I've been a web designer/developer for over 6 years now and all the time I get requests asking for me to build websites for free because they "don't have much money". Others often say that if I design and build them a website (for free) they will kindly let me add a link to my website at the bottom of their site which will get me “good exposure”, are they mad or do they think I am?

 

This sort of thing only seems to happen to designers and photographers. Can you imagine the response if I asked a plumber to come to my house and install a new boiler and central heating system? Then tell him I can’t afford to pay him but if he does it for free I’ll allow him to park his van outside my house with his logo and contact details on and as I live on a busy road it will be great exposure? I’d probably need medical attention if I did.

 

Even small businesses, which happily pay the going rate on their rent, shop fittings, signage and stock are incredibly reluctant to pay for a website, they seem to think I can knock up a bespoke site with a custom CMS in about 2 hours. Others claim their son or daughter could do a website for them in no time as “they have a Facebook page”.

Many of us have ranted about this before and each time we hit the nail on the head like you just have, it's ridiculous, I know, but just turn them down, they'll learn eventually.

My opinion on this is there are loads of reasons as to why, here are a few off the top of my head:

 

• free templates
  
• template sites offering sites for $35
  
• spec work
  
• the misconception that all freelancers are 15 and work in their bedrooms
  
• that if they don't ask they will never know
  
• general lack of knowledge of the industry
  
• their neighbours son who is 5 can use frontpage so and create a site so its not that hard
  
• WYSIWYG editors
  
• they see the silly bidding war sites where people will do a 100 page e-commerce site for $3
  
• they honestly think that publicity on their site will make a huge difference
  
• they think by offering a link they are doing us a favour
  

Explain to them that as every other profession you need to make enough money to pay your bills and that a website isn't made in four hours.

 

With all kinds of software "that makes it easy to produce a website" (Photoshop's Export to Web function and other WYSIWYG makes people think it's an easy job anyone can do. )

We have all been there with this one - so many clients want something for nothing with web design. The problem is that more and more total amateurs, with no coding skills at all are building websites with the host of wysiwyg editors out there now.

 

So many people know someone who can build them a website in an hour!! Sons, daughters, friends of friends etc....

 

Rant all you like; but i will never change. Our profession is seriously undervalued mate.

 

I was asked to build a site with a very complex back end for a friend of a friend; they needed users to be able to register and then download a variety of CMS loaded templates and pdf documents. When I quoted them for the job (and gave them a 30% discount for being a friend of a friend) and the guy just started laughing and said how expensive that was for such a simple site...

 

He said his nephew could build it for free and he was only letting me build it to 'help me out!' haha - he came crawling back about 2 months later and I told him where to go it was a nice feeling haha

Websites are a non-tangible product. Also, in some cases, clients never meet their web designer face to face, and in some cases, never even share a telephone conversation with them. That makes them value their website alot less, as it seems less of a solid commitment.

 

terydinho, what cheek your mate has! help you out!?!?? CHeeky ****e!

 

Pff I'd like to see his "nephew" build what you've just described.

He said his nephew could build it for free and he was only letting me build it to 'help me out!' haha - he came crawling back about 2 months later and I told him where to go it was a nice feeling haha

 

Revenge sweet revenge!

 

 

 

If "potential clients" doesn't understand the value of developing a site - drop'em like it's hot. They aren't potential customers at all. Focus your skills on people that appreciate it. It's simple math.

I think one problem is that there is allot of very young people in the industry - which doesn't have much experience in doing business and will therefore be run over from clients that seizes the opportunity.

I've just remembered about this which I read years ago. It's called if Architects had to work like web designers.

 

Dear Mr. Architect:

 

Please design and build me a house. I am not quite sure of what I need, so you should use your discretion. My house should have somewhere between two and forty-five bedrooms. Just make sure the plans are such that the bedrooms can be easily added or deleted. When you bring the blueprints to me, I will make the final decision of what I want. Also, bring me the cost breakdown for each configuration so that I can arbitrarily pick one.

