Hi everyone. Have just signed up here after months of reading thousands of different topics! Have learned so much from you all already!

 

Anyhoo, I'm just setting up (currently writing a business plan, bleurgh) as a self employed designer/developer. I've been asked to do a complete site redesign by a family friend for his business. The reason he wants a redesign is because he's fallen out with the guys that originally created and uploaded his site (don't know the legalities) and wants nothing more to do with them.

 

The problem is, I've never done a redesign before, how do I get the new website online in place of the old one? Presumably I need the FTP settings just as for any new site upload? If so, how do we get them? Is there any way he can get his settings without dealing with the people who set it up for him? Or can I contact these guys on his behalf? Additionally, the site has been registered to the design companies name and address, it's not in his name.

 

I'm really keen to keep the URL he already has, would like to avoid having two website for the same business floating around?

 

Sorry for rambling on here, grateful for any help or ideas.

 

Many thanks

Rachel.

Thats a tricky one.

If they are hosting the website, even if they brought the hosting it's registered in there name, and you won't be able to ring up on behalf because you don't have anything to do with him in such a manor, because anyone could ring up a company saying oh yeh im joe blogs friend and he asked me to get the ftp details.

 

Our company has problems with this sometimes but it depends on the companies terms if they actually allow the ftp details to be given out.

 

The best thing I can imagine you can do is just persude your friend to ring the company up asking them for the ftp details and to transfer the domain, even then you still don't have full access over the ftp details because your only going to be a user on the server, and you will be restricted to that folder and won't be able to change password or users.

 

I hope this helps

Hi Shaney, yes big help thanks so much.

 

Was just wondering if you could expand on this part a little:

 

...even then you still don't have full access over the ftp details because your only going to be a user on the server, and you will be restricted to that folder and won't be able to change password or users.

 

So even if we do get the FTP settings, the original company could still access this and delete all the new files from the FTP? Is there any way he can take the name, hosting and settings (he's not bothered about the design) away from them completely?

 

Starting to think this is going to be a big project...

 

Thanks

Rachel

It's not really a big project, its just ftp access and domains becomes quite a nuisance when working as a designer.

 

Because the Web space provider will usually have a control panel which manages all the ftp's sites for that web space.

 

I'm presuming that company has only created some ftp space and a username on there own web space to save money buying individual web space for each customer.

 

There for if they have just an account It is not possible to completely take the ftp away from them seems the ftp is hosted on there web space, therefore it will always belong to them.

 

I advise a cheap web space, i've had it 2 months now (on top of my fasthosts and 1and1).

I was advised by my college teacher to have a look, it's not gone down once in 3 months, fast ftp uploads, useful quick control panel and some nifty features.

 

Reason it's so cheap because it's hosted abroad but that doesn't produce a problem!

 

www.one.com

 

I got 3gb of web space and a .co.uk for a year. For £20.

I know it's stupidly cheap but I have not found a problem with it, it sounds too good to be true.

But its not a scam or rubbish webspace

 

Hope this helps

Ah I get ya! Thanks for explaining that

 

Without just asking them, how do I find out if it is hosted by them directly?

 

And if it's not, then all those issues are avoided and once (or maybe IF!) we get the FTP info we can change the password and be done with them?

 

Additionally, when I start up as a freelancer, I'm just going to get clients to purchase hosting through something like Streamline.net (and talk them through it) then get the FTP details from them. Is this a good way to do things or is it better if I can host them? To be honest I haven't even looked into that side of things yet, I thought Streamline would be ok but now having second thoughts.

 

Thanks for the link too, do you use one.com for your own site or do you somehow host your client sites through it?

 

Thanks for all your help, totally invaluable!

Rachel

Ah I get ya! Thanks for explaining that

 

Without just asking them, how do I find out if it is hosted by them directly?

 

And if it's not, then all those issues are avoided and once (or maybe IF!) we get the FTP info we can change the password and be done with them?

 

Additionally, when I start up as a freelancer, I'm just going to get clients to purchase hosting through something like Streamline.net (and talk them through it) then get the FTP details from them. Is this a good way to do things or is it better if I can host them? To be honest I haven't even looked into that side of things yet, I thought Streamline would be ok but now having second thoughts.

 

Thanks for the link too, do you use one.com for your own site or do you somehow host your client sites through it?

