Hi,

Got a slight dilema and could do with some info from anyone in the know.

 

I am currently at university studying electronic engineering but after spending almost a year doing it, i've decided it's not what i want to do.

I am also self-employed and run my own web design business as my income for university however, i have since decided that i want to pursue a career in web design permanently and so would like to do something about it.

 

My question is, if i left university to pursue web design, do I:

 

1. Stay freelance (the income isn't as consistent as i'd like atm)

2. Persuade a different university (i wouldn't go back to the one i'm currently at) to take me on to a higher level web design course based on my portfolio and the fact i run a business.

3. Don't go to university and apply for a job.

4. Is there a 4th option?

 

If it is possible to persuade a university to take me onto a higher level than normal due to my experience, if this is even possible, what course would be good to do? Does anyone know of a list i can see that isn't foundation or first year but is higher, anywhere online?

 

Jobs are scarce so i figured, staying in education would enable me to get a qualification in web design and then when i emerge from university, be able to use that to get a job providing the economy has picked up by then.

 

Are there any other options?

 

Any help/advice/input with my dilemma would be very much appreciated!

 

Many thanks,

-Jack

Hi Jack,

 

Sorry to hear that the uni course didn't work out. This has happened to a few people I know too.

 

I'm not sure whether persuading another uni to take you on based on your current experience would work. It may be worth a try though. I guess it depends whether you want to stay in a learning / tutored environment or whether you prefer working. Only you will know the answer to that one.

 

If I was in your situation I would stay freelance if I had enough work coming in or would look for a job if not. I'm sure there are companies out there looking to employ people. Hell I could probably even pass a few designs your way!

You’re in a tricky position.

 

I would say firstly, that if you’re not happy in your current choice of course, you need to work out why and be sure you’re clear as to your reasons, secondly quit the course until you have a clear plan of what to do next... so you seem to be doing the right thing asking for some opinion / advice.

 

So looking at your options.

 

1. Freelancing

I think you will find this tough going without either going through formal education of a related subject or working for a company in the industry. Although you have your own business I would think that the type of clients you will be able to appeal to will be initially limited, and I get the feeling your quite an ambitious guy, you may get frustrated. 10 years ago when the industry was still relatively new being able to freelance was much much easier... as the industry is maturing, clients are expecting more for less and faster. I’m not saying you are not capable but personally in your shoes I wouldn’t go this route. Other things to boost your income could be reselling hosting / email or other services such as email campaigns.

 

2. Joining a different course at a higher level

Unlikely to be honest, but you should contact the administration departments of courses you are interested and see if you can talk to the course leader... they can advise. Unfortunately although you do run a business, I don’t think that will help you much.

 

3. Leave Uni and get a job

You will probably learn a lot more usable skills in a good company than you will at university in my opinion. That said university will make you more aware of the history / psychology / culture of design etc that you don’t always have the luxury to go back and learn when your working full time. These areas are not to be sniffed at, and played down they are in the back of my mind all the time when working on projects.

 

Other benefits of getting a job in my mind are that you’ll be able to focus on certain areas, rather than trying to juggle everything yourself.

 

When things go wrong... and they can do, its not just on your head.

 

You have the experience of other team members to refer to, which is often invaluable.

 

There are often company perks, such as courses, events etc...

 

And hopefully at the end of the month you know financially where you are...

 

Perhaps not as ambitious as being a freelancer but if you use your time well can be equally as productive.

 

4. Part-time study / Shorter courses / Internships

Have you thought about studying part time... so you get the qualification you would like, whilst either freelancing or working part-time for a company?

 

If I known what I know now I think I would have done an HND over a degree...at least from my experience... I am suited to high intensity courses, I found my degrees to quiet... whereas my observations of the HND’s indicated much much denser study. You then have the option to do a top up to make it a degree.

 

I sent you a link to Mark Boultons job opportunity in Wales...yes thats right Wales but a job like that, with someone quite high profile could really make your future. Anywhere that is really really keen to help someone starting out(ish) should not be taken for granted.

 

Well I hope all that is food for thought. You should really contact a few more freelancers of standing and ask them how they are getting on and how they started... and also identify companies you think you would like to work for... then approach them directly and ask what the deal is in terms of recruitment etc.

 

N.B - As for the previous comment about experience being more valuable than a piece of paper I agree to a point, but as you start to go after bigger clients you'll be amazed of the hoops you often have to go through to get the work... quite often qualifications are asked for and taken into considerations.

 

All the best with your decision.