 

Keep in mind that the house I ultimately choose must cost less than the one I am currently living in. Make sure, however, that you correct all the deficiencies that exist in my current house (the floor of my kitchen vibrates when I walk across it, and the walls don't have nearly enough insulation in them).

 

As you design, also keep in mind that I want to keep yearly maintenance costs as low as possible. This should mean the incorporation of extra-cost features like aluminum, vinyl, or composite siding. (If you choose not to specify aluminum, be prepared to explain your decision in detail.)

 

Please take care that modern design practices and the latest materials are used in construction of the house, as I want it to be a showplace for the most up-to-date ideas and methods. Be alerted, however, that kitchen should be designed to accommodate, among other things, my 1952 Gibson refrigerator.

 

To insure that you are building the correct house for our entire family, make certain that you contact each of our children, and also our in-laws. My mother-in-law will have very strong feelings about how the house should be designed, since she visits us at least once a year.

 

Make sure that you weigh all of these options carefully and come to the right decision. I, however, retain the right to overrule any choices that you make.

 

Please don't bother me with small details right now. Your job is to develop the overall plans for the house: Get the big picture. At this time, for example, it is not appropriate to be choosing the color of the carpet. However, keep in mind that my wife likes blue.

 

Also, do not worry at this time about acquiring the resources to build the house itself. Your first priority is to develop detailed plans and specifications. Once I approve these plans, however, I would expect the house to be under roof within 48 hours.

 

While you are designing this house specifically for me, keep in mind that sooner or later I will have to sell it to someone else. It therefore should have appeal to a wide variety of potential buyers.

 

Please make sure before you finalize the plans that there is a consensus of the population in my area that they like the features this house has. I advise you to run up and look at my neighbor's house that he constructed last year. We like it a great deal. It has many features that we would also like in our new home, particularly the 75-foot swimming pool. With careful engineering, I believe that you can design this into our new house without impacting the final cost.

 

Please prepare a complete set of blueprints. It is not necessary at this time to do the real design, since they will be used only for construction bids. Be advised, however, that you will be held accountable for any increase of construction costs as a result of later design changes.

 

You must be thrilled to be working on as an interesting project as this! To be able to use the latest techniques and materials and to be given such freedom in your designs is something that can't happen very often.

 

Contact me as soon as possible with your complete ideas and plans.

 

PS: My wife has just told me that she disagrees with many of the instructions I've given you in this letter. As architect, it is your responsibility to resolve these differences. I have tried in the past and have been unable to accomplish this. If you can't handle this responsibility, I will have to find another architect.

 

PPS: We will be totally revising the blueprints once construction is finished. We hope that this will not add to the cost of the house and that you will do any additional construction for free.

It make me laugh and cry at the same time.

 

 

I actually work at an architectural office these days. ...gotto tell your, they don't get all that much respect they either... This letter isn't that far away from what they have to deal with...

the way I see it - you've bought expensive software / fonts / probably a book or 2 /perhaps degree training

 

 

I might help mates for free, clients pay a project plan+schedule +report and detailed brief in the early stages will show the client you're professional if you're taking a design that extra mile forward its quite time consuming

 

if you're freelance they are in effect hiring

 

a

 

i project manager

ii graphic designer

iii computer programmer

 

there's no reason on earth why all that should be provided for nothing, when it comes to web a lot of clients are strictly amateurish

I too get fed up off all the posts in the looking to hire section about doing work for free or very cheeply. I recently finished with a client who, halfway through (the site was almost complete), started comparing me to the "website designers" that offer their services for £30 or less a page. What I find that clients dont seem to realise is that, although most people have got a library of code behind them, a website takes X hours to design and complete. And I refer back to the letter to the architect. I recently had a client who, when the site was finished, decided that he wanted to change the entire aesthetics for the site, bearing in mind he had already changed the look about 100 times. His argument was that i only provided a mock-up for the homepage. Regardless, he hadnt specified that he wanted different page designs.

 

What i really wish clients would understand is that theres a world of difference between freelance designers and template companies/eBay "designers"/web design agencies.