 

Thanks for all your help, totally invaluable!

Rachel

 

I use one.com for http://slyzerdesign.co.uk/

it's unfinished atm tho but not had one problem with the site,

I use webspace for downloads and transferring files aswell it's got really fast ftp.

 

And I'd advise if your freelancing to host the websites, because if your doing pay monthly agreements or getting customers to sign a contract paying over a period of time, you need to watch out because if they have ftp after u've built the site they cud just pay the deposit and take the website and host it themselves then you have no control over the site and a problem on your hands.

And I'd advise if your freelancing to host the websites, because if your doing pay monthly agreements or getting customers to sign a contract paying over a period of time, you need to watch out because if they have ftp after u've built the site they cud just pay the deposit and take the website and host it themselves then you have no control over the site and a problem on your hands.

 

Yeh I see what you mean. I have no idea where to even begin with hosting sites myself so I'd better get doing some research! Any info/links you could provide that would help with this would be gratefully received, but you've already done so much so no sweat.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me with this, really appreciate it

 

Rachel.

Yeh I see what you mean. I have no idea where to even begin with hosting sites myself so I'd better get doing some research! Any info/links you could provide that would help with this would be gratefully received, but you've already done so much so no sweat.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me with this, really appreciate it

 

Rachel.

 

Well I don't really have useful links I self taught all my web space knowledge.

Ftp is pretty straight forward tho.

You have a piece of software, which is like explorer.

All you do is type in details, connect to the ftp space.

Then its just pretty much drag and drop, like you'd do dragging a file from your documents to your desktop

It's that easy.

 

But heres a little more detailed explanation.

 

http://www.ftpplanet.com/ftpresources/basics.htm

Thanks

 

I'm ok with FTP stuff, it's just the web space/web server side of things I'm a little fuzzy on.

 

Thanks for all your help

Rachel

Yeh I see what you mean. I have no idea where to even begin with hosting sites myself so I'd better get doing some research! Any info/links you could provide that would help with this would be gratefully received, but you've already done so much so no sweat.

There are some good threads on these forums about hosting so have a look around...

 

Hosting your own clients sites will require a level of expertise on your behalf, you will need to understand how to set sites up, databases, email and the rest of it. Your clients will have problems which you need to resolve - if you can't it will reflect on you.

 

Avoid "cheap" hosting, in the hosting game you generally get what you pay for. You'll probably see hosts offering things like huge amounts of disk space and "unlimited" this and that - don't go there. These hosts are overselling their services and this can result in sites being slow, excessive downtime and limitations.

 

Use the best hosting service you can afford. The two things to look for are reliability and support. By reliability I mean your sites should be available 24/7 with little or no downtime - if one of your clients sites is down you need to get it back pronto else it will reflect on you. All hosts web servers inevitably suffer some downtime at some point but it's how they deal with problems that makes the men stand out from the boys - a good host will keep you informed of any problems/issues and resolve them quickly. Support is another key factor - good hosts will respond to support tickets quickly and go the extra mile to help you.

Yes I'll definitely have a look around here.

 

Thanks for all the info bluedreamer, I really appreciate the help. Your explanation was fantastic and a massive help!

 

 

Rachel

Just to offer a different opinion Rachel, I always insist that my clients buy their own domain and hosting.

 

1)for situations like the one you have encountered

2)in case they decide to stop paying and I am lumbered with their bill

3)legal issues (if they own the site and anything untoward happens I am removed from the situation somewhat

4)I keep hold of copyright of all content on the site and give them a perpetual license to use it (with a couple of caveats) that way I keep legal ownership of the design elements should they decide to run without paying etc...

 

and once the project is finished I can walk away with both parties happy, unless they want to sign a support contract or come back for me to update it.

 

both ways are fine, just a matter of preference

Hi Calum,

 

I've just been thinking exactly that. I have nowhere near enough knowledge to do anything different at this stage, and the points that you mentioned just swung it for me really. I was just worried about looking unprofessional compared to others, but having looked into it I can see this is not the case so I'm going to stick with my original plan, for the time being anyway.

 

Thanks for your input, big help

Rachel

 

PS - Getting back to the other issue, is there really no way of getting the FTP info other than asking the site creators directly? Seems so unfair on the guy, he's invested many thousands into the project. If anyone has any ideas that'd be great.

