Hi there,

 

Having been doing freelance for a while now, something which I hear again and again from the people who pays me beer money is "One of the things that made you stand out is that you are English"

 

They say this because within an hour of posting a "help wanted" they get swamped by Indian outsources/freelancers and the moment a well written British email comes through, they jump on it.

 

Without the Indian surplus, British 'lancers would have to stand on real merits, and work would be harder to get.

 

Because of the swamping that people recieve, they become very hesitant to make a second "help wanted" post, and will be much more likely to stick with the same reliable Brit designed/developer they used last time.

 

So I say this : enough complaining about how Indians are destroying the industry - lets thank them for being such horrific spammers, taking away the cheapskates, encouraging client loyalty, and making mere nationality a desired skill.

I see your point here...

 

Working as a freelance web designer myself, I get swamped by numerous junk mail from Indian outsource companies. And I always ask the question: Would the communication, quality, feedback and workmanship be as good as a british developer? Just for the record, I am not saying it would not, but it seriously raises the question in my mind, when I read some of these emails.

 

karlos

I just say that people in India have to make a living just like we do...its not like us British own the right to develop all websites in the world.

 

There are millions of rip off just waiting to bite you in the arse. So let companies make up their own mind, I know some good developers that live in India and some terrible developers that live in Britain...its a person thing rather than a location. You will always have to battle with other companies/freelancers for a job no matter where they are located, so outsourcing hasn't really bugged me much

Hi Dizi,

 

Do you use outsourcing often? I am curious from a web designers perspective.

 

Karlos

ohh no I don't use outsourcing personally, I just don't have a problem with outsourcing...I just see it as other people using their skills to get the same job that I am trying to get, much the same way that you get people in England saying they will do a whole site for £50 when they don't have a clue.

 

 

As long as someone can do the job they are applying for then why bother being upset about it. my complaints are all directed at so called 'web designers' who can't design, code, or know the first thing about how to do a site calling themselves 'web designers' trying to get jobs on the cheap and all that...they are far worse than outsourcing to India in my little opinion

It's a touchy subject, but I agree with Dizi - it isn't just people from India who do this, you get the same from 'designers' all over the world, UK included. These are people that have either taken a course in web design and think they are ready to make a business out of it (they aren't), or 12 year olds who want to make a quick £30 and produce utter tripe.

 

Unfortunately this severely damages the industry, as clients become extremely cautious and ultimately stop looking on the web, either because they have been ripped off, or just because there is way too much crap to sift through. It is a shame that some people feel that they need to send emails to every single job on a forum/jobsite, without even looking at the spec - offering low prices to secure the jobs. This just lowers the value of the entire industry as a whole, as clients expect those low prices everywhere, and unfortunately for the client, you get what you pay for!

 

At the end of the day, if you are a good developer, and you know your stuff, then you will ultimately come out on top. You just need to persevere and stay away from places overrun with these spammers.

 

Rob

Hi RobH, Dizi, KarlosB

 

I didn't mean to target Indian developers specifically, but they tend to be about 90% of this group - ie people who charge very little and create utter tripe. There are obviously plenty of good Indian developers, and plenty of poor British ones, but due to the population of India and the lack of a minimum wage there, the numbers of good and bad are multiplied greatly.

 

My point was that the cheap-as-chips developers help to weed out the cheap-as-chips clients - the ones who don't understand how valuable yours or mine time is, and will expect a full clone of Amazon for £400. Admittedly the problem was started due to the "schoolkid + dreamweaver = web designer" group, but if they were magically dissapeared, we would spend a lot of our time taking abuse along the lines of "how can you justify charging that much?"

 

And yes, being ripped off in any industry is going to make that person wary of purchasing again, but a British client will see a British developer/designer with an established portfolio, and especially one who is willing to talk over the phone, as a much lower risk than an Indian developer, even if this is not true.

 

For the clients who aren't cheapskates, finding a reliable British webhead is paramount, and without the cheap-as designers this advantage would be lost.

Indian freelancers are good for you

 

FILIPINO freelancers are BETTER for you!

 

 

Kidding! Actually, nationality has nothing to do with web development skills.

 

Even though stuff like Paypal makes it easier to transact with different people and companies from around the world, I persoally prefer working with clients who can sit with me in a coffee shop while discussing business.

These are people that have either taken a course in web design and think they are ready to make a business out of it (they aren't),

 

oh really

 

not that i think you were referring to me personally, but there's nothing wrong with with studying web design and setting up as a freelancer.

 

doesn't guarantee anything but if it's a well formed course, probably better to have done this than not don't you think ?

 

oh really

 

not that i think you were referring to me personally, but there's nothing wrong with with studying web design and setting up as a freelancer.

 

doesn't guarantee anything but if it's a well formed course, probably better to have done this than not don't you think ?

 

 

I'm talking about these evening courses in Dreamweaver, I know people who have taken them, and you get taught really bad practices. Some of the people that teach you aren't even real web designers, they are just people that learnt how to use Dreamweaver.

I'm talking about these evening courses in Dreamweaver, I know people who have taken them, and you get taught really bad practices. Some of the people that teach you aren't even real web designers, they are just people that learnt how to use Dreamweaver.

 

fair does. think your spot on there with the dreamweaver stuff, goes to show the actual course counts for a lot - we were steered well clear of dreamweaver on our course and prety much told css/xhtml for good marks folks.

I have used a few in the past that are either too costly or low quality. I am sure the perfect foreign provider exists but i think our problem is that there are so many, and like you I am swamped, so its not possible to keep moving from to another to find the perfect supplier you can have a good relationship with. I also find that the ones I used were supposed to be cheap due to lower hourly rates (~£10 p/h), but the hours they quote for projects were high so the final cost was the same or higher than what I could do it for in the first place at a higher hourly rate.