December 15, 201015 yr Hi people, just found this forum after searching on Google to see whether it's worth getting any qualifications in web design to speed up my entry into the industry, turns out the people in the know don't think it is, so that idea is scrapped! (I've read all the threads on the subject btw, very informative). I am currently studying for a degree in Computing and information(BSc) with the OU, just started out (3 months ago) just to gain a solid grounding in the theory really, I'm quite happy so far because a lot of it is software and web design/development based and it's very interesting as it's what I want to do (and a few parts are quite complex!). From reading around I've noticed the portfolio is king in this field! But the problem I have is that I only really know HTML/XHTML and bits of other languages, so I'm guessing I'll need to learn a bit more before I can start one? Anyway, that's my essay finished Thought it would be better writing something like this rather than: "Hi, I like web design and ting" Joel Edited December 15, 201015 yr by J90
December 15, 201015 yr Hello and welcome Joel I'm sure you'll find plenty of info here Edited December 15, 201015 yr by mteam
December 15, 201015 yr Welcome ...But the problem I have is that I only really know HTML/XHTML and bits of other languages, so I'm guessing I'll need to learn a bit more before I can start one? CSS should definitely be next because CSS and HTML go together - HTML for the structure, CSS for the styling. Have a look after that at PHP which is widely used for server-side processing of contact forms, e-commerce, repeated code in many pages, forums, blogs and lots of other things.
December 15, 201015 yr Author Welcome CSS should definitely be next because CSS and HTML go together - HTML for the structure, CSS for the styling. Have a look after that at PHP which is widely used for server-side processing of contact forms, e-commerce, repeated code in many pages, forums, blogs and lots of other things. Yeah, I should have included CSS, I have used that as well. I've noticed a lot of employers want PHP knowledge, I'll make that another thing to master. What would be the minimum skill set I would need to enter the field? Because I'm currently searching for a job and would like to gain experience fairly quickly. I'm coming from an apprentice car technician background btw (crap job, don't ever do it people), but desperately want to do this work as a career. Edited December 15, 201015 yr by J90
December 15, 201015 yr Hello as metion by wickham php,css and xhtml go together but you must decide now if you want to code with asp or php asp is windows based and more expensive to host so the most popular would be php to start of learning as you go you can add asp and learn flash js and other bits and pieces. hope that helps
December 16, 201015 yr Author Thanks for the info everyone, so XHTML, CSS and PHP would be a good place to start?
December 16, 201015 yr start with HTML and CSS, then when you get good at that, and know it fairly well, then move onto PHP. Im now about to start PHP, and i have been learning HTML for a year and a bit now... Now im used to the syntax used in HTML and CSS, i now have to get used to those used in PHP scripting. Im trying to learn PHP over the xmas holidays
December 16, 201015 yr Yeah make sure you are totally comfortable with XHTML and CSS before moving onto PHP. As Ash said above, I'm in a similar position; I have spent the last 8/9 months on XHTML and CSS and only now am I moving onto PHP. Not to say this must be the same for you, but its really worth making sure you understand HTML and CSS really well.
December 16, 201015 yr Just thought i would add to whats already been said above in a looooong essay....... I have been working full-time in this industry now for almost two years, but i have been studying web design and development for over five years. Before i got taken on as a web designer - i must have had about ten interviews and only one asked me what qualifications i have got(CIW by the way). All the rest just wanted to see what i have done(portfolio)and what i plan on doing. But, you already know that! But in every one of those interviews i got asked what languages and software i knew. It wasn't until i starting learning PHP on top of my html/css skills that people started to ask me back for a second interview. So i believe that PHP is just as important to know these days than html/css, in fact i would start learning PHP NOW even if you haven't mastered html/css and while your at it stick jQuery in the mixer to. PHP and HTML work together and so does jQuery and CSS, so you could actually kill four birds with one stone. The one main thing i found and the point i am getting at is that you don't really start learning and truely master anything until you start working while under pressure in a commercial invoirment and hopefully along side good developers to help you along the way. When you get your boss asking you how long will it take you to create a jQuery powered slideshow that's controlled by a custom CMS - well, much to my bosses disgust it took me two weeks first time but now it would take me around two days. Even though i have half decent photoshop skills, i consider myself a 'Front-end developer and enjoy both design and development which in doing so will make me more marketable should i wanna leave. So just concentrate on learning the basics and learn these: html(HTML5) CSS(CSS3) jQuery PHP Photoshop I wished i starting learning a lot sooner than i did as i could well be working as a lead developer or even own my own company by now? all the best - Neil Edited December 16, 201015 yr by neilp