Some proper experience freelancing is worth more than a piece of paper.

 

Is that personal experience and knowledge or just opinion?

I'm curious...

You're in a tricky position.

 

I would say firstly, that if you're not happy in your current choice of course, you need to work out why and be sure you're clear as to your reasons, secondly quit the course until you have a clear plan of what to do next... so you seem to be doing the right thing asking for some opinion / advice.

 

So looking at your options.

 

1. Freelancing

I think you will find this tough going without either going through formal education of a related subject or working for a company in the industry. Although you have your own business I would think that the type of clients you will be able to appeal to will be initially limited, and I get the feeling your quite an ambitious guy, you may get frustrated. 10 years ago when the industry was still relatively new being able to freelance was much much easier... as the industry is maturing, clients are expecting more for less and faster. I'm not saying you are not capable but personally in your shoes I wouldn't go this route. Other things to boost your income could be reselling hosting / email or other services such as email campaigns.

 

2. Joining a different course at a higher level

Unlikely to be honest, but you should contact the administration departments of courses you are interested and see if you can talk to the course leader... they can advise. Unfortunately although you do run a business, I don't think that will help you much.

 

3. Leave Uni and get a job

You will probably learn a lot more usable skills in a good company than you will at university in my opinion. That said university will make you more aware of the history / psychology / culture of design etc that you don't always have the luxury to go back and learn when your working full time. These areas are not to be sniffed at, and played down they are in the back of my mind all the time when working on projects.

 

Other benefits of getting a job in my mind are that you'll be able to focus on certain areas, rather than trying to juggle everything yourself.

 

When things go wrong... and they can do, its not just on your head.

 

You have the experience of other team members to refer to, which is often invaluable.

 

There are often company perks, such as courses, events etc...

 

And hopefully at the end of the month you know financially where you are...

 

Perhaps not as ambitious as being a freelancer but if you use your time well can be equally as productive.

 

4. Part-time study / Shorter courses / Internships

Have you thought about studying part time... so you get the qualification you would like, whilst either freelancing or working part-time for a company?

 

If I known what I know now I think I would have done an HND over a degree...at least from my experience... I am suited to high intensity courses, I found my degrees to quiet... whereas my observations of the HND's indicated much much denser study. You then have the option to do a top up to make it a degree.

 

I sent you a link to Mark Boultons job opportunity in Wales...yes thats right Wales but a job like that, with someone quite high profile could really make your future. Anywhere that is really really keen to help someone starting out(ish) should not be taken for granted.

 

Well I hope all that is food for thought. You should really contact a few more freelancers of standing and ask them how they are getting on and how they started... and also identify companies you think you would like to work for... then approach them directly and ask what the deal is in terms of recruitment etc.

 

N.B - As for the previous comment about experience being more valuable than a piece of paper I agree to a point, but as you start to go after bigger clients you'll be amazed of the hoops you often have to go through to get the work... quite often qualifications are asked for and taken into considerations.

 

All the best with your decision.

 

 

Hi Richard,

 

Thank you very much for your very detailed reply. I too agree that HNDs are denser studies than Degrees (i'm about to withdraw from an HND in electronic engineering).

I have studied Maths just a few years ago at the OpenUniversity and they were just amazing. They do have web design related studies too. I would have to do about 5 modules to get an HND i think. Do you think employers would look poorly on an OpenUniversity HND/degree and would prefer a candidate that had been to a regular physical university?

 

This course looks interesting: http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/qualification/c39.htm - I might be up to that level now based on my experience of computers/web design and understanding of how the University level systems now work. I was an IT Administrator before i did web design but that's definitely not something i want to go into.

 

As much as i love the idea of the Mark Boulton thing, i think it's highly unlikely i'd get the position. Plus my partner is doing an NVQ here at the moment for a year to 18 months and so can't relocate anywhere for that amount of time. Moving is something we would like to do though - move to where the action is!

 

Thank you for all the comments so far. They are all being taken into consideration

-Jack

 

 

I did a BSc hons in Web Design & Development, a bit of a waste of time really. We learned stuff like midi background music, VML and java applets. It was about 3 years behind the industry and I think thats always going to be the case with this kind of specific course. I think you're better doing plain computer science (if you want to be a developer) or graphic design/art (if you want to be a designer).

 

If I were you, I'd try really hard to pick up a job or some kind of internship. Commercial experience is way more valuable that a degree.

 

Edit: Also of the people who I still keep in touch with from uni, nobody bar me is working in web dev/design.

