Hi

 

This is one of my websites: http://www.ittrainingsolutions.co.uk/

 

I am currently working on the mobile menu but I was wondering if anyone had any feedback on the current design?

 

Is there anything I could improve on / anything you like etc etc.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

One thing I would mention is that, using the full width of a screen is great, but you need to be careful not to over do it. Otherwise your eyes start to feel like they are splitting apart and going in opposite directions. The worst extent of this is on actual detailed pages.

Thanks very much for your feedback. Any chance you could send me a screenshot of what you're seeing please? The website has a max-width set on it but it's possible that it might be too wide or perhaps it doesn't work across all browsers.

You have set your max-width a bit too wide in my opinion. I typically set mine around the 1200px mark. I often have backgrounds breaking outside of that though.

Like this project I did for example, you see the banner and some of the background colors extend the full width, but the textual content is wrapped within the 'site-wrap' that has a max width (in this case 1170px)

http://k360.se/

 

Your site also kind of breaks down when you reduce the screen size, how do people on touch devices access the dropdown items in your main navigation?

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by rbrtsmith

I like the site you sent, it's really nice - I have no idea what's written without using a translation tool but I like it!

 

I see what you mean, I have changed the header and main content to 1200px max-width.

 

I am working on a reduced-width menu but I've been getting a bit tied up on having all the menu info on the mobile menu as well - the menu is pretty complex so I've decided to simplify it and use extra pages like on this site: ikea.fr (granted - not in the same way, but the design idea)

It's in Swdeish, I speak very little Swedish so I don't know what it says

 

I wrote a blogpost about how to deal with this kind of navigation, if you scroll down to my example you will see that theres a parent item, when you hover the child items appear. Pretty normal. If you add other items to make the menu too wide (I.e what happens on a small screen) you will see it collapses to a toggle menu. Then the submenu can also be toggled in the same way. This approach might help you.

 

http://rbrtsmith.com/2014/12/a-more-robust-dynamic-navigation-system/

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by rbrtsmith

Hi

 

This is one of my websites: http://www.ittrainingsolutions.co.uk/

 

I am currently working on the mobile menu but I was wondering if anyone had any feedback on the current design?

 

Is there anything I could improve on / anything you like etc etc.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

Im sorry but that is a terrible website, looks like a bad 90's windows knockoff, I dont think there is anything I could say that is good about it, im not kidding, its not even slightly good or slightly right for the business, sorry but I dont think me rubbing ego over bad design is going to help you

 

 

Im sorry but that is a terrible website, I dont think there is anything I could say that is good about it, im not kidding, its not even slightly good or slightly right for the business, sorry but I dont think me rubbing ego over bad design is going to help you

 

I guess there's always one...

 

I guess there's always one...

 

There usually is but beware, I am the only one who has replied so far that is a designer, I am also qualified as a designer the others who have replied are developers and as such they have concentrated their replies to the subject they know best and have not commented on the design itself.

That's fine, thanks for your feedback Fuzzy Logic

 

Im sorry but that is a terrible website, looks like a bad 90's windows knockoff, I dont think there is anything I could say that is good about it, im not kidding, its not even slightly good or slightly right for the business, sorry but I dont think me rubbing ego over bad design is going to help you

 

Can you explain what is bad about it? At least that will be helpful to the OP, including me.

 

I'm a developer too and being my typical self, I can't see anything wrong, other than what's been pointed out by Robert. My design skills are rubbish. What makes it such a bad design?

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by Lyndsey

 

Can you explain what is bad about it? At least that will be helpful to the OP.

 

erm, well I dont really know where to start but I will try

 

lack of hiraki, poor UI and UX, not enough thought as to the structure of each page, spacing is very poor, everything is just squished together and those images are all very generic boring, unexciting, the whole site is very forgettable. The logo, wow, I am not even sure if that is a logo, and seriously Ariel as the font? nothing says 'windows' like Ariel and the light blue.

 

What does a visitor do when they get to the bottom of the page?

its totally unclear what the website is about, you should be able to click the link and know within 2 seconds what the site is about and what it offers.