December 17, 201015 yr Author Thanks everyone for your input, everything is helpful so far. Neil, that's some great information and advice, thanks a lot mate, much appreciated! So basically I should learn the skills you have listed, but at the same time sort of thing? I'm still a little confused about the HTML5 and XHTML thing, should I be learning one instead of the other? or are they very similar anyway? I've been learning XHTML. Also, to learn jQuery would I not need to know Javascript? or is that a stupid question! I notice that a lot of positions I see advertised note Dreamweaver as an essential program to know, I take it that's another thing to learn? I'm not sure whether I want to be more of a back end developer or a designer. I'm guessing I'll find out when I try different things though. I'm currently unemployed but I'm using all my free time to learn the ropes and I want my next job to be in web design/development but obviously I'll need a good grounding, and portfolio, in it first before an employer will even think about employing me. Hell, I think I'd work for minimum wage or maybe voluntarily for a company to gain experience and knowledge, if that's even possible? Edited December 17, 201015 yr by J90
December 17, 201015 yr Thanks everyone for your input, everything is helpful so far. Neil, that's some great information and advice, thanks a lot mate, much appreciated! So basically I should learn the skills you have listed, but at the same time sort of thing? I'm still a little confused about the HTML5 and XHTML thing, should I be learning one instead of the other? or are they very similar anyway? I've been learning XHTML. Also, to learn jQuery would I not need to know Javascript? or is that a stupid question! I notice that a lot of positions I see advertised note Dreamweaver as an essential program to know, I take it that's another thing to learn? I'm not sure whether I want to be more of a back end developer or a designer. I'm guessing I'll find out when I try different things though. I'm currently unemployed but I'm using all my free time to learn the ropes and I want my next job to be in web design/development but obviously I'll need a good grounding, and portfolio, in it first before an employer will even think about employing me. Hell, I think I'd work for minimum wage or maybe voluntarily for a company to gain experience and knowledge, if that's even possible? Hey joe first off welcome to the forum, about dreamweaver it all depends what you are more into like u said u dont know if u wanna be a back end developer or a designer, well dreamweaver hands down is prob more for the designers, as things like PHP DESIGNER 2010,RAPID PHP, NOTEPAD ++ are more for developers although u can freely do HTML/CSS/DESIGNING in these editors as well but more aimed for developers. Im personally a developer with over 100's of hours coding php/mysql/javascript but it all depends what you really wanna do or just learn both. Hope this helps some.
December 17, 201015 yr Just thought i would add to whats already been said above in a looooong essay....... I have been working full-time in this industry now for almost two years, but i have been studying web design and development for over five years. Before i got taken on as a web designer - i must have had about ten interviews and only one asked me what qualifications i have got(CIW by the way). All the rest just wanted to see what i have done(portfolio)and what i plan on doing. But, you already know that! But in every one of those interviews i got asked what languages and software i knew. It wasn't until i starting learning PHP on top of my html/css skills that people started to ask me back for a second interview. So i believe that PHP is just as important to know these days than html/css, in fact i would start learning PHP NOW even if you haven't mastered html/css and while your at it stick jQuery in the mixer to. PHP and HTML work together and so does jQuery and CSS, so you could actually kill four birds with one stone. The one main thing i found and the point i am getting at is that you don't really start learning and truely master anything until you start working while under pressure in a commercial invoirment and hopefully along side good developers to help you along the way. When you get your boss asking you how long will it take you to create a jQuery powered slideshow that's controlled by a custom CMS - well, much to my bosses disgust it took me two weeks first time but now it would take me around two days. Even though i have half decent photoshop skills, i consider myself a 'Front-end developer and enjoy both design and development which in doing so will make me more marketable should i wanna leave. So just concentrate on learning the basics and learn these: html(HTML5) CSS(CSS3) jQuery PHP Photoshop I wished i starting learning a lot sooner than i did as i could well be working as a lead developer or even own my own company by now? all the best - Neil Have to be awkward dont you Edited December 17, 201015 yr by Ash Scott
December 17, 201015 yr I'm still a little confused about the HTML5 and XHTML thing, should I be learning one instead of the other? or are they very similar anyway? I've been learning XHTML. Yes, that can be confusing and it's still a little unclear. Essentially HTML and XHTML are processed the same way PROVIDED they are both written with content="text/html" in the meta tag. XHTML needs coding with lower case tags and needs some tags closed with /> instead of just > . XHTML written with content="text/html" is known as "tag soup" because it's a mixture of XHTML markup and HTML standards. Pure XHTML written with content="application/xhtml+xml" in the meta tag is a completely different thing. The slightest error will result in the page not displaying at all. Pure XHTML is reserved for specialist XML based languages like SVG and MathML and inappropriate for normal websites. Item 1.6 HTML vs XHTML in http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html says "The first such concrete syntax is the HTML syntax. This is the format recommended for most authors. (ie HTML) It is compatible with most legacy Web browsers." A few years ago many people thought that HTML was going to be superseded by XHTML and that one of the