Hi,

 

I was making a website for free for a small business and they passed my details to another business who want to pay me to make them a website.

I've never been paid to make a website before and my skills are 'intermediate' I've only just learned CSS and that and my knowledge is still a bit flaky on it, so I'll still be learning parts as I go. The website I just finished had taken me over 3 months, due to my 'perfectionist' streak and my lack of knowledge. I realise that if I'm being paid, I better not take as long to do it, but I still have to be thorough with the website.

 

My questions are:

 

Since I will be paid to make a website, do I need to have a contract, professional invoices, quotes etc?

 

What should I do first? I've talked to the client and asked what they require - site design, colour scheme, content, time scale. They didn't really give me much to go on, doesn't matter what colour, design, they don't have a time scale, I don't know how much content there will be. So it makes it quite difficult!

 

I haven't yet given a price, they just want a basic site to advertise their goods - nothing fancy but it will mainly contain pictures, they also want it as cheap as possible, but I don't know what 'cheap' means to them. I've been scouring the internet for prices, but they vary so much! I prefer to pay by project e.g 5 pages £150 something like that - would that be far too much to charge?

 

Also they don't have a domain name or webspace, I think the best way is to point them in the right direction of web hosting as I don't want to be stuck with a monthly fee for hosting etc - would that be the right thing to do? I don't know how to do it any other way?

 

Any other hints and tips for someone just starting out?

 

I don't know if I'll continue to do this, I'll see how this site goes first! It's quite stressful just now and I haven't even started!

 

Thanks!

i would get straight into building. ive been freelancing for 8 months and i haven't done any contract or anything for the sites im being paid for.

 

Meet the company, ask what they want and discuss the best way of going about it, you can then think of an estimate for a cost and a time scale.

Since I will be paid to make a website, do I need to have a contract, professional invoices, quotes etc?

 

It's not required but I highly recommend getting everything in writing. If they balk at this, just tell them it's for their security as much as it is for yours (which is true).

 

You don't need a lawyer or gigantic contract to get started; there are a few templates on the Internet and also a thread here that links to a great template if I remember correctly. If you have trouble feel free to PM me and I'll send you the contract I use.

 

What should I do first? I've talked to the client and asked what they require - site design, colour scheme, content, time scale. They didn't really give me much to go on, doesn't matter what colour, design, they don't have a time scale, I don't know how much content there will be. So it makes it quite difficult!

 

They'll have to come up with some idea of content before you can give them a firm quote - never commit to doing a site regardless of content unless they are paying A LOT for it (thereby anticipating a lot of content); what if they come back wanting 100 pages of their catalogue?

 

What you could do is give them your opinion on how to layout the site, e.g. "I think your company should have an About Me, Contact page, a page about Pants, a page about Jackets, and a page for Underwear. So that's a five-page site, which I can do for XX price." Chances are they won't disagree with you.

 

Then you write that in your contract: 5-page site with pages for x, y, and z, with a clause that you will do additional pages for xx amount or billed at a rate of yy per hour.

 

Most clients need some sort of prompting for ideas and will only tell you what they want after you submit the first design (sad but true... suddenly they realise they wanted a pink polka-dotted site when they see you've made them a blue one!). This is especially true for indecisive clients like the one you're describing. If you're able to get in writing the amount of changes you're willing to do, whether you'll do the logo/graphics too, etc. this will help you and could also make you more money as you can bill for additional time/changes.

 

I haven't yet given a price, they just want a basic site to advertise their goods - nothing fancy but it will mainly contain pictures, they also want it as cheap as possible, but I don't know what 'cheap' means to them. I've been scouring the internet for prices, but they vary so much! I prefer to pay by project e.g 5 pages £150 something like that - would that be far too much to charge?

 

That's about right for the UK, maybe even a few pounds lower than average. Bottom line is you should think about what you're comfortable charging; if you know it will take you 200 hours to get the site done, GBP150 suddenly doesn't sound so great (unless you want the experience, not the money)!

 

Also they don't have a domain name or webspace, I think the best way is to point them in the right direction of web hosting as I don't want to be stuck with a monthly fee for hosting etc - would that be the right thing to do? I don't know how to do it any other way?

 

You can incorporate web hosting into your contract and take care of it for them. There are positives and negatives to this and in my experience most freelancers don't do it whereas most design companies do. You can do web hosting via what's called a reseller account or just buy a new account somewhere.

 

On the positive side:

- You can charge a premium rate

- You own the domain name

- You can charge transfer fees if they ever want to switch away from your web hosting

 

On the negative side:

- You will have to invoice them yearly for hosting/domain name

- You will ultimately be responsible for the future of the site: If they don't pay for their hosting on time, do you let it cancel?