 

I did not realise its our job to type out all the principles of design in order to help someone because in this case that is what it would take.

 

 

 

You're entitled to your opinion. 100%.

 

But seriously, please be a little more tactful, there's no reason to be that directly harsh.

 

Be nice.

 

Sorry but I dont think being tactful would help in this case, I also think this website should be started from scratch with audience consideration and business needs taken into account, what I talk about is not opinion but fact based on design principles, there is no way to hide that.

 

lastly, if I think a website could be improved I would say so, like here, not great but a significant improvement from what was there http://www.webdesignerforum.co.uk/topic/82000-training-website/ its unfortunate that I dont see a single piece of design here that could be salvaged so the whole thing should be scrapped and done again properly, how would you tell someone that 'tactfully'?

 

Im sorry but that is a terrible website, looks like a bad 90's windows knockoff, I dont think there is anything I could say that is good about it, im not kidding, its not even slightly good or slightly right for the business, sorry but I dont think me rubbing ego over bad design is going to help you

 

I think some constructive criticism rather than just negativity would of fit in there.

I think some constructive criticism rather than just negativity would of fit in there.

 

I think telling someone its needs improvement when what it really needs is a complete rebuild is not very constructive in itself, it helps no one.

 

I think telling someone its needs improvement when what it really needs is a complete rebuild is not very constructive in itself, it helps no one.

 

 

I'll give you an example you can use for the future:

 

In my opinion I think you need to go back to the drawing board and do a re-design, take a look at example.com and example.com for some inspiration which will help you improve your design skills.

 

100% negativity is no good and your better off not posting.

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by EpicWebs

I'll give you an example you can use for the future:

 

In my opinion I think you need to go back to the drawing board and do a re-design, take a look at example.com and example.com for some inspiration which will help you improve your design skills.

 

100% negativity is no good and your better off not posting.

 

If you are designing a website, would it not be fair to assume that you should be researching website designs beforehand? Also what really annoys me are these people who come swanning in for opinions and then get snooty when they hear something they dont like, the op has not done this but it happens quite a lot. I am a qualified designer, I have worked very hard to get to this point and I dont see why I should be praising or even being polite to those who are no better at design than my 7 year old daughter, again not referring to the op but this is especially the case for those who pretend to be designers when they clearly dont have the first idea.

 

If you are designing a website, would it not be fair to assume that you should be researching website designs beforehand? Also what really annoys me are these people who come swanning in for opinions and then get snooty when they hear something they dont like, the op has not done this but it happens quite a lot. I am a qualified designer, I have worked very hard to get to this point and I dont see why I should be praising or even being polite to those who are no better at design than my 7 year old daughter.

 

You don't think you should be polite? Wow not much point carrying on with this then...

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by EpicWebs

You don't think you should be polite? Wow not much point carrying on with this then...

 

under the circumstances where advice is needed in part, yes.. not if they dont have the first idea on what they are doing and especially if they think they are designers when they clearly are not. This is my trade, as I said, I have worked very hard to learn what I know and those types of people swan in thinking they know it all and taking work from real designers, its the same as cowboy builders building houses as far as I am concerned, society gets so annoyed when that happens but when an unqualified 'designer' steals the work of actual designers, then businesses lose faith in real designers because of it, call me cynical but I get ticked off.

 

under the circumstances where advice is needed in part, yes.. not if they dont have the first idea on what they are doing and especially if they think they are designers when they clearly are not. This is my trade, as I said, I have worked very hard to learn what I know and those types of people swan in thinking they know it all and taking work from real designers, its the same as cowboy builders building houses as far as I am concerned, society gets so annoyed when that happens but when an unqualified 'designer' steals the work of actual designers, then businesses lose faith in real designers because of it, call me cynical but I get ticked off.

Someone who has asked for feedback in a forum is obviously concerned about their design, so they ask for some help and I don't think that justifies not being polite. Even if you think they are stealing work or giving other designers a bad name, we don't even know who the website is for, reading the original post we can maybe read into it that it is the OP's own website - a perfect place for improving their design skills, but even that's just guessing.

