Hi,

We'd be interested to hear any advice on the following, or if anyone has had a similar experience?

A potential client initially refused to sign our contract or pay a deposit, both standard policy for us- we told them that working with a contract was non negotiable, we would never do this, but that we could come to an agreement re the deposit (ie, make it a smaller upfront payment). They refused again, and ceased contact. However, they then came back to us saying that they would, after all, sign a contract, but still did not wish to pay anything upfront. Again, we told them that we could agree to a smaller deposit payment, but would need something. They said that they would try to find someone else to do the work. Once again, it seemed that that was the end of it. But: they are now back again, saying that they wish to go ahead and will not only sign the contract but will also pay something upfront. The problem is that we don't especially wish to work with this company, even with everything signed and paid, as we suspect that given how difficult they have been before we have even started, they could well be nightmare clients! Equally though, we don't want to anger them, as there is nothing to stop them, should they choose to do so, leaving negative reviews of us. We also wonder why they are so very reluctant to sign or pay anything upfront- do they either have no money at all or do they simply not trust us? Either way, it doesn't look good. Anyone else experienced anything similar or have any advice?

Many thanks.

 

Just tell them you have no desire to work with them after they've messed you about. Or make an excuse and say another project has landed or you've moved a future project forward and their 'slot' is now gone if you don't want to be blunt. To be honest, from what you've said it sounds like getting rid of them now will spare you a lot of hassle in future.

 

Anyone who won't sign a contract or pay a deposit would be ringing alarm bells in my head.

They do sound like a "hassle" client - the red flags seem to be there already.

 

Walk away, move on...

Hi,

We'd be interested to hear any advice on the following, or if anyone has had a similar experience?

A potential client initially refused to sign our contract or pay a deposit, both standard policy for us- we told them that working with a contract was non negotiable, we would never do this, but that we could come to an agreement re the deposit (ie, make it a smaller upfront payment). They refused again, and ceased contact. However, they then came back to us saying that they would, after all, sign a contract, but still did not wish to pay anything upfront. Again, we told them that we could agree to a smaller deposit payment, but would need something. They said that they would try to find someone else to do the work. Once again, it seemed that that was the end of it. But: they are now back again, saying that they wish to go ahead and will not only sign the contract but will also pay something upfront. The problem is that we don't especially wish to work with this company, even with everything signed and paid, as we suspect that given how difficult they have been before we have even started, they could well be nightmare clients! Equally though, we don't want to anger them, as there is nothing to stop them, should they choose to do so, leaving negative reviews of us. We also wonder why they are so very reluctant to sign or pay anything upfront- do they either have no money at all or do they simply not trust us? Either way, it doesn't look good. Anyone else experienced anything similar or have any advice?

Many thanks.

 

 

Time to cut and walk away.. tell them you are now too busy to take the work, I would never reduce a deposit, I set a deposit to make sure I am paid for any work they could call to cancel, I make a point of telling them that once work has started its non refundable if they cancel.

Thank you very much, this confirms what I was thinking.

In some respects it's a two way process of trust.

 

Put yourself in the position of the business owner. I formerly had a business far removed from web design and other small business owners related some horror stories about sites created by supposed web designers they had paid often large sums. What spurred me to build my own site was when a good friend of mine paid some con artist £1600 for a four page site that turned out to consist of four large JPG images made in a graphics editor. The 'designer' likely took a morning at most to churn out this trash. The most impressive thing was the array of useless meta tags in the head of the page.

 

So as a small business they may be wary and nervous about handing out vital cash and backing themselves into a contract they can't easily extricate themselves from. As they likely know little about web design they are also probably worried that you'll blind them with science and techno-jargon. You will have probably felt that yourself if you've ever taken a car to be repaired, whereupon the bloke shakes his head, rubs his chin and after sucking deeply between his teeth says it's the horizontal water matrix separator and it'll cost a bomb as it'll mean a new clutch and exhaust to fix it.

 

So give them the benefit of the doubt, contact them and ask about any concerns and worries they may have over the process and try to enter into a dialogue to resolve them. This might also give you an indication as to their intentions as well.

 

Edit: This dialogue may also be useful to you as well as it may be that you might realise that perhaps the way you present to prospective clients isn't quite right. As you work in the field everything may seem perfectly clear but of course to those who don't and have no or little experience they may feel overwhelmed and it puts them slightly on their guard.

Edited January 17, 201511 yr by nfc212

Thank you for your advice adnfc212, but I always do my best to alleviate any concerns and try to avoid jargon as I know that most clients don't understand it and/or don't care about it: what they want is a professional website from a reliable company so that it can help them generate more business.

 

Everything went very well with the person I met at the initial meeting and he was quite relaxed. I explained the whole process to make things as clear as possible.The issue is with his boss (I have never met him) who replied a few days later that he would not go ahead if he had to pay a deposit and that he never signs contracts anyway- with anyone. That was non negotiable at the time so I thought that was it. But they now have changed their mind: he now wants to sign the contract and says that he will pay a small fee upfront. I can see that he may not have any confidence in us, but why is he so insistent on us doing the work? Since it is a relatively modest contract, my feeling is that it may not be worth the potential stress.

The reason you've never met the boss is because you have already met him, he was the bloke you discussed it with. He meets you discusses it but tells you he needs to discuss it with his boss so he can't make a decision. There's no point you trying to give them the hard sell if they can't make the decision. Then he can phone you or conduct an e-conversation and see if you adhere to what you said at the meeting.

 

I've had people do it to me and I've even done it myself a couple of times. It aids with determining the veracity of the person or business you're dealing with and prevents pushy sales people trying to hard sell.

 

One thing that I found some of these people used to do was to get perhaps three people to do the same job and then pay whoever hauls up first with the goods. This is why they don't want to put anything on paper with a signature. Some piece of human sh*te cost me a little over £3000 through doing that once. After that everything over a certain amount had to be subject to a contract.

By taking a deposit, the client has a financial commitment in the project and therefore is proving that they are prepared to pay for your time.

Trust works both ways, and I wouldn't even consider working with someone who won't pay a deposit or a contract. If they won't pay anything up front how can you be sure they'll pay the full amount when it's done?

 

For clients who I'm working with for the first time I'm prepared to split the cost into 3 chunks, or just have them pay a third of the total amount as a deposit, especially if they are a new business. For many people, they've never worked with designers or developers before, and are used to operating in a B2C capacity, rather than as a B2B, where a deposit is almost mandatory.

 

And contracts are not just something you sign without having read or understood them. They're not there to trick people, they are legal agreements that stipulate who, what, and how much in writing, to protect both parties. I send my contracts to clients to look at first. Anything they're unsure about or any amends/additions they wish to make, we discuss, effectively writing the contract together. If a client won't sign a contract, that to me is a huge warning sign, and I walk away. As a small business I can't afford to risk my time and income as my home is at stake.

Client won't sign a contract, just walk away...