XHTML 1.0 doctypes was the appropriate doctype to use as preparation for the true XHTML 1.1 and 2.0 standards later but times have changed. It now seems that XHTML will be for specialist XML based languages like SVG and MathML and inappropriate for normal websites. HTML 5.0 is being developed and XHTML 2.0 will be developed alongside for XML coding. HTML5 and CSS3 are essentially introducing new features but the basic processing will be the same. It seems that the people who make these standards want us to return to HTML using HTML5 in future for normal websites. However, using the doctypes for XHTML 1.0 with content="text/html" will still work but become out of date. I tried to explain it here http://www.wickham43.net/generaladvice.php#xhtml but I admit I may not have understood it all correctly. In future there will be a fudge called X/HTML5 (note the / ) which means that you will be able to continue using XHTML markup (closing tags /> and lower case) with the HTML5 doctype provided that you use content="text/html"
December 17, 201015 yr Just thought i would add to whats already been said above in a looooong essay....... I have been working full-time in this industry now for almost two years, but i have been studying web design and development for over five years. Before i got taken on as a web designer - i must have had about ten interviews and only one asked me what qualifications i have got(CIW by the way). All the rest just wanted to see what i have done(portfolio)and what i plan on doing. But, you already know that! But in every one of those interviews i got asked what languages and software i knew. It wasn't until i starting learning PHP on top of my html/css skills that people started to ask me back for a second interview. So i believe that PHP is just as important to know these days than html/css, in fact i would start learning PHP NOW even if you haven't mastered html/css and while your at it stick jQuery in the mixer to. PHP and HTML work together and so does jQuery and CSS, so you could actually kill four birds with one stone. The one main thing i found and the point i am getting at is that you don't really start learning and truely master anything until you start working while under pressure in a commercial invoirment and hopefully along side good developers to help you along the way. When you get your boss asking you how long will it take you to create a jQuery powered slideshow that's controlled by a custom CMS - well, much to my bosses disgust it took me two weeks first time but now it would take me around two days. Even though i have half decent photoshop skills, i consider myself a 'Front-end developer and enjoy both design and development which in doing so will make me more marketable should i wanna leave. So just concentrate on learning the basics and learn these: html(HTML5) CSS(CSS3) jQuery PHP Photoshop I wished i starting learning a lot sooner than i did as i could well be working as a lead developer or even own my own company by now? all the best - Neil Great post +1
December 18, 201015 yr Author Thanks for the explanation Wickham. Can anyone help with my other questions?
December 19, 201015 yr Thanks for the explanation Wickham. Can anyone help with my other questions? When i mentioned learning HTML5 and CSS3, i didn't mean you have to or should do. But, all experienced web designers are now looking at learning at least some techniques as the browser support is better than people realize. And how good will that look when you present your CV to recruiters stating that you know or at least are currently studying HTML5, CSS3. I would put you on the top of the pile if that was me! As with jQuery, well from what i have seen it's quickly becoming a prerequisite for both developer and designers and to be honest....it's great fun to use and again would make you more marketable when you start applying for jobs. I have been learning jQuery for six months now and i didn't know any Javascript - although it would be bloody handy to have at least some javascript knowledge. But i did know Actionscript as i spent about a year working with Flash and that helped a bit. HTML and CSS are probably the easiest languages that you will need to learn and shouldn't take anyone more than three to six months to become comptetent enough to move on to other languages such as PHP and jQuery. While studying i would use Dreamweaver(in code view) as your text editor and Photoshop for all the graphics and within six to twelve months you will have all the prerequisites sorted and can concentrate on building up your portfolio. To help you out i have listed some great tutorial sites that i always use and are mostly FREE. http://net.tutsplus.com http://www.smashingmagazine.com http://sixrevisions.com http://css-tricks.com/ http://addyosmani.com And don't forget.... http://www.lynda.com
December 19, 201015 yr Author Ok, that gives me a much better understanding. Thanks for the links, they all look very informative, I've got quite a lot of lynda.com material, so I'll probably be able to get a lot of the basics from that. I've always used Notepad++ as an editor, but I think I should switch to Dreamweaver so I get used to it. I'll be studying about 12 hours a day, so hopefully I can get things going sooner rather than later. Cheers for the help Edited December 19, 201015 yr by J90
December 20, 201015 yr Hi,Welcome to the Forum! I believe you already gaining information that somehow would be needed in your venture! Just enjoy your stay here and please do share your piece as we'd love to learn also from you! Cheers,
December 20, 201015 yr Author Hi,Welcome to the Forum! I believe you already gaining information that somehow would be needed in your venture! Just enjoy your stay here and please do share your piece as we'd love to learn also from you! Cheers, Thanks mate, though I think it will be quite a while before I can teach anyone on here about...anything!
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