 

Edit: Sorry for taking over your thread OP.

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by EpicWebs

I'd like to add that everybody has to start somewhere, we ALL made terrible websites when we first started out. it takes time to learn from those mistakes, I feel many enthusiastic designers and developers simply give up when they see some of the simply outstanding work out there and realise that there's a huge mountain to climb to reach that professional standard, we should be helping to motivate these people rather than shooting them down.

No matter how good some of us are (Or assume we are) There are plenty of better designers and developers who would gawp at our work and think that it's awful. The truth is the 'Gurus' I've met have always offered me constructive critisism and that really helps with motivation and self esteem.

I'd like to add that everybody has to start somewhere, we ALL made terrible websites when we first started out. it takes time to learn from those mistakes, I feel many enthusiastic designers and developers simply give up when they see some of the simply outstanding work out there and realise that there's a huge mountain to climb to reach that professional standard, we should be helping to motivate these people rather than shooting them down.

No matter how good some of us are (Or assume we are) There are plenty of better designers and developers who would gawp at our work and think that it's awful. The truth is the 'Gurus' I've met have always offered me constructive critisism and that really helps with motivation and self esteem.

 

You are right, everybody has to start somewhere but this is not about a site that looks terrible (although it does) its about not using design principles, if someone was learning design and tried to follow some principles, that would be evident in the work, it may not look pretty but with a point and a push in the right direction they will get there, this website has very little if any hope of achieving that, anyone serious about design or serious about their business would not start making stuff without first knowing something about what they are doing

 

 

Someone who has asked for feedback in a forum is obviously concerned about their design, so they ask for some help and I don't think that justifies not being polite. Even if you think they are stealing work or giving other designers a bad name, we don't even know who the website is for, reading the original post we can maybe read into it that it is the OP's own website - a perfect place for improving their design skills, but even that's just guessing.

 

Edit: Sorry for taking over your thread OP.

 

Actually, stealing work is a start (I am talking layout, structure, colour, style and font combinations), it shows you are trying to achieve a goal through viable means, all design is 'stolen' to some extent, you just dont realise it until you find out where all the ideas for their website come from, there are no 'original' ideas left, everything has been done before, just in different form

Actually, stealing work is a start (I am talking layout, structure, colour, style and font combinations), it shows you are trying to achieve a goal through viable means, all design is 'stolen' to some extent, you just dont realise it until you find out where all the ideas for their website come from, there are no 'original' ideas left, everything has been done before, just in different form

 

You genuinely think:

 

1) the website is really bad

AND

2) they are stealing "layout, structure, colour, style and font combinations" ?

 

It just doesn't add up.

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by EpicWebs

Er no, read it again, I said the website is bad but was pointing to the fact that IF they had taken ideas from other places that would have been a good thing, I said that because you mentioned 'stealing', believe it or not, my point was that if there were things in there that were taken from elsewhere it would show at least one aspect of design principles, as it is, unless they picked some very poor designs to copy from I don't think that was done in this case.

Er no, read it again, I said the website is bad but was pointing to the fact that IF they had taken ideas from other places that would have been a good thing, I said that because you mentioned 'stealing', believe it or not, my point was that if there were things in there that were taken from elsewhere it would show at least one aspect of design principles, as it is, unless they picked some very poor designs to copy from I don't think that was done in this case.

 

I read that bit wrong... it still makes no sense to me to be impolite based on your reasons as you didn't even ask if this was practice or if it was for a client. You were just negative for the sake of trying to inflate your own ego and raise yourself above someone who was looking for help, which was wrong. You can tell it was wrong by the other posts in this thread and the likes/thanks on the posts agreeing from this side of the discussion and the lack of agreement on your side.

I read that bit wrong... it still makes no sense to me to be impolite based on your reasons as you didn't even ask if this was practice or if it was for a client. You were just negative for the sake of trying to inflate your own ego and raise yourself above someone who was looking for help, which was wrong. You can tell it was wrong by the other posts in this thread and the likes/thanks on the posts agreeing from this side of the discussion and the lack of agreement on your side.