- Miscellaneous problems with payments, bounced cheques, etc... but you still owe someone else (the web hosting company) money!

 

If it's a smaller site you could also consider hosting it on your own pre-existing hosting contract, provided they let you host multiple domains (Bluehost does, for example). If the client wants FTP/Cpanel access though, you may need to rethink this.

 

Any other hints and tips for someone just starting out?

 

My biggest tip is to get everything in writing; even email communications can be used in court if there's a discrepancy. Plus, having a contract makes you look professional, so you're well on your way if they think you've done this a million times before!

When I have done direct-to-owner sites (i am doing more outsourced work atm), I follow this scheme:

 

- initial talk. What the site is about, who the target audience is etc. Then i suggest a vague colour scheme (eg dark blue & orange), as well sketch out a couple of designs on paper - really wireframe stuff... The client can draw here too. Vague cost estimate at this stage.

 

- go and flesh out the designs with the right colour schemes, as well as start on the backend scripting. 2 weeks here.

 

- second talk. The design is chosen at this stage, but can still be changed. Any further concerns that either I or the client have at this tage are discussed. At the end of this, a more accurate costing can be established, and a mini-contract (i'll do the work if you pay me to do it etc, upto limit of £ XXX amount) is signed.

 

- properly do the chosen design, with all elements designed. get the first draft of the scripting done, so the site "works". Email correspondence suits here for any small questions.

 

- third talk. The semi-working site is shown in all its glory. The client almost always has changes at this stage. Work through every bit of the site, making sure he likes every bit. Write down all the changes, and tell him which ones will cost him extra (eg he suddenly wants a gallery or forum etc.)

 

- make all the changes

 

- fourth talk. Same as third really, but site should be much much closer to what the client wants tat this stage.

 

- more changes. buy the domain name, prep the invoices (using http://invoicemachine.com) and print them out.

 

- fifth talk. Payment is made (usually cheque, or direct bank transfer), and the site goes live within a few hours, or even minutes if you can. Project is signed off as complete.

 

there is basically a contract at the start and an invoice at the end. The key is to keep your client informed at all stages. Any less than one email a week is bad. That process takes about 6 weeks most times.

What you could do is give them your opinion on how to layout the site, e.g. "I think your company should have an About Me, Contact page, a page about Pants, a page about Jackets, and a page for Underwear. So that's a five-page site, which I can do for XX price." Chances are they won't disagree with you.

 

I like that idea, I think I will use that. Do you limit how much content there is on a page, as they may try to push their luck and want 200 photos on a page!

 

I will be communicating mostly by email as the client doesn't live near me. I think it's better to get my ideas across that way as I'm not good at expressing myself verbally, plus I am quite shy!

 

Thank You all for your ideas, it certainly a different ball game when there is money involved!

 

Now there is the issue of maintaining the site after it is done, they want to update the site themself, however they don't know html code and probably ftp! I've looked into CMS, but the webhosting doesn't support sql or php. Any ideas on how they can update the site easily?

 

Thanks!

i would get straight into building. ive been freelancing for 8 months and i haven't done any contract or anything for the sites im being paid for.

 

Meet the company, ask what they want and discuss the best way of going about it, you can then think of an estimate for a cost and a time scale.

 

I was going to suggest the Expat commented on this reply (until I read further) because it is so important to get everything written down.

 

Verbal stuff is perfect.....right up until the moment you disagree on something....then it will be downhill from there.

 

Get a deposit off them (if you think you can) at least to cover your costs.

I like that idea, I think I will use that. Do you limit how much content there is on a page, as they may try to push their luck and want 200 photos on a page!

 

Good point. I think it's harder to limit content but you can agree on the type of content. For example, if they want an image gallery, that is different than a page's worth of text with supporting photos. (In the case of the latter, you can give them a word count but as long as they're supplying you with the text electronically - i.e. you don't have to retype it - then word counts aren't a big concern).

 

Now there is the issue of maintaining the site after it is done, they want to update the site themself, however they don't know html code and probably ftp! I've looked into CMS, but the webhosting doesn't support sql or php. Any ideas on how they can update the site easily?

 

Unfortunately CMS is not my thing. *Waits patiently for a more intelligent reply from someone else*

you could probably find a half decent CGI or PERL CMS out there somewhere...

 

Really though you should get a real host.

 

edit: also there are a small number of offline CMS which upload static HTML pages from a desktop-stored live version.