January 7, 201313 yr Hi all, I have just started learning html/xhtml in the last couple of weeks. I have a design background, not terrifically advanced but have designed many a flyer for bands/gigs, before i decided I wanted to do website design as a career. I believe I have the eye for design, and hope to greatly develop these skills, but for now, it's all about code! I am working through "HTML, XHTML & CSS for dummies", and I am struggling slightly with some of the differences. Any help with this would be absolutely golden. Cheers muchly
January 7, 201313 yr When I was learning I ignored the old HTML and focused on XHTML. I believe the new standard is going to be HTML5. You shouldn't worry about the difference so much right now. You should just immerse yourself in it. My favorite free website for learning this so far is Codecademy because they break it down into easy lessons. I do worry when you say that you have the "eye for design". It's a little like saying you have a "finger for guitar". Haha. If you treat design the same way you would treat learning how to play guitar it will reward you. It's a very serious skill. Not something you "just" know. But welcome to the forums.
January 7, 201313 yr Author Hi mate. Saying "an eye for design", I mean purely in an artistic sense. The technical skills and understanding of how to use tools etc, these are things that I am at a basic level with indeed, I don't consider myself knowledgeable by any means. As far as design goes I will of course assume I know nothing and learn from the start. Design however is what I want to be doing eventually. In response to the guitar analogy, it's common for people to have a natural feel for the instrument, but not to have capitalised on it by practising or learning any theory.... As for code, it's confusing for a newb like myself to not worry about the differences! This book has started me off with html, got me to design a simple page. The main thing bothering me just now is that it did not tell me to insert a DOCTYPE tag, I thought it meant that only xhtml has such a tag but I think this is nonsense?
January 7, 201313 yr You might find it easier to start with HTML5. The doctype is <!DOCTYPE HTML>. Nice and simple. The thing is, there is a lot to learn but try to take it slow at first and don't get too overwhelmed with any single detail. You can learn from your mistakes. The important thing is the get the ball rolling. Edited January 7, 201313 yr by WebsiteWriter
January 7, 201313 yr Don't worry too much about XHTML as it has more or less been deprecated by HTML5. As far as I'm aware, the "for Dummies" books aren't great but I can't say I've ever read one either. The problem people have is that the technology, languages and standards change quite frequently so it's hard to stay on top of it all especially when it comes to the books; there are books on HTML5 but they focus more on HTML5 as a collective of technologies which is what it really is, not just a simple revision of HTML. If you can't find a modern book that teaches HTML as of the 5th major revision, learn from a book that teaches both HTML and XHTML but try not to get into the habbits of html as they are no longer necessary but it's good practice to understand them in my opinion. If you're ever unsure about something then post on the forum and the community here will try to help (if your requests are reasonable of course )
January 7, 201313 yr Author Don't worry too much about XHTML as it has more or less been deprecated by HTML5. As far as I'm aware, the "for Dummies" books aren't great but I can't say I've ever read one either. The problem people have is that the technology, languages and standards change quite frequently so it's hard to stay on top of it all especially when it comes to the books; there are books on HTML5 but they focus more on HTML5 as a collective of technologies which is what it really is, not just a simple revision of HTML. If you can't find a modern book that teaches HTML as of the 5th major revision, learn from a book that teaches both HTML and XHTML but try not to get into the habbits of html as they are no longer necessary but it's good practice to understand them in my opinion. If you're ever unsure about something then post on the forum and the community here will try to help (if your requests are reasonable of course ) Cheers for your feedback mate. The book is good so far, it's pretty up to date although maybe not entirely. It's teaching HTML and XHTML with previews/what to expect from HTML5. I feel so far as if I am taking the relevant info from each section, and not getting hung up on small differences (I hope). The problem I am having is validating documents, the DOCTYPE never seems to be fully accepted, I'm not sure about the meta tag yet either.... I am validating for XHTML 1.0 strict, and attempting to validate the simple HTML examples from the first chapter, although these did not include a DOCTYPE tag for some reason (the section on validating came after.) So yeah still a bit confused! I imagine I will be posting a lot on this forum....
January 7, 201313 yr It can take a long time to master the skills of web design and development, if you ever even master them at all. You're constantly learning, which is fun. If you're serious about it though, I would stay away from the 'For Dummies' books. There are plenty of excellent resources online, some paid some free. I personally advocate Tuts+ Premium for learning about this industry. You also have Linda.com. Once you have a basic grounding in HTML and CSS, start learning about web standards and move on to the latest technologies and techniques, HTML5, CSS3 and Responsive Design. Be prepared to spend lots of time on this and to end the day with lots of headaches and confusion. Be patient and don't worry if you're overwhelmed, it takes time but things will start to come together. Start by looking at the various HTML tags available to you, and get an understanding of what their purpose is. Plan out a demo or learning project, a site you'd like to design or even try and replicate a site you like online. This will give you a full project to focus on while you learn. Use Firebug for Chrome or Firefox to debug your CSS and HTML markup, it will allow you to manipulate your document directly and see the changes instantly, allowing you to experiment. Get a decent grasp of the CSS box model and floats/positioning, and move on from there. Start thinking about mobile, and read lots of tutorials from websites like Smashin Magazine, the Tuts network and A List Apart. Follow and read books by authors and influential designers such as Dan Cederholm, Luke Wroblewski, Jeffrey Zeldman, Paul Boag (excellent podcast at boagworld.com) and Eric Meyer. There's so much to learn and take in, and it's a never ending journey. Remember, the Internet is your friend. Good luck!
