Hi Guys,

 

You may know me from around the forum or on Twitter. I have a bit of a dilemma. I like straight up SEO, that doesn't bend rules and organically builds link fairly and meaningfully. I am however up against a powerful competitor using spammy methods (that probably wont get banned anytime soon).

 

I am working on a competitive keyword where the main competitor has about 1000 inlinks which quite clearly are set up on various blogs their SEO'rs have set up and spammed the hell out of. Now usually this wouldn't worry me too much but they truly are cornering a lot of the market as a service which annual and quite transactional.

 

When a client wants to compete with competitors who are clearly getting inlinks which are fairly spammy. What is the best way forward? In theory in this sector (quite niche) 1000 meaningful inlinks will probably take a year to build up.

 

Anyone got any ideas for building inlinks other than the usual slow method, and creating new content that people may link to?

 

Starting up a series of spam blogs just to compete seems really pointless to me.

Don't fight fire with fire Charlie - stick to your guns and your methods. Lets face it - a load of spammy blogs and links are just that. Who's going to be reading them and following them? Only robots. Yes, you want robots to visit the site, and yes you want robots to recognise the site, but what use are they without customers? Customers who come back, and customers who provide word of mouth recommendations/ organic links.

 

Write quality content consistently. Give your audience what they want and more, and watch your client's custom and SEO pick up.

 

At the end of the day, you're spending their money. I would explain to them (if they ask) why you won't be copying their competitors methods, and why your methods are going to work, and in terms of actual business, produce much better ROI.

 

Good luck sir!

The term itself is vague, the problem here is 'x' competitor actually doesn't provide the service they say they do. They outsource (and mark prices up) to company 'y' who is my client. So it is understandable that my client wishes to top them. The service is not highly searched as it is only required once a year.

 

I agree that long tail terms tend to convert better, but given the recent Google Mayday changes we have noticed drops in some traffic from long tail keywords across the board.

 

I have a couple of ideas that I am going to try out - it is mainly the offpage factors that have to be improved.

 

As always though, it is about the ROI and converted traffic not just getting traffic. Thanks guys.

what are pageranks like from the spammy blogs?

 

They range from 0 upto 4. Which is odd as they basically all have the same content, no contact, no comments just basic uneditable blogs.

Best thing to do is come up with some killer piece of 'link bait' (in the good sense of the term). By that I mean put that clever marketing cap on I know you've got hanging up on your hatstand and think of what would draw not only potential punters but also traffic/ links from other relevant places.

 

Some kind of resource - don't know what market you're looking at but it could be anything from some kind of online tool that offers some useful functionality, a report/ data/ analysis that's usually hard to find or costs, an app or some cracking 'viralesque' type piece of content.

Could a blog/ forum/ other community with a specific purpose be created - is there something potential punters want to talk about? Is there a community just begging to be formed?

 

I don't know what the market is so can't be specific, but (and I always think this is the case) the best SEO results come from promotional activities not 'SEO' ones... that's organic.

 

I know you know this! What I'm suggesting is thinking about the situation as a marketing problem not an 'SEO' one. Get it right and who says it's slow? If something catches on, goes viral then that's quicker than all the spammy link-building in the world.

Good advice from Wizely. One question: what's a long tail keyword?

Wizely, you are right. I agree with your sentiments exactly, it should be organic and for some other reason than just SEO. It is just going to take a little bit of work with a rather unappealing but necessary service.

 

I have had a brainwave of a couple of other really interesting things I can offer on top of the 'seo' inlinking. Of which I think I am going to settle with pitching magazines and the like to use pieces i'll write to link back. I may persuade the client to write a blog, though I think it is more likely to get spots on other influential blogs rather than maintaining.

 

One question: what's a long tail keyword?

 

I got yer here. -> Long tail is like this:

 

 

Basically the main volume of traffic will come from a small amount of keywords.

 

However a lot of traffic comes from those less clicked keywords, actually about 80% of traffic comes from longer more specific keywords. Those 5/6 word strings you'd never otherwise guess to target.

You can all burn me at the stake for heresy, but I really don't care how I get past a competitor in the search engines! I always go for genuine back linking and proper blog entries, article writing and all the good clean and wholesome ways to get to the top of the SERPS. But there is nothing wrong in a bit or grey or indeed black hat to get ya client up there.

 

There has not ever been an instance where one of my client's competitor's backlinks have not been either paid for or concocted, in either part or completely. And to beat that kind of activity ya got to do a bit of the same to get past them!

 

Go and take a look at Micrositez an SEO company based in Glasgow who do get results (I'm not a shareholder btw). They are completely open in their methods and tell you how many 1000's of directory entries they will make etc, etc for whatever package you pay for. Is that spam or organic?