This has nothing to do with ego I have yet to hear the views of another designer on this subject, one who knows design principles, you assume it's ego because of what I said, but since you are a developer and not a designer you could not possibly have the qualifications and the skills to judge for yourself whether it's a good or bad site and therefore understand why I sad what I have.

 

It's like me posting a website made out of tables and then getting upset because someone says I should not be doing that then jumping on my high horse getting upset over it.

This has nothing to do with ego I have yet to hear the views of another designer on this subject, one who knows design principles, you assume it's ego because of what I said, but since you are a developer and not a designer you could not possibly have the qualifications and the skills to judge for yourself whether it's a good or bad site and therefore understand why I sad what I have.

 

It's like me posting a website made out of tables and then getting upset because someone says I should not be doing that then jumping on my high horse getting upset over it.

 

I do have the skills to see if a design is good or not. As a developer you have to know if a design is good or not, especially as a front end developer. There is a huge difference between creating something from scratch as a designer and being able to see if the end result looks good or not. You still haven't given a good reason for being 100% negative and not offering any help to someone wanting help with design.

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by EpicWebs

So you know design principles? You know what design is and what it's suppose to do?

I know what makes a good user experience for a user and I work with designers to create that user experience. They are very closely related. We are moving onto another topic which is probably better done in a private message. As it stands I'm going to leave it here, you shouldn't give 100% negativity and base it on a high professional standard of design, which belittles the OP when they are asking for help. Working on your theory we should never post a link to a website unless it hits your criteria, but then there is no starting point for people who want to become good designers.

I'll let you have the last say, if you so wish.

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by EpicWebs

I know what makes a good user experience for a user and I work with designers to create that user experience. They are very closely related. We are moving onto another topic which is probably better done in a private message. As it stands I'm going to leave it here, you shouldn't give 100% negativity and base it on a high professional standard of design, which belittles the OP when they are asking for help. Working on your theory we should never post a link to a website unless it hits your criteria, but then there is no starting point for people who want to become good designers.

I'll let you have the last say, if you so wish.

So that's a no then.. So you don't know about design, you know about ux which are two completely separate skill sets, I can make that distinction because I have studied both design and ux as well as ui.

 

Basically means you don't have the skills needed to spot a good design from a bad one although you could tell us if the layout works.

Fuzzy just because we are developers and not designers does not mean we know nothing or very little about design, same goes for designers who develop, some of them are actually quite good at development too. I too can tell a good design from a poor one, maybe not to the level of a highly experienced designer, but I spend all my working days alongside a hugely experienced designer so his influence of course rubs off.

 

In answer to your question, it depends, a design is supposed to fulfil the requirements of the projects specification, if it's to generate sales then clearly conversion is the key here, it might be to build brand awareness, it could be a governmment website designed to offer useful information and have nothing to do with conversion. The one common thing though is UX, the UX has to work otherwise everything else falls flat on it's face.

 

Admittedly this website does have poor UX, that doesn't necesarrily mean that the designer & developer has commited a cardinal sin, He/She is here to ask for advice and learn so we can criticise all we want but we should be constructive about it. I can't imagine your first ever designs were any good. Nobody starts out an expert, and the common thing with every single expert on the planet is: they made mistakes. and they continue to make mistakes and learn from them.

 

Just like there's developers out there who could tear my work to shreds, there will be designers who can do the same to yours.

Fuzzy just because we are developers and not designers does not mean we know nothing or very little about design, same goes for designers who develop, some of them are actually quite good at development too. I too can tell a good design from a poor one, maybe not to the level of a highly experienced designer, but I spend all my working days alongside a hugely experienced designer so his influence of course rubs off.

 

In answer to your question, it depends, a design is supposed to fulfil the requirements of the projects specification, if it's to generate sales then clearly conversion is the key here, it might be to build brand awareness, it could be a governmment website designed to offer useful information and have nothing to do with conversion. The one common thing though is UX, the UX has to work otherwise everything else falls flat on it's face.

