Web design is now beginning to upset me

 

Ive spent countless hours looking at designing then redesigning a website but can never get it right. The look never seems to be what a professional site should look like. Ive got a great idea and in my head know what it should look like but it never feels right

 

Im not really sure what kind of help im asking for to be honest, maybe Im just here to vent.

 

I found a site today

 

Phodder.com"]

 

and if think this is what I now want it to look like (although this is completley different from all previous designs.

 

This type of site should be easy to do right?

 

Any advise on what you would do to start this

 

What pixel height would you say the header is too?

 

how would space out the content like this?

 

Ive tried running before I could even crawl with webdesign and development having bought and read a book on PHP. Now I really need to go back and learn the basics. CSS Layout stumps me a little, no, a lot. The basics are fine but when it comes to laying out a page it never works especially when overlapping things (Like that twitter icon at the footer)

 

I know this was a lot of rambling but pointers would be grrreat and may even save my marriage.

 

 

Thanks

Adam

Hi Adam,

 

I'm exactly the same with design! In my experience, very few people can be truly talented in both design and coding, if you are struggling with the design side, then it's probably just that it's not your forte. Anything I design looks horrible and amateurish, so I just steer clear of it and let those who have the skills in design cover that side. Myself, I just stick solely to the coding because I know whats what I'm good at.

 

I think it would probably help you to decide on one or the other and then just concentrate on that, otherwise you are just going to continue to frustrate your self because you never become very accomplished at either.

div#headerContainer {
background: url(/static/phodder/images/phodderHeader1024.png) no-repeat;
max-width: 1024px;
min-width: 800px;
height: 240px;
}

 

Know what you mean - always looks so good in my head then just looks a bit cheap when i try to write/design it! I'm finding I'm making the most progress from looking at as many other sites as possible and if I like something i try to recreate it.

 

Hope it helps

 

Jason

Hi Adam,

 

I'm exactly the same with design! In my experience, very few people can be truly talented in both design and coding, if you are struggling with the design side, then it's probably just that it's not your forte. Anything I design looks horrible and amateurish, so I just steer clear of it and let those who have the skills in design cover that side. Myself, I just stick solely to the coding because I know whats what I'm good at.

 

I think it would probably help you to decide on one or the other and then just concentrate on that, otherwise you are just going to continue to frustrate your self because you never become very accomplished at either.

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Are you suggesting that I pay someone to design the site. That would alieviate a lot of stress. How much would you expect to pay for a site like the one above?

 

When you say about coding, do you refer to the CSS layout side you if it too?

div#headerContainer {
background: url(/static/phodder/images/phodderHeader1024.png) no-repeat;
max-width: 1024px;
min-width: 800px;
height: 240px;
}

 

Know what you mean - always looks so good in my head then just looks a bit cheap when i try to write/design it! I'm finding I'm making the most progress from looking at as many other sites as possible and if I like something i try to recreate it.

 

Hope it helps

 

Jason

 

A friend of mine who's a SEO consultant said to me 'Forget what the site looks like and just get it out there. No one really remembers what the site designs really like just what service your providing.'

 

I should listen to him really.

 

I never thought of saving an image file sith the image size in the name. That could save a lot of messing about

 

Also, how did you pull that information out of the page?

 

Thanks

Right click on the page and select view source. The at the top find the css file (it will be a link), and click it. You will have to find the specific class or id but if you are using firefox you can highlight the area of the page you want the code for then right click and select 'view selected source' and that should narrow down the HTML so you can see the div and it's class/id.

 

Hope it helps.

A friend of mine who's a SEO consultant said to me 'Forget what the site looks like and just get it out there. No one really remembers what the site designs really like just what service your providing.'

 

I should listen to him really.

 

 

Thanks

 

Its all very well getting people to your website but if you want to keep them there then it needs to be well designed and easy to navigate if not people will go elsewhere IMHO.

Right click on the page and select view source. The at the top find the css file (it will be a link), and click it. You will have to find the specific class or id but if you are using firefox you can highlight the area of the page you want the code for then right click and select 'view selected source' and that should narrow down the HTML so you can see the div and it's class/id.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Thanks! +1

Its all very well getting people to your website but if you want to keep them there then it needs to be well designed and easy to navigate if not people will go elsewhere IMHO.

 

Yeah I agree but I think the point was get it out there before someone else does then tinker about with it

Ah fair enough thanks for the +1 bud!