 

Take the weblink at bottom of this page for Heart Internet. Is that a wholesome organic listing placed there cos this forum thinks it will be useful for us? No, it's probably a paid link and I hope Ben's doing damn well out of it too! But more importantly Heart think they will get something out of it, not just in terms of advertising (if it was purely advertising then the link would say Heart Internet). But as it says web hosting, it must be there for their SEO benefit.

 

Ultimately, its all spam cos were doing it to get to the top of the SERPS, it's just the depths ya prepared to go to get there!

 

Ok that's me done and I'll be waiting at the door for ya all to arrive with ya pitch forks and torches after dark!!! The kettle will be on...

 

All the best,

Numb

 

PS @ charliesaidthat That tea must be cold by now!

Ultimately, its all spam cos were doing it to get to the top of the SERPS, it's just the depths ya prepared to go to get there!

Actually I disagree with this. Getting good SERPS is one aim, but equally important must be conversions. What's the point of being at the top if nobody is buying? So for me, spam is content for robots with no human appeal. Content with human appeal which happens also to appeal to robots (as it will organically) is marketing worth paying for.

Actually I disagree with this. Getting good SERPS is one aim, but equally important must be conversions. What's the point of being at the top if nobody is buying? So for me, spam is content for robots with no human appeal. Content with human appeal which happens also to appeal to robots (as it will organically) is marketing worth paying for.

 

Absolutely (I agree with you disagreeing with me ???). Traffic is only half the story. Conversions are the ultimate goal. But it is a numbers game, with more traffic, the more opportunities you get to convert.

I know there is a place for paid for advertising don't get me wrong. Adwords is often on my recommendations, as are other more innovative behavioural targeted advertising. Here I was focussing on organic results really.

 

I just feel by spamming it hurts the brand infinitely more than it helps (as someone in the know). Maybe having morals does affect this line of work somewhat... Doesn't stop me having a go though.

I've gotta say 'link-building' as most people seem to see it is not the best way to get a site high in the SERPS. Before anyone (especially those 'SEO gurus' who run link-building services) get outraged... I'm not saying getting links aren't vital, I'm saying running around submitting to ****ty directories that no one actually uses, blogs that no one actually read etc. is inefficient, less effective, prone to algorithm changes and does nothing else for the business.

The BEST technique for appearing high in SERPS is promoting a site that has something visitors want to consume. Depending on the site it could be valuable/ entertaining/ unique content, functionality or service etc.

And then of course having a site that works hard to convert those visitors. Target the right visitors in the right places at the right time with the right message and it's NOT a numbers game. Why chase more hits if your bounce rate is through the roof? It means you're not getting the right visitors or doing enough to convert them.

Too many times 'link-building' is a sign of desperation, penny-pinching or mis-information. And by that I mean... if Charlie here came up with a killer concept, promoted it well and it went viral (and he will coz he's clever) then it will generate thousands more links than 'link-building' could AND create a buzz that builds brands like nothing else.

Of course that's much harder to do and takes marketing/ advertising expertise. Which is why 'link-building' is much more prevalent and why Indian outsourcers don't spam me daily offering effective marketing, just "the providings of link buildings".

 

Even without the good fortune of something going viral, the best method of getting customers and links is through having a good business in the first place, promoting it and ensuring the website converts visitors to customers. 'Social media', articles, blogs, forums... don't just drop a link - build a name for the business, build relationships, have conversations with potential punters...

 

Sorry Charlie for turning this into 'Online business 101' - it's not directed at you guys, just time for my annual "God I hate SEO threads"!

 

PS. I haven't used the term 'SEO' because marketing, promotion and quality content are NOT created by the process of SEO or for SEO. You can optimize certain things about these key ingredients but SEO isn't an ingredient in itself. Again I have to say you have to optimize something.

 

And that's enough for another year - it's why I stay away from SEO threads!

PS @ charliesaidthat That tea must be cold by now!

 

Heretic!! Burn the witch. Quick. Tea doesn't go cold, ever.

 

 

I really don't care how I get past a competitor in the search engines! I always go for genuine back linking and proper blog entries, article writing and all the good clean and wholesome ways to get to the top of the SERPS. But there is nothing wrong in a bit or grey or indeed black hat to get ya client up there.

 

...

 

There has not ever been an instance where one of my client's competitor's backlinks have not been either paid for or concocted, in either part or completely. And to beat that kind of activity ya got to do a bit of the same to get past them!

 

....

 

Ultimately, its all spam cos were doing it to get to the top of the SERPS, it's just the depths ya prepared to go to get there!

 

I dunno - I just feel that it ain't worth paying extra for when you can pay for more legitimate and useful advertising elsewhere to convert leads into business. There are the useless blog posts that get listed and aren't for human consumption whilst there are advertising methods that will get seen by humans and create inlinks naturally which seem much more efficent.

 

 

Cheers again to Rallport, Wizely & Notbanksy for keeping me sane whilst looking at the insanity of some SEO'rs work. Sorry for disrupting your blissful time away from the SEO threads Wizely.