 

 

Thought I'd throw the pigeon amongst the designer cats...

 

It's not all the client's fault. A lot of the points Dizi listed are caused by 'designers' (and that is a very loose application of the term obviously) and one thing I've noticed a lot talking to designers, marketing agencies, small businesses and the like is that so many folks have been, or know someone who has been, ripped off even at respectable prices.

 

You guys must have experienced that... someone coming to you to fix something a cowboy has bodged? It's the flipside of the same coin. And so plenty of folks out there are very sceptical about spending lots - especially when, like you've all pointed-out, there are so many bedroom Photoshoppers willing to undercut you to pieces.

Heres an idea of a client for those fairly new to this:

 

A friends mum asked me to do a basic 4 page site - Home, About, Extra Info, Contact. Design and Code - £100 + extra for hosting

 

Normally i would be looking at £400ish, but as it was for a friend, i pulled in some favors.

 

Put a design infront of them (from a designer friend - i only code) "brilliant, how will that work with my blog?"

 

"you have a blog? can i see it?" "not yet, your making me one" "ok..........."

 

Right, dont want to cause too much trouble, so i agree to add a very basic blog.

 

I put the whole thing together "the colour scheme doesnt go with my company colours, i need it changed"

 

im given a list of chances, and make every single one. I hate how it looks, and its just unprofessional, but she wants to go ahead.

 

2 months down the line, im still argueing with her, especially considering she wants SEO to get her to the top of google, a new logo, and a CMS all added in, without any price increase.

 

Thankfully ive yet to have any information for the last 2 weeks, so am hoping that she has forgotten about me.

 

At the moment ive had to leave it as a "site under development" although i am so tempted to put a "site never going to be finished due to client failing to pay"

 

20 hours work, no money so far.

 

Moral of the story - dont do mates rates.

 

 

Reaper

Doing work for friend... dangerous business.

I do do 'mates rates however' I make it clear to them that:

 

business = business

personal = personal

 

Whilst they talking to me about their site I treat them like a client.

 

Its generally people not understanding good designers / Vs. Website makers that you can get at 1&1 for £2.99

 

What we normally do in these situation is be very blunt as its the only way - make it clear that would you expect your sparkie to re-wire your house for £3 as opposed to £300. Usually that gets them

 

Its the same for hosting - every day!

 

Client: "Oh I like your hosting packages and want to go with you but Company X is doing more for this price"

Us: "Im sorry but we dont compete with companies like that as we provide a better service"

Client: "Yeah but I want it for £1.00 not £15.00"

Us: "Then you will have to go with company x"

Client: "But I want to go with you as your better"

 

AHHHHHH

Yea, Preatree future hosts are offering double bandwidth for all new clients on the VPS, can you match it? You are better but i want it cheaper j/k

I think part of the problem also lays in how websites are sold. Businesses dont really give a crap about most things web designers talk about, all they care about is how much money it will make them. If you forget to mention that then there will be zero ROI and its worthless. Obviously you cant say how much money a site will make but you can estimate the size or the audience or ??foot fall?? going past/through the site.

 

If someone phoned you and offered to design boxes for you and told you how the right angles will be perfect how it will close seamlessly how its eco etc etc sure you'd be interested but you value on it would be low, its a bloody box why do u need them? However if they state it will get you noticed over the other companies and have previous case studies on who it helped people make more money suddenly your thinking HEY!! maybe i need some boxes...

It's not all the client's fault. A lot of the points Dizi listed are caused by 'designers' (and that is a very loose application of the term obviously) and one thing I've noticed a lot talking to designers, marketing agencies, small businesses and the like is that so many folks have been, or know someone who has been, ripped off even at respectable prices.

 

I am hearing that an awful lot from potential clients, marketing consultants and other designers too. There definitely seems to be a growing mistrust towards web 'designers'.

 

I've recently had a few people referred to me because their sites aren't working for them. Their sites are invisible to search engines, have a high bounce rate, aren't converting - basically not performing as a form of communication (which is the whole point after all).