Is the site still online? you should try downloading as many of the files as you can see (html / png / css etc) If not you could try using the way back machine or google cache to view copies of the site and save info.

 

Be careful though, it depends on what contract was signed (if any) by your client. They might not in fact own any of the items that they have paid for (and if they don't have a contract at all it would be difficult to prove otherwise) - including code, images etc.

 

A good way to think of this is to think what YOU would do if a client fell out with you. Would you make it easy for them to give your business to a new designer or would you make it hard? without knowing the specifics of the situation I cannot comment, but imagine that you had not been paid for work you had done (just an example, I'm not insinuation anything), would you then hand over the files / ftp information to a new designer.

 

Why is the ftp info so important? Unless he has paid for a dedicated server he will not have to pay much more for a new host (compared with what he has lost on design fees). The domain name can possibly be recovered but that involves a dispute with the registrar (I would definitely just ask them nicely for the domain before going down this route - they might sell it to you as it is now worthless to them I would imagine - again it depends on how bad they feel toward each other).

 

I have a client who this exact situation happened to. We registered a new domain and bought new hosting and I redesigned his site from scratch. A clean break is often the easiest way.

 

Good Luck.

Hi Calum,

 

Yes the site is still online but he no longer wants the current design, he just wants the domain and wants to ensure there's not two websites for the same business (new clients may accidentally arrive onto the old website).

 

Yeah I see what you mean, it's in the creators best interests to protect themselves and their work at all times and I completely understand that. However we do not want any of their work, it can all be scrapped or resold if they wish.

 

The situation is my friend employed them to create his website. He paid around £8000 as it includes CMS and free updates if required (for adding new pics etc). Most required updates can obviously be done using the CMS but my friend just didn't get on with it when it came to images, so decided he'd take advantage of the free updates.

 

All was fine until he emailed them the first update and received no reply. He contacted them several times, no reply to emails, no returned phonecalls etc. When he visited them in person there was no one around to deal with the problem and someone would call him, they didn't. He then decided he was unsatisfied with them in general and wished to terminate the contract. He does not want to keep any code, imagery or design and does not even want the site online, he just wants to keep the URL and have a clean break (he has a lot of money and very little time, anything that takes up too much time in his life is cut out immediately, regardless of any monetary loss!).

 

Therefore, the FTP details aren't what we need directly, all we want is for them to remove the site and give us the domain. The only way I knew of doing this was to get the FTP details and replace the old site files with my new ones, but if there is another way I'd be completely open to that.

 

Basically we need: Old site gone. For us to keep the URL.

 

Grateful for any suggestions or ideas, and thanks so much for your time

Rachel

As soon as you get control of the domain the FTP (host) is irrelevant, you can point it to your new host.

 

If he contacts them and tells them he want the login details for the domain, or it to be transferred to his own name they might do that. From their point of view they are letting go of hassle (that is all it would be for them if they have been paid in full up front), and would surely be happy to do that if they have already been paid.

 

If not then it really comes down to the details in the contract.

 

If they are unwilling to transfer the domain and will not co-operate then you can see where you stand with a laywer. You might also want to contact the domain name registrar. Do a whois

 

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jsp

 

on the domain to find out more and contact the relevant company (nominet for example) for more advice.

 

and 8 grand!!!!!! did they design a custom CMS from scratch, and how large was it? That really is a hell of a lot of money for this sort of thing to be happening. Was he ripped off? If they have used an off the shelf, or open source CMS it seems like an incredibly large amount of money IMO.

How long has it been since the old domain was bought? If it's close to expiry, you may be able to snap it up as long as the people who have it now don't renew it. Far as I know, they usually become available about a month after the official expiry date (eg, if you registered it for the standard 2 years and didn't renew, it could be bought by someone else after 2 years and a month).

 

If I were in the client's shoes, I'd probably write to them (recorded delivery) and say that I was unhappy with the service and that I didn't feel they were fulfilling their end of the deal (basically, the updates). As it was a large amount of money, I can't afford to just say goodbye to it. As an alternative to legal action, I would be willing to call it quits for say £2,000 back and return of the domain. If that wasn't aceptable, I'd see 'em in court.

 

If I were you though, I wouldn't get involved beyond advising your friend. Don't put yourself in a position where it's down to you to get the details..