January 8, 201313 yr Don't worry too much about XHTML as it has more or less been deprecated by HTML5. As far as I'm aware, the "for Dummies" books aren't great... I definitely do not recommend the "For Dummies" books myself. I do like the Visual Quickstart Guides series. Is HTML5 really being adopted quickly enough to recommend it to beginners as the only version needed? I just worry that it isn't something I see a lot of clients worrying about right now especially when all of their old websites are barely XHTML at this point. I mean, a few months back I was wading through a table based layout nightmare. Edited January 8, 201313 yr by WebsiteWriter
January 8, 201313 yr I definitely do not recommend the "For Dummies" books myself. I do like the Visual Quickstart Guides series. Is HTML5 really being adopted quickly enough to recommend it to beginners as the only version needed? I just worry that it isn't something I see a lot of clients worrying about right now especially when all of their old websites are barely XHTML at this point. I mean, a few months back I was wading through a table based layout nightmare. Probably not but seeing as though XHTML was the previous standard, it's easy to pick up bad habits that may give people trouble when it comes to validating or may just simply confuse them. It's hard to stay on top of the latest technologies but the reason it's so difficult at this current stage is that most recent books and learning resources are focussed on XHTML. As for its adoption rate, it is quite quick, especially for websites that want to include web applications; but as I said, it depends on the availability of decent learning resource that focuses on HTML5 whilst assuming that the reader has no prior knowledge of older revisions of the language.
January 8, 201313 yr I'm not sure you guys have grasped the concept of what HTML5 is exactly. The previous revision of HTML is not deprecated by any means. HTML as a language is still very valid, yes some older tags (very few) may be deprecated but the language is not, in fact since HTML5 there is no longer a need to mark features as deprecated. HTML5 at a basic level simply adds extra tags to the language (such as section, header, footer, nav) to give the document more semantic meaning and to structure content better, it also adds a new document type and various form and graphics controls. Previous revisions of HTML are still valid, it's not like it's a completely different language, you still need to know HTML. I would always recommend that beginners learn HTML5, it's the future of the language and they should be using the latest techniques and technologies. Also, you'd be surprised how much HTML5 and CSS3 has been adopted by both the industry and clients. Edited January 8, 201313 yr by Gareth Daine
January 8, 201313 yr You may want to also add that the term HTML5 is more oftenly used to describe a collection of technologies - the 5th revision of HTML, CSS3 and Javascript APIs.
January 8, 201313 yr My opinion regarding the XHTML vs HTML5 would be; learn XHTML and then write XHTML style HTML5 under the HTML5 doctype. Correct capitalisation, quoting of attributes, closing of tags should all just be good practice.
January 8, 201313 yr My opinion regarding the XHTML vs HTML5 would be; learn XHTML and then write XHTML style HTML5 under the HTML5 doctype. Correct capitalisation, quoting of attributes, closing of tags should all just be good practice. Obviously, best practices and web standards that have been developed in earlier interations should be ahdered to. That's one of the bugbears I have with HTML5. It now allows you to code withought following the standard coding best practices we're all used to. I wish they would change that. Edited January 8, 201313 yr by Gareth Daine
January 8, 201313 yr Probably not but seeing as though XHTML was the previous standard, it's easy to pick up bad habits that may give people trouble when it comes to validating or may just simply confuse them. It's hard to stay on top of the latest technologies but the reason it's so difficult at this current stage is that most recent books and learning resources are focussed on XHTML. As for its adoption rate, it is quite quick, especially for websites that want to include web applications; but as I said, it depends on the availability of decent learning resource that focuses on HTML5 whilst assuming that the reader has no prior knowledge of older revisions of the language. Have to admit that I myself get confused by some of the differences between HTML, XHTML, and HTML5. I tend to stick to XHTML for most my own projects just because I am familliar with it. But I like how HTML5 has simplified some things like Doctypes. Thank you, for your reply. I just wasn't sure if I should be recommending HTML 5 yet. I find that for the most part my clients are the kind of people ho don't even know what HTML is much less HTML5 and their websites are ancient in Internet years. I cringe every time I am called in to upload new text to table based layouts because my clients somehow think that I should be able to control the exact whitespace and linespacing in their outdated website. I wish they would all use HTML5 for markup and stylesheets for styling. It would make my life much easier. I'm thinking of not even touching HTML at all anymore for clients. They can hire somebody to do that. Edited January 8, 201313 yr by WebsiteWriter
January 8, 201313 yr Author Thanks for all the feedback, I found it very interesting, unfortunately I am still left confused as to which type to pursue chiefly! I am going to press on with what I am doing for now. I am sure i will talk to many of you very often on here regarding such things
January 9, 201313 yr Have to admit that I myself get confused by some of the differences between HTML, XHTML, and HTML5. I tend to stick to XHTML for most my own projects just because I am familliar with it. But I like how HTML5 has simplified some things like Doctypes. Thank you, for your reply. I just wasn't sure if I should be recommending HTML 5 yet. I find that for the most part my clients are the kind of people ho don't even know what HTML is much less HTML5 and their websites are ancient in Internet years. I cringe every time I am called in to upload new text to table based layouts because my clients somehow think that I should be able to control the exact whitespace and linespacing in their outdated website. I wish they would all use HTML5 for markup and stylesheets for styling. It would make my life much easier. I'm thinking of not even touching HTML at all anymore for clients. They can hire somebody to do that. I'll do it! I need the money!
January 9, 201313 yr I'll do it! I need the money! Haha, well maybe the next time a client wants copy uploaded to their ancient HTML Table-Based nightmare I'll send you a private message and work something out with you? Man, I swear, some days I wish I would never see a table again.
January 9, 201313 yr Haha, well maybe the next time a client wants copy uploaded to their ancient HTML Table-Based nightmare I'll send you a private message and work something out with you? Man, I swear, some days I wish I would never see a table again. Sounds good to me! I don't even see the world anymore, just the code..... (apologies to any Matrix fans out there for that one...)
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