Edited March 10, 201115 yr by Jock

I did a BSc hons in Web Design & Development, a bit of a waste of time really. We learned stuff like midi background music, VML and java applets. It was about 3 years behind the industry and I think thats always going to be the case with this kind of specific course. I think you're better doing plain computer science (if you want to be a developer) or graphic design/art (if you want to be a designer).

 

If I were you, I'd try really hard to pick up a job or some kind of internship. Commercial experience is way more valuable that a degree.

 

Hi Jock,

 

Thanks. I beginning to totally agree about the commercial experience part.

Unfortunately, i can't move for a year to 18 months at the moment and i'm stuck in a bit of a hole when it comes to internships/apprenticeships. Salisbury seems to have a black spot around it until you get to around 50 miles way - i.e. somewhere like Bath - and is notorious for not EVER having anything like that.

 

What do you think about the OpenUniversity, study in your own time style course. Do you think it would be more up-to-date?

 

-Jack

Hi Jock,

 

Thanks. I beginning to totally agree about the commercial experience part.

Unfortunately, i can't move for a year to 18 months at the moment and i'm stuck in a bit of a hole when it comes to internships/apprenticeships. Salisbury seems to have a black spot around it until you get to around 50 miles way - i.e. somewhere like Bath - and is notorious for not EVER having anything like that.

 

What do you think about the OpenUniversity, study in your own time style course. Do you think it would be more up-to-date?

 

-Jack

 

Depends really, do you want to be a designer or a developer? Design is something you cant really teach if you know what I mean, if you want to be a developer then I'd suggest an industry certification like a MCTS for .NET or ZCE for PHP, etc. If I was going to hire a PHP developer and they were a ZCE then they'd be highly more favorable to me than someone with an OU degree.

Depends really, do you want to be a designer or a developer? Design is something you cant really teach if you know what I mean, if you want to be a developer then I'd suggest an industry certification like a MCTS for .NET or ZCE for PHP, etc. If I was going to hire a PHP developer and they were a ZCE then they'd be highly more favorable to me than someone with an OU degree.

 

Ok. Interesting. I do like development but I also like design. At the same time, i can find it difficult to get into design mode but incredibly easy to jump straight into some code. At the same time, designing a bit and looking at some colour is a nice way to break up just staring at code for the whole day. Tricky stuff. Ultimately it sounds like i'm more leaning towards development but how can i not get drawn into just staring at code all day - i could definitely just stare at code all day but do i really want to? Does anybody?

 

How can i incorporate both?

A front-end developer will usually do a bit of design and a bit of development. Its kind of a dogsbody role and if you land a front-end development job in a large company you're probably going to end up the middle man between the designers and the developers so you have very little creative input and looked down upon by the back-end developer and the designer.

 

I don't know how exactly you would train for this job, I still cant see uni helping... I guess some artistic flair in the form of a portfolio and some freelance development experience might clinch a junior position. A junior job would be great for experience because you might be able to work with the designer and pair program with the back end developer so you can hone your skills in both disciplines.

I have been reading this thread, and just looked into my local uni to see what courses they do.. I really want to jump on one but dont think i will be accepted.

 

Is their a chance i can get to do this: http://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate-course/computer-science-2011/ or somethign similar

 

I got no ucas points, just GCSES (maths + english), a lvl 2 junior web design diploma, 6 months web development exspirence in a job placement

 

sorry to hijack the thread !

Edited March 10, 201115 yr by kingy da killa

Ok. Interesting. I do like development but I also like design. At the same time, i can find it difficult to get into design mode but incredibly easy to jump straight into some code. At the same time, designing a bit and looking at some colour is a nice way to break up just staring at code for the whole day. Tricky stuff. Ultimately it sounds like i'm more leaning towards development but how can i not get drawn into just staring at code all day - i could definitely just stare at code all day but do i really want to? Does anybody?

 

How can i incorporate both?

 

If you want to do both, you'll probably have to either freelance or work for a small, informal studio with no designer/developer segregation.

 

Going back to the uni thing, the only thing I can see that's relevant and will stay that way is pure Computer Science - yes, you'll learn stuff in specific labnguages but it can be transitioned to other languages, it's the principles that are the important bit. I had to teach myself stuff like MVC, and coming from a procedural spaghetti PHP background with no formal training it was rough - I knew it sounded like a good idea but I didn't know why, so I had to do a bunch of research to give me the necessary background. In a uni course you'd cover design patterns and have the info given to you on a plate with all the irrelevant scurf stripped out.

