Though I've always be a web designer, I'm proposed to work with a designer as a web developer and asked how much I charge for it.

 

Could someone help with to answer this question with some advice or useful articles ?

Well it depends on how far you want to go in the roll as a webdevolper.

 

No´one needs a webdevolper who only knows html and css or jquery but they want those people who can create application scripts.

 

In this case you might be going to PHP/MySQL, ASP, Javascript.

 

I have saw monthly income for around 2k per month some are even higher.

charge what you need to live and what suits your skill level if you want £2500 for a simple form your way off

The term 'Web Developer' seems to be such a grey area these days.

 

There's a lot of cross skill mixing - for instance, web designers should know XHTML & CSS, or at least the basics.

Does this make them Web Developers?

Web Developers should know how to program, use databases - the more technical stuff.

Does this make them Programmers?

 

Or is the term 'Web Developer' all encompassing, in that it includes any/all skill sets?

 

If a 'Web Developer' can do graphics, does this make them 'Web Designers' too?

 

Certainly the job boards and recruitment agencies don't seem to think so - they look for an absurdly broad skill set in many cases.

 

I'm finding there's no such thing as a 'Front end' Web developer any more, so I'm having to turn my hand to programming too.

 

Anyway, just wing it - between £25 and £40 an hour.

Edited July 7, 201115 yr by bb_matt

I think its just about accepted for a front end developer (server side technologies) to be paid £25+

If your multi skilled then i would be thinking upwards of that.

Guess it depends on how well you rate your skills and what you would be willing to work for or how much you need to survive

I don't think you can justifiably charge a penny until you can actually do it to a semi-proficient level and have the portfolio to back it up.

That's a given really. No sane person would hire someone without them first proving they can do the job.

That's a given really. No sane person would hire someone without them first proving they can do the job.

 

Indeed, but there's a LOT of mad people out there, doing our profession a great injustice, not to mention coders from India who'll code for peanuts, because it's a LOT of money for them. Some of the freelance job 'bidding' sites are downright depressing, 20 hour jobs that'll get you one hours fee - crazy.

Edited July 7, 201115 yr by bb_matt

Not to mention those monstrous psd to html converters that build table templates...

Like its not difficult enough to compete

I think I'll ask £25 then. It's actually a graphic designer who would provide PSD web mockups and I'll make live websites from it (and he delivers the result to the client). Should I charge him in a way different from how I charge my clients ?

 

Finally, is it a good idea to add "open to negociation" after I present my rates to him (if I'm really interested in working with him) ?

Finally, is it a good idea to add "open to negociation" after I present my rates to him (if I'm really interested in working with him) ?

no lol

@bb_matt : you suggested £25/h as a minimum.

 

If I work 18 billables days a month, 8 hours a day at £25/h, I'll earn 18 * 8 * 25 = £ 3600 monthly. Minus 20% of tax = £ 2880.

 

As my monthly life expenses are about £1000, I will get almost £2000 of pure benefit each month !! Isn't this amount a bit exagerated ?

@bb_matt : you suggested £25/h as a minimum.

 

If I work 18 billables days a month, 8 hours a day at £25/h, I'll earn 18 * 8 * 25 = £ 3600 monthly. Minus 20% of tax = £ 2880.

 

As my monthly life expenses are about £1000, I will get almost £2000 of pure benefit each month !! Isn't this amount a bit exagerated ?

 

It's the standard lowest rate that design agencies pay freelancers per hour.

 

But, take this with a (rather large) pinch of salt - it's entirely project dependent.

 

There's always a budget on projects (or there should be), so you need to take your chances with that.

It's swings and roundabouts.

 

If a client tells you they have £1000 for a medium sized website build (say, 5 basic templates) and you reckon you'll need 60 hours to complete the job... your £25 an hour would now reduce to £16.

 

It's all about estimating your time vs. budget.

 

It's also down to experience - you can't expect the client to pay you for learning how to do something, so if you take on a job, lets say, a Wordpress site, where you know you have to figure it out first, you have to adjust your time estimates to suit.

 

Freelancing is calculated risk - you'll win big on some jobs, lose on others, break even on the rest.

At some point, you'll meet the client from hell - and realise just how tough you have to be

 

EDIT: I should also note, the tricky situation of maintenance.

*always* specify maintenance costs and more importantly, exactly when your going to sign off a project and start charging those additional costs.

 

The most tricky part of charging for web services, whether your a company or a freelancer, is putting a stake in the ground to say "the job is done"

Nail those bloody goal posts into the playing field, because some clients just want to keep on moving them!

 

This also means you really need to also nail down what the agreed deliverables are and get a concrete agreement on that. Sometimes it's like trying to nail jelly down as many clients don't really have a clue what they really want.

Edited July 8, 201115 yr by bb_matt

If you think your brining in £3600 each month, month after month you really need a reality check

If you think your brining in £3600 each month, month after month you really need a reality check

 

Oh yeah, and then some!

 

I freelanced for a year, I ended up making the same as a permanent job, but worked twice as hard and had the added stress of chasing up money. Some clients were brilliant, others were... well, use your imagination.

 

I now work permanent job and do odd freelance jobs on the side, works for me.

On the subject of freelancing ...

 

Probably the best situation you can find yourself in, assuming you don't want to start a company and assuming you have the contacts, is to freelance for webdev/design agencies.

 

The most successful freelancers I've met do this.