 

Some have been 'hobbyist' sites, some have been quite expensive, some have been both. Some sites look quite nice, but aren't effective or aligned to business objectives. One looked fantastic, but was fundamentally unfit for purpose.

 

There's a lot I can do for their sites - basically do all the analysis, research and design (as in solving a problem, not just drawing) that should have been done in the first place, and not just concentrate on valid code and looking pretty.

 

Now obviously I can't just wade in and tell the client the 'designer' should have done a lot more, it's not my preferred sales technique, and that will just increase mistrust for anything and anyone web related. However the clients appreciate the situation they're now in, and that the designer showed little/no interest in understanding their business, and draw they're own conclusions.

 

It's quite disheartening, because for what they paid for the sites, they could have had the job done properly in the first place. Now it's hard to get the green-light to do what is now remedial work. They're impressed with proposals, but have now blown their budget and can't or won't 'throw good money after bad!'

 

Our profession is seriously undervalued mate.

To some extent our profession is being undervalued by under delivering, even when the clients are paying the going rate or more.

I'm guessing that most of the people who had bad experience with web-designers got what they paid for... very little to nothing.

 

 

 

This is one of the things I am currently trying to set up a site to address. A resource that will assist people looking to hire a web-developer to ask the correct questions so they have an idea of what to look for. The challenge here is to make the resource known to those that need it...

Hi there everyone

 

I am a newbie to this forum and thought this was an interesting conversation!

 

The number of people who come to us from previous web designers who did them cheap rates. They are not happy with their existing design. They want to look at what we have to offer. They then wonder why it costs more to get better! Do they even understand "better" until they see it?

 

Rookie designers (without meaning to) often spoil the worth of professional web design. How often do we hear "My son could do it cheaper"! Many folk do not appreciate the value of a web design service that offers a professional result and a web site that can actually be found by the search engine!

 

It is very frustrating. How do we deal with this? Do we just forget about those customers? How do we make them understand the difference?

 

Why is it ok to pay lots of money to a plumber for hours of work but when it comes to computer professionals, people always think it is overpriced!

 

Thomas - I love your idea of setting up a site to address this. Keep us updated!

I think a lot of the problem can be attributed to the designer zooming off and failing to accurately capture what the client wants

 

only once you know exactly what they want can you develop a project plan and schedule

 

make sure you know what they actually want before you touch a keyboard/ Photoshop

 

if the client sees they are dealing with a professional they'll cough up (youd hope)

 

I want a website

- how big a web site?

- what exactly is the purpose of the website?

 

you need to know that kinda info early on

 

if you want a website that looks like it was designed by a 12 year old great

I'm guessing that most of the people who had bad experience with web-designers got what they paid for... very little to nothing.

 

Not always - The "One looked fantastic, but was fundamentally unfit for purpose." that I referred to earlier was a £2500 six-page brochure site! But it was so generic it did nothing to target the customers the client really needed, or take the business in the direction they wanted to be heading. The minimal content was also only ever going to attract about 20% of the relevant searches, and the least appropriate ones for their business objectives at that.

 

This is one of the things I am currently trying to set up a site to address. A resource that will assist people looking to hire a web-developer to ask the correct questions so they have an idea of what to look for. The challenge here is to make the resource known to those that need it...

 

A very good idea indeed!

 

I think a lot of the problem can be attributed to the designer zooming off and failing to accurately capture what the client wants

 

Definitely. There's a lot about that treat an entire project as a 50/50 split between PhotoShop and coding. I'd be looking at more 70% research, analysis, copywriting, and determining content, structure, usability and flow before firing up PhotoShop.

One thing which I belive is also the issue: the visuals are usually the only thing a client can judge the website on. They don't have the knowledge of all the invisible that's required to make a site - therefor this is usually where they will give their feedback. And since the visuals are to a very high degree subjective - it easily lead to tension. Not to mention when the client isn't just one person - but multiple. Most likely they'll never agree mongst themself to what they want for visual expression and that often lead to many rounds of trying to explore something that everyone can agree on.