 

Admittedly this website does have poor UX, that doesn't necesarrily mean that the designer & developer has commited a cardinal sin, He/She is here to ask for advice and learn so we can criticise all we want but we should be constructive about it. I can't imagine your first ever designs were any good. Nobody starts out an expert, and the common thing with every single expert on the planet is: they made mistakes. and they continue to make mistakes and learn from them.

 

Just like there's developers out there who could tear my work to shreds, there will be designers who can do the same to yours.

 

Actually, it does mean you don't know, maybe you could spot a well layed out site from a badly layed out site, like I can spot the difference between tables and css, but I would not pretend to know whether my css or html is up to a developers standards. Unless you know what design is, it's purpose, you don't know design, it's really quite simple. Just because I can look at an engine and know what part is the battery, does not mean I can tell you how the engine works.

 

The assumption that a developer who has never studied design could tell a good design from a bad one is laughable at best as design is objective, not subjective, you cannot look at something in an objective way unless you can contextualise it in an objective way.

There's no better way to study & gain experience than working in the field. I can assure you there are designers out there who have never studied design at a typical institution like University who are better than you or anybody on this forum. Some of the most famous and celebrated designers never formally studied design.

 

It's a huge, and in my opinion false assumption to think that you have to have (formally) studied design to be good at it. I'm not by any means saying I'm a great designer, I'm not. But I do know about design, to a degree.

 

I know this much: It's not black and white between knowing design and not knowing it. is grey. Very grey.

There's no better way to study & gain experience than working in the field. I can assure you there are designers out there who have never studied design at a typical institution like University who are better than you or anybody on this forum. Some of the most famous and celebrated designers never formally studied design.

 

It's a huge, and in my opinion false assumption to think that you have to have (formally) studied design to be good at it. I'm not by any means saying I'm a great designer, I'm not. But I do know about design, to a degree.

 

I know this much: It's not black and white between knowing design and not knowing it. is grey. Very grey.

You see, that's why you know nothing about design, you have to understand what design is in order to design, experience is great, but you still have to know what design is. Your design for example, using one principle as an example, could be the ugliest thing in the world, but if it follows design principles and the person behind it knows what design is, the fact it's ugly makes zero difference.

 

The one thing you have said there that is true is that some areas are very grey but even in those cases there is always one thing that always stays the same, the communication value of design and if the design does not communicate to the audience correctly it will not work. In order for it to communicate correctly you need to understand design.

So what about those great and celebrated designers, who never formerly studied it. Do they know nothing about design? Because they have a pretty overbearing influence in the design patterns you see around today.

I find it ironic that the username of the member who is boasting about design being black and white is 'Fuzzy Logic'.

 

I'm bored of this now... so 'Fuzzy' you are the best designer in the world because you know everything. Other people are wrong to even try unless they have nineteen degrees, fourteen masters and ninety years of experience in design.

 

To the OP, I'm sorry that your thread has gone totally off-topic, it's amazing what ego can do.

 

P.S. Fuzzy, I might think about a new website soon. Can I take a look at yours to inspire me into correct ways? I wouldn't want to design it wrong now would I?

 

If you want to be rude, I will be truthful.. looks to me going by the look of your website that you really could do with the help! By the way, I have still been the only designer to answer so what qualifies you to tell me I am wrong, is it arrogance or ignorance?? personally I think its both

 

 

So what about those great and celebrated designers, who never formerly studied it. Do they know nothing about design? Because they have a pretty overbearing influence in the design patterns you see around today.

 

Who cares if they formally studied it? Not once have I ever said formal studying it is a requirement, all those "celebrated designers" knew what design was, you dont need a university for that, you just need to learn, that learning will then show in your work. Dieter Rams tried to define good design https://www.vitsoe.com/gb/about/good-design but this is not a comprehensive list by any means, looking at places like the design council and the AIGA they each have more definitions but one thing is constant, and that is no matter the type of designer, industrial, graphic or clothes for example, design must and does communicate, the skill comes in when you know how to communicate with design.

 

True to form, rude little troll aren't you. Do you even have a website?