I have been reading this thread, and just looked into my local uni to see what courses they do.. I really want to jump on one but dont think i will be accepted.

 

Is their a chance i can get to do this: http://www.kingston....r-science-2011/ or somethign similar

 

I got no ucas points, just GCSES (maths + english), a lvl 2 junior web design diploma, 6 months web development exspirence in a job placement

 

sorry to hijack the thread !

 

I managed to get on my Electronic Engineering HND course by taking OpenMathematics MU120 (now called MU123 i think).

Ultimately, one major reason i'm not staying is the Maths is too difficult. MU120 re-taught me GCSE Maths (which I passed originally anyway) with a bit of AS Level mixed in but it wasn't enough and my course is now up to teaching University level Mathematics and i've ben totally left behind.

 

I knew that if i didn't do Electronic Engineering, i would have done Computer Science. My advice though is don't go into it without A level Maths. You will do yourself a massive favour by doing a foundation year in Maths & Electronics or Maths & Science or doing an Edexcel or OpenUniveristy course in A-level Maths.

I have been reading this thread, and just looked into my local uni to see what courses they do.. I really want to jump on one but dont think i will be accepted.

 

Is their a chance i can get to do this: http://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate-course/computer-science-2011/ or somethign similar

 

I got no ucas points, just GCSES (maths + english), a lvl 2 junior web design diploma, 6 months web development exspirence in a job placement

 

sorry to hijack the thread !

 

Just contact them and see if you would get accepted. Sometimes they make special course clearing arrangements if they have spaces left. I got clearing entry into an HND and then clearing entry to a degree and didn't have any Highers (Scottish A Levels), only got standard grade (GCSE's) English, Maths, Gàidhlig, Computing, Physics, Chemistry, Craft & Design.

I managed to get on my Electronic Engineering HND course by taking OpenMathematics MU120 (now called MU123 i think). Ultimately, one major reason i'm not staying is the Maths is too difficult. MU120 re-taught me GCSE Maths (which I passed originally anyway) with a bit of AS Level mixed in but it wasn't enough and my course is now up to teaching University level Mathematics and i've ben totally left behind. I knew that if i didn't do Electronic Engineering, i would have done Computer Science. My advice though is don't go into it without A level Maths. You will do yourself a massive favour by doing a foundation year in Maths & Electronics or Maths & Science or doing an Edexcel or OpenUniveristy course in A-level Maths.

 

So bassicaly getting on a foundation course for maths for the first year will help me get onto my course?

 

Just contact them and see if you would get accepted. Sometimes they make special course clearing arrangements if they have spaces left. I got clearing entry into an HND and then clearing entry to a degree and didn't have any Highers (Scottish A Levels), only got standard grade (GCSE's) English, Maths, Gàidhlig, Computing, Physics, Chemistry, Craft & Design.

 

Thats given me hope to getting in to uni without alevels then So I take it my best bet is to contact to them hope their spaces left and hope they let me on, and if there being annoying ask to get on a foudantion course for a year to get a placement the year afterwards for a course i wanted to do

 

thanks both!

Edited March 10, 201115 yr by kingy da killa

So bassicaly getting on a foundation course for maths for the first year will help me get onto my course?

 

 

 

Thats given me hope to getting in to uni without alevels then So I take it my best bet is to contact to them hope their spaces left and hope they let me on, and if there being annoying ask to get on a foudantion course for a year to get a placement the year afterwards for a course i wanted to do

 

thanks both!

 

 

It will yes but what i was saying is that you will find it much easier by doing A-levels before you go. At least that's what i think. I was so pleased to be allowed onto my HND without having to take A-levels. When i got there, i wish i had taken A-levels almost immediately. I thought i could catch up and ultimately, after being sure it was what i wanted to do for 2 whole years, after the first year at uni, the Maths amongst other things has made me think twice and now i feel back to square one.

 

Not sure what the requirements for Computer Science are but if you can't do/don't know what complex numbers are, you need to do A-level maths.

It will yes but what i was saying is that you will find it much easier by doing A-levels before you go. At least that's what i think. I was so pleased to be allowed onto my HND without having to take A-levels. When i got there, i wish i had taken A-levels almost immediately. I thought i could catch up and ultimately, after being sure it was what i wanted to do for 2 whole years, after the first year at uni, the Maths amongst other things has made me think twice and now i feel back to square one.

 

Not sure what the requirements for Computer Science are but if you can't do/don't know what complex numbers are, you need to do A-level maths.