I would certainly disagree with your friend to be honest. People absolutely remember the design of a website and it has a huge influence on the reaction they have to the site. Say you land on an ecommerce site and it just looks horrible, badly designed and amateurish, would you buy any products from there? I know I certainly would not, I would be straight off to the next site. Personally, I think there is little point getting a site out there early if it's not going to have the desired affect because it's incomplete, better to finish it with some polish and make sure it is doing the job it's meant to and then get it out there. So take your time, no-one will miss the launch if it's a little late.

 

As for my reply from earlier, if you think your skill is going to be in coding, then yes maybe it would be worth your while getting someone to design your site for you, alternatively you may have a friend who can do it as a favour? In terms of cost, well it varies from designer to designer depending on experience, the quality of work you receive and how many projects the designer has under their belt to show their position in the marketplace. For a good designer in the professional market place we would be talking hundreds of pounds which might sounds a lot, but bear in mind you will get what you pay for. If you go with someone who has a proven track record and work out there that you like, then yes it might be expensive but you will get a great product at the end of the day.

 

When I talk about coding, well as a basis in web development, that includes HTML and CSS, but realistically few people are looking for something as simplistic as you could create with just those two tools. You certainly would need to learn Javascript as a minimum, and then it would be a good idea to get to grips with some server side tools like PHP and MySQL. You could do a lot worse than having a toolset with these 5 skills, I certainly find there is enough work out there to keep me going.

Can you point us in the direction of any good tutorials for javascript, PHP & MySQL to get us started husseycoding?

Getting started can seem a bit daunting at first, but if you stick at it you will definitely get there. As for where to go to do that, well one site I have found very useful myself over time is w3schools.com, they have very extensive and well written documentation on there including introductions. You can find the javascript introduction here:

 

http://www.w3schools.com/js/js_intro.asp

 

and the PHP introduction here:

 

http://www.w3schools.com/php/php_intro.asp

 

Personally I would suggest you leave PHP until you feel fairly competent at Javascript mainly for two reasons, firstly I think you will find there is a fair amount of assumed Javascript knowledge in PHP teaching material, and secondly, you may get to the point where you just feel a bit overwhelmed and like you are not making any real progress in either if you take on 2 languages at once.

 

After you have had at look at some introductory material, then for me the best way to learn is to just to set yourself a project in the language, nothing too grand, just think of something you want to try and achieve. Start coding with what you know and then research the rest as you go, there are endless forums and websites will all kinds of questions and solutions for every conceivable programming problem someone has tried to solve, so if you search for specifics you will always find an answer in the end. Once you have managed to complete that project you have set yourself, hopefully you will feel like the ball is starting to roll, just keep it going and before you know it you will suddenly think, actually, this isn't so hard and I'm getting pretty decent at it.

 

Least thats the way that works for me when I'm learning a new language

Getting started can seem a bit daunting at first, but if you stick at it you will definitely get there. As for where to go to do that, well one site I have found very useful myself over time is w3schools.com, they have very extensive and well written documentation on there including introductions. You can find the javascript introduction here:

 

http://www.w3schools.com/js/js_intro.asp

 

and the PHP introduction here:

 

http://www.w3schools.com/php/php_intro.asp

 

Personally I would suggest you leave PHP until you feel fairly competent at Javascript mainly for two reasons, firstly I think you will find there is a fair amount of assumed Javascript knowledge in PHP teaching material, and secondly, you may get to the point where you just feel a bit overwhelmed and like you are not making any real progress in either if you take on 2 languages at once.

 

After you have had at look at some introductory material, then for me the best way to learn is to just to set yourself a project in the language, nothing too grand, just think of something you want to try and achieve. Start coding with what you know and then research the rest as you go, there are endless forums and websites will all kinds of questions and solutions for every conceivable programming problem someone has tried to solve, so if you search for specifics you will always find an answer in the end. Once you have managed to complete that project you have set yourself, hopefully you will feel like the ball is starting to roll, just keep it going and before you know it you will suddenly think, actually, this isn't so hard and I'm getting pretty decent at it.

 

Least thats the way that works for me when I'm learning a new language

 

Thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed response.

 

well like a said before I leapt into a PHP book and did feel a little over my head, so Im going to go back to the basic and stop assming I know it all. Just dedicating a week or two to HTML and CSS would probably help me no end.

 

As far as the design side goes, Im going to persevere for a while. I don't think its beyond me just got pinch more ideas from other skilled designers

 

I suppose a good idea is posting progress and ideas i the forum for feedback.