, if they will do business with them at all!

 

If you have the proof needed of the design origins and ownership of the original material, plus the original contract which expired while performing the work. You could even try a long shot and put a nice photo on your social pages of your design work declaring it as your design for which you are yet to be paid. This will I assure you get some legal minds jumping so be VERY SURE you can prove everything first.

Bigger businesses often rely on their shear size to intimidate suppliers and contractors. I have found that a simple solicitors letter will spark a decent reaction, (Have your solicitor include a copy of the original invoice and a new amended invoice showing legal cost's applied), as they also rely on their reputation and being taken to court, (a possible course of action that could follow but you have not directly threatened to take yet), is not good for their business. Other potential suppliers and contractors will add a percentage for taking a risk and doing business with them, if they will do business with them at all!

 

If you have the proof needed of the design origins and ownership of the original material, plus the original contract which expired while performing the work. You could even try a long shot and put a nice photo on your social pages of your design work declaring it as your design for which you are yet to be paid. This will I assure you get some legal minds jumping so be VERY SURE you can prove everything first.

Yeah but the thing is that company sleeps with all the execs from the biggest corporations so it could be a costly battle. And, I should have stopped working the day the contract expired. Anyways, this happened some 16 years ago.

but thanks for the advices, I will have to make sure this doesn't happen in my second pass in the web business.

I make a point never to give any files unless payment is made. I even use a project manager that will send the file for me once they have paid. I tell the client its a feature for them.

 

Also always get a down payment. That way if they do ditch out. You got something. With larger projects I also require milestone payments.

 

If a client doesn't like my way of getting payment, then they get fired. I dont have the time to deal with that nonsense.

 

I had a client that went dark but I still got out with 75% of my total cost instead of nothing. Just have to protect yourself.

Edited April 17, 201412 yr by cibgraphics

I hate to laugh but damn the irony of the client being a legal company who is taking the proverbial is priceless - and what makes it funnier is they have the balls to be called 'Bright' legal, you couldn't make this up.

 

On a business note, hell they owe you, they know they owe you and thus should cough, be it £5 or £50k it makes no difference, and they cannot claim they are unhappy with the work as they are using it already.

Edited April 17, 201412 yr by BrowserBugs

The thing is as well the bill is only £25. Its not like a legal company cant afford to pay up.

Well she replied today to my kind request to pay up, and guess what. She says no and now shes claiming he paid another company to create the logo and changed the pink font ever so slightly. It really pisses me off!

 

I have sent a DMCA request to the hosting provider today and see how this goes.

I hate to laugh but damn the irony of the client being a legal company who is taking the proverbial is priceless - and what makes it funnier is they have the balls to be called 'Bright' legal, you couldn't make this up.

 

On a business note, hell they owe you, they know they owe you and thus should cough, be it £5 or £50k it makes no difference, and they cannot claim they are unhappy with the work as they are using it already.

Perhaps you should make a little website with your original artwork vs. a photograph of the `stolen` materials, asking visitors if the companies actions were untoward or not? (don't say there were yourself, invite others opinion without giving one).... Or forget about it as £ 25 isn't worth the time.

Advice for the future http://www.sitepoint.com/bulletproof-web-design-contract/

Advice for the future http://www.sitepoint.com/bulletproof-web-design-contract/

Thanks for the link!

Just to add, almost forgot,

 

This is the law http://www.out-law.com/page-334 (clearer explanation of)

Just to add, almost forgot,

 

This is the law http://www.out-law.com/page-334 (clearer explanation of)

 

This paragraph is the first of several that means you do own the copyright in law and thus can demand full payment -

Europe has no registration process for copyright works. Once the work is

created, copyright exists. Copyright prevents the reproduction of the

copyright work in any material form, the making of any adaptation of the

work, the making of a translation of the work or the publishing of the

work without the consent of the copyright owner.

 

Notice how it states "Copyright prevents the reproduction of copyright work in any material form, the making of any adaptation of the work ..."

This is after stating that as long as you created the work in Europe you do own the Copyright. "Once the work is created, copyright exists."

 

It is time to send you friendly legal company a nice message stating they already know about Copyright infringement. Tell them pay the £25 in full within 7 day's or they will become liable to your legal cost's. Point out that as solicitors in the UK they have to comply with UK and European law, and they answer to the Solicitors Ombudsmen.

 

So do a little reading, copy a few paragraphs and print them out, then go to see your local CAB unit. They will right the formal letter for you to send, their services are free. Then send the letter and await your check.

 

 

EDIT Forgot to paste in the link for SRA = the Solicitors Ombudsmen. So now I have done it twice.

Edited April 17, 201412 yr by Weedy101

 

This paragraph is the first of several that means you do own the copyright in law and thus can demand full payment -

 

 

Notice how it states "Copyright prevents the reproduction of copyright work in any material form, the making of any adaptation of the work ..."

This is after stating that as long as you created the work in Europe you do own the Copyright. "Once the work is created, copyright exists."

 

It is time to send you friendly legal company a nice message stating they already know about Copyright infringement. Tell them pay the £25 in full within 7 day's or they will become liable to your legal cost's. Point out that as solicitors in the UK they have to comply with UK and European law, and they answer to the Solicitors Ombudsmen.

 

So do a little reading, copy a few paragraphs and print them out, then go to see your local CAB unit. They will right the formal letter for you to send, their services are free. Then send the letter and await your check.

 

 

EDIT Forgot to paste in the link for SRA = the Solicitors Ombudsmen. So now I have done it twice.

I feel that even though what you have said is correct you have to remember that the op never stated they had a contract with this company, so proving the existence of an agreement, how much it was for, the details or whether payment and therefore ownership of licence has been transferred ( which will most definitely be part of the argument, whether it was licenced or transferred) are the main issues.

 

I don't think the issues will be around the rights of use as this was never submitted to the web as a licenced piece of graphics it was passed over to a private company for their use and therefore they might argue that this has been paid for and it will be up to the op to prove any different.

 

I hope the op has kept some decent records, including dates and times of transfers, bank statements and other important data.. This is the type of issue that assues when there is no contract - presuming there is none - I dont think copyright is the main argument as there would be no denying that it was created by the op, presuming of course he has original files.. It could be a simple case of 'we have it in our possession, why would we have a finished product in our possession if we have not paid for it'

I feel that even though what you have said is correct you have to remember that the op never stated they had a contract with this company, so proving the existence of an agreement, how much it was for, the details or whether payment and therefore ownership of licence has been transferred ( which will most definitely be part of the argument, whether it was licenced or transferred) are the main issues.

 

I don't think the issues will be around the rights of use as this was never submitted to the web as a licenced piece of graphics it was passed over to a private company for their use and therefore they might argue that this has been paid for and it will be up to the op to prove any different.

 

I hope the op has kept some decent records, including dates and times of transfers, bank statements and other important data.. This is the type of issue that assues when there is no contract - presuming there is none - I dont think copyright is the main argument as there would be no denying that it was created by the op, presuming of course he has original files.. It could be a simple case of 'we have it in our possession, why would we have a finished product in our possession if we have not paid for it'

Unfortunately this is only too true, if things went as far as going to court you would definitely be at the mercy of the judge/magistrate being sympathetic. Another very useful piece of evidence to make sure you keep is all e-mails on the subject, and not in printed form, keep them on the server so the headers can be verified!

 

But yes, no contract is always a bad thing. Even a bullet-ed list with both parties initials and dates can make a difference, but no initials or signatures is always going to make things much harder. Hopefully not impossible though - but for £25; A free letter from the local CAB office could just be enough to make the debtors take note. If it had no effect at least the op would have tried and not just rolled over at the first hurdle.