 

Ok cheers for that i understand fully now, ill definately think about home coursing a-level maths then before thinking of heading to uni. cheers

If you think you'll struggle with maths then try taking a look over this MIT openware module - http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-042j-mathematics-for-computer-science-spring-2010/index.htm

 

It should give you a good idea of what to expect. Although I think MIT might be a bit more advanced than Kingston uni, and it doesn't explicitly mention maths on the course syllabus. I didn't have any problem with maths at uni or college and I didn't have A Level maths, although I'm extremely nerdy

If you think you'll struggle with maths then try taking a look over this MIT openware module - http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-042j-mathematics-for-computer-science-spring-2010/index.htm

 

It should give you a good idea of what to expect. Although I think MIT might be a bit more advanced than Kingston uni, and it doesn't explicitly mention maths on the course syllabus. I didn't have any problem with maths at uni or college and I didn't have A Level maths, although I'm extremely nerdy

 

so I could do that course at home and it would help me get into uni? I had a little look through it looks decent enough and i shouldent have a problem with the maths (even though im prob not as nerdy as you!), i find maths quite fun, english is a different story thou. I cant seem to find a price for it?

Those courses are free, theres no formal qualification for them and they're not marked. Basically its just letting you see the lecture notes, questions, etc. everything that you would get while on the course at MIT except getting it marked and a qualification. Not really much use other than for personal advancement but it lets you see what another uni teaches for a specific module.

Those courses are free, theres no formal qualification for them and they're not marked. Basically its just letting you see the lecture notes, questions, etc. everything that you would get while on the course at MIT except getting it marked and a qualification. Not really much use other than for personal advancement but it lets you see what another uni teaches for a specific module.

 

ok i understand now, its to give me a taste of what a uni course would be like ! well before i seruisly think aobut trying to get in i will having a crack.

 

thanks

NP, these lectures are cool too, will give you a taste of computer science -

he gets rick rolled on #41 xD

Edited March 10, 201115 yr by Jock

NP, these lectures are cool too, will give you a taste of computer science -

he gets rick rolled on #41 xD

 

ok thanks for the info

 

lol @ the rickroll

 

wow the comments on that video!

 

===========================================================

 

People call me a geek all the time. Why? Because I enjoy writing code, and I think mathematics is beautiful.

 

There is a definitely a sexy elegance behind a well structured equation. Will other people understand that? Hell no. Do I expect them to? Hell no. I'm not a computer science major because I want to get rich. I'm a CS major because it is my passion.

Islandfad 1 year ago 138

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ShareRemoveFlag for spamBlock UserUnblock UserAmen. I LOVE the feeling I get when I solve a problem in my sleep at 2 in the morning, go out to my computer, slam down some code, and bask the glowing screen in the dark room in wonder, and not being able to sleep after.

GaseousAnomaly001 1 year ago 83

Edited March 10, 201115 yr by kingy da killa

I agree with Jock on the direction of courses you should take if you go back to the education route.

 

Learning a pure course such as computer science or graphic design will be more valuable than a hybridised style course that tries to teach you both. As he rightly mentioned most web design based courses tend to be way behind the curve (and some design courses can be a little old fashioned). I've always thought it's a shame you cant get the money that the government would have contributed to your education and instead use it on selected specialised courses run by core industry specialists.

 

And Rallport is right about employer interests (excluding perhaps larger creative agencies such as Wielden + Kennedy) most don't care on your qualifications if you are able to demonstrate that you have the skills to do the job in hand. How you will be asked to show that can vary on the company, some will look through your portfolio and analyse the code.. others will set you a specific task in a certain time frame. I think this is because most companies in this industry are surprisingly small, the average being something like 6... I know its smaller than my company's headcount which is 10.

 

The main time my qualifications come up is when my company has gone through an application for a tender for say a very large or government company. Everyone in the company has to outline their qualifications etc.

 

From the sound of it your main problem is location as it sounds like its limiting your choices, logically if jobs are very thin on the ground, freelancing maybe your best bet without commuting 50 miles or so to a larger town/city... (that said I drive 67 miles one way to work around the M25 so sometimes you have to do stuff like that).

 

Personally i still say try to get into a business (as good as you can find) approach any company whether they are advertising or not and say you want to work for them and why.

Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone that replied to this thread and who helped me to make a decision.

I have written a short blog post about what happened and what i plan to do which you can read should you wish to here. Although vague, i'm sure it will be the basis of my life for the next few years.

 

Thank you to all once again.

-Jack