It's a difficult place to get yourself, but if you can pull it off, your sitting pretty.

 

It means you don't have to deal with the tricky business of client negotiations, have a much more fixed budget to work within and also, work with people who understand the industry.

bb_matt thanks a lot for your useful replies ! I've got one further comment though, you said :

 

« If a client tells you they have £1000 for a medium sized website build (say, 5 basic templates) and you reckon you'll need 60 hours to complete the job... your £25 an hour would now reduce to £16. »

 

Yet I learnt that in such situation I should reduce the service (less templates, less revisions, no this, no that) or refuse the job. I've been told 6 thousand times to never crop my hourly rate !

 

@pandadoodle : if I follow you, I should charge a lot because I probably won't work all my billable hours in the month. Well that makes sense though I never heard that argument before. Unless I misunderstood you.

 

I don't want to argue, I just need to be sure I fully understand the logic of this business !

Is this your first time freelancing, or have you been freelancing for years?

 

Yes, you can reduce what your going to offer the client if they don't have the budget for it - that's often the case.

What I was trying to get across, is that your hourly rate is a guide. Yes, you should try to stick to it as closely as possible, but also remember, when you quote time, it's always an estimate.

You could easily lose a decent prospective client because you wont negotiate on cost or deliverables - a client that could offer more work in future. Good client relationships are the very heart of good freelancing, as your existing customers can often make up the bulk of your earnings.

You can seriously underestimate your hours - if you do, then you just have to try to negotiate with the client for more money.

Some clients will try to run rings around you - and some are *very* good at this.

 

Please excuse me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here, but Freelancing can be *very* hard to get going with.

I would put all thought of what your going to make in a month to one side until your damn certain you've got your books full of work.

 

Aside from the work itself, the two most difficult aspects of freelancing are:

1. Chasing up new work

2. Getting paid

 

Some of the rotten clients I had, I ended up spending all day at their offices until the coughed up the money. Not pleasant. Others just kept promising payment which never materialised.

Edited July 9, 201115 yr by bb_matt

No, I mean you will not come close to earning £3600 a month for years even more so when your first starting. You go months on end earning nothing at all its reality and you need to understand that now.

 

Few years ago I went month after month earning 5-7k without any-problem then business started to hold back on spending and bang work dried up and id be lucky to see 1,000! Thats why I took a break but also my wife was pregnant and I opted to look after my little girl full time.

 

The rewards are huge with freelancing but so are the pitfalls! The problem is people get stuck in the habit of thinking its easy and never worry about getting work in for the following week and bang, its time to eat or pay a bill then your on the slipperily slope, or you find your self stacking shelfs (nothing wrong with that if it means you put food on the table) but the freelance glory life soon begins to eat away at you.

 

Id seriously advice you to get some savings behind you, make contacts now, get an understanding of tax, financial planning and so on now before you even start.

 

As for hourly rate there is nothing wrong with being fair to the client.

 

I have the following

 

Hourly base rate (if I get hired at an hourly rate this is what I work at, you need to charge fair to your level but still earn money, enough for savings and profit)

 

Daily Rate

 

Fixed Price jobs. My hourly rate is of no concern to me here, experience tells me this is what I can do, this how much is "fair to the client" as long as your educated enough to cut the crap out in the first two meetings it can be an easy ride. I'm not going to turn away £1000.00 unless the job isnt worth it! But remember when your first starting £1000.00 is allot of money to say no to when you have to pay the bills, rent and food.

Edited July 9, 201115 yr by pandadoodle

That's a given really. No sane person would hire someone without them first proving they can do the job.

 

I worked briefly for a company where the WEB-marketing executive didn't use twitter or know what a blog was! They had had the job 7 months and passed their trail period when I got there. I left after 3 weeks.

 

To boot, the companies software product was being written in one language then converted into another before being sold to the public. It was a crazy place!

Well there profits will be lower than they could be or maybe non-existent. I worked for a couple of years in a computer repair workshop and the boss at the time would hire in work experience people non stop cus he didn't have to pay them, then get rid of them after the 6 week trial. It meant that next to no work was done and an unprofessional appearance. Its up to the employee to protect themselves against potential bad employers too as its your as on line when you find out the boss is a tax cheat and you gotta pay back everything stolen

Well I intend to live in a country with a much lower economy in the next future, but still having a US/Europe client base. So I hope I'll have lower needs and pressure than what you describe !

 

(that won't shield me from the hell clients though :/)

Edited July 11, 201115 yr by zibizibi

No matter where you are in the world if your freelancing you will have pressure.

I would never hire a freelancer who didn't live within driving distance, personally. And definitely nobody abroad.

I would never hire a freelancer who didn't live within driving distance, personally. And definitely nobody abroad.

 

But what's driving distance? my brother drives all around the country for his work and is even sometimes told to drive outside of the UK.

2-3 hours. I just find the idea of dealing with someone purely over the internet incredibly bad for business and unprofessional. When I freelanced, I met all my clients. It made the whole process a million times easier, faster, better and more manageable - for both sides. Emails and phonecalls just create complications and I think you end up wasting a lot of time doing it.

First few years I picked up more work from the states than I did in the UK. In fact pound for pound money wise I think I even got more money for the work I was doing also.

 

Working over phones, emails and conference calls etc at a distance is not a bad thing providing you have the procedures in place to deal with it

is it not just as easy to set up a conference call? Set a time and date then talk out anything you like.