 

I'm probably as good a developer as you are a designer. You're giving it the big one but I checked your deviantart page and aside from a few things on there I can't say I was particularly impressed to be honest. You don't have to be a chef to know that you don't like the food you just eat.

 

Ahh, more ignorance.. If you knew what design was you might have noticed that what I have on my devient art profile is ART and not DESIGN.. yes that's right, there is a difference! (with exception of two logos and a meme I did in my first year of uni, kept for sentimental value)

 

I dont have a website online at the moment, are you assuming that every designer MUST have a website? I have no need for one for now, I never once mentioned a thing about your development skills, not once have I insulted your trade because I am not arrogant enough to think I am able to argue a point in development that I quite clearly know bugger all about.

 

I wonder if you know what the word 'troll' really means, because if you did you would not use it in the context you just have because quite clearly as its you stepping into my area when you know nothing about it, you could say you are the troll.

 

By the way, just in case you missed the obvious (as usuall), you were rude first.

Ok I think that's enough now.

 

EpicWebs – don’t worry about taking over the thread, I appreciate your posts.

 

So it seems that Fuzzy Logic is intent on insulting everyone - and objective reached - now you can go home happy.

 

You seem to have issues and I don’t know what they are, perhaps you’re frustrated by problems in your life and you chose to take that frustration out on this thread, I think there are better ways to deal with anger than to unleash it on anyone and everyone who crosses your path on this forum. I know you are going to say that I’m wrong and that you are talking about timeless design principles, instead of just unleashing your stress in a harmful way, but come on, be honest. I can already imagine what your reply to this will be, but I think you’re probably suffering because to be so aggressive so quickly to so many people is not normal.

 

Thanks everyone else for your feedback and posts, I've learnt a lot and I am as determined as ever to keep improving (despite the seething hatred from some, but I have very thick skin so that's fine).

 

You know what they say – when there is no wood, the fire goes out, so I’m not going to reply to any more of your posts FL. I wish you all the best, I really do, and I hope you also continue to make progress, as we all need to do. A wise proverb says:

 

“A wise person listens and takes in more instruction; A man of understanding acquires skillful direction”

 

Think about it.

 

Over and out.

P.s. To everyone else: The client told me not to touch the logo other than resizing it, so I'm afraid I can't do anything about it. It wasn't designed by me and the client likes it so don't think I'm not listening if the logo doesn't change, I actually don't have permission to alter it, I just have to do my best with it. At the end of the day, it's the client's choice, and I would be a very bad service provider if I argued with the client when their mind is made up, the word counter-productive comes to mind (as well as "fired"). I know that I will probably get shot down in flames for saying this, but sometimes stability comes first. They don't want to change, and I respect that, I respect their wishes, and the world keeps turning. I will mention it again delicately but at the end of the day - they choose, and they have the right to.

 

“A wise person listens and takes in more instruction; A man of understanding acquires skillful direction”

 

 

In order to listen and take instruction dont you think it more important for the person giving instruction to know what the hell they are taking about?

why dont you think about that before telling me that I am the one that is being aggressive.

 

All I have done is defend my trade against a bunch of people who do not know the first thing about it, Nock insulted me first, I did not insult anyone until that point, only then did I become really defensive, of which I believe was a very reasonable reaction considering the circumstances.

 

 

Personally when people ask for reviews I approach it initially as a user not a designer/developer. So the important thing is does the page tell me what I need to know at a glance or do I have to scroll around looking for it. In this case there is scope for improvement but it isn't the worst web site I've seen by far.

 

The important aspect is that any criticism is structured and objective. It's all very well to say it looks like a dog's dinner but why do you think it looks like a dog's dinner.

 

The purpose of a forum like this is for users to exchange ideas and knowledge. If every site review ends up as;

 

Q. What do you think of my site?

 

A1. Wow it's gorgeous

 

A2. Looks like ****, bin it.

 

Then it will be pretty much futile asking for reviews.

 

Similarly those asking for reviews should be ready to accept and take on board any criticisms that do arise.