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Client loses their website, what do you do?


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#1 justint

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:14 PM

Hi all

 

In my terms of engagement, I tell my clients that the hosting is their responsibility.

 

This week one of my clients has failed to pay their hosting and had their site deleted.

 

I never keep backups of my clients' websites.

 

I doubt very much this client ever saw the terms of engagement.

 

What do you do in this situation? Do you keep backups of all your clients websites?

 

Have I cocked up by not calling their attention to the terms in the first place?

 

Thanks for any help.



#2 NOCK

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:21 PM

Hi all
 
In my terms of engagement, I tell my clients that the hosting is their responsibility.
 
This week one of my clients has failed to pay their hosting and had their site deleted.
 
I never keep backups of my clients' websites.
 
I doubt very much this client ever saw the terms of engagement.
 
What do you do in this situation? Do you keep backups of all your clients websites?
 
Have I cocked up by not calling their attention to the terms in the first place?
 
Thanks for any help.

 
I have backups of all my client's websites and so does GitLab / BitBucket. They're also backed up on a 4TB TimeMachine disk just in-case.

Edited by NOCK, 14 March 2017 - 10:22 PM.


#3 justint

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:38 PM

Oh yes. I'll try that for the future, ta



#4 rbrtsmith

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:38 PM

Have you not been using Git?



#5 Jack

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:41 PM

We use BitBucket for source control, but that doesn't cover the database or library uploads. For that, we've got a good backup solution that backs up daily and lets us create a snapshot anytime and rollback to previous versions. The previous company I worked at had a terrible backup solution and I never felt confident that I could use it in an emergency. It's definitely worth running your own if you plan on hosting sites, and one that you can administer yourself rather than having to wait for a support ticket.

 

If you're not prepared to host a client site, then you need the terms of your hosting agreement laid out. Something like this becomes a nightmare because a client will generally assume you create backups for them.



#6 nublue

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:36 PM

Deleting a website for an unpaid invoice within a week is harsh, it should be a last resort. Are they sure it's been deleted and not just suspended to nudge them into paying?



#7 rallport

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 11:41 AM

Surely at least the base site minus assets would be backup up automatically on Git/Bitbucket? It should be a case that you just pull down the repo. again.

 

If you're using a local file system for images you'll most likely loose things like images. However, hosting static assets on AWS S3/Cloudfront is pretty common place nowadays.

 

At the very least, even if for some strange reason, you don't use Git (seriously, why on earth wouldn't you be using source control, do developers nowadays actually make a conscious decision to NOT use Git?), you'd have a copy on your local computer?

 

Personally point of view here, but if you have literally no backups of a site, even an old one, it's pretty irresponsible of you.

 

You can't really blame the host here. You should have backups.

 

If you host other client sites at the moment, immediately write a small bash script to zip the site and database and push it to s3.



#8 rallport

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 11:44 AM

Hi all

 

In my terms of engagement, I tell my clients that the hosting is their responsibility.

 

This week one of my clients has failed to pay their hosting and had their site deleted.

 

I never keep backups of my clients' websites.

 

I doubt very much this client ever saw the terms of engagement.

 

What do you do in this situation? Do you keep backups of all your clients websites?

 

Have I cocked up by not calling their attention to the terms in the first place?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Additionally, you probably want to look at changing the wording on your site: 

 

 

I can cater for all your web needs including web design and web development, graphic design, social media, advice and help. Hosting and setup, email and more. I am happy to setup Wordpress, blogs or bespoke websites.

 

In my book, setting up hosting includes setting up a backup to a remote server. If the client is big enough and depends upon their site for business you could be in a little trouble legally in my opinion. The client could easily argue you have caused them financial loss. Always, always use source control and take backups that are stored remotely. 



#9 rallport

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:03 PM

Just found your (current edited version) terms page at http://www.greylizar...co.uk/terms.php

 

Unfortunately I have no respect for you. According to Google, since Mar 4, 2017 15:49:23 GMT you have changed the terms page wording relating to hosting. Before 4/3/2017 it said: 

 

 

Hosting and domain name maintenance to be maintained by customer (with my help if needed).

 

Now, it says:

 

 

Hosting and domain name maintenance to be maintained by customer. This includes backup up the wbesite.

 

You also have a typo in the updated text you added because you added it so quickly. 

 

Not cool, not cool in the least.

 

Here is a screenshot I took a moment ago from Google's cache, showing you terms page on Mar 4, 2017 15:49:23 GMT:

 

 greylizard-webdesign-terms-04032017.png



#10 justint

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:17 PM

I'm just a small time webdesigner starting up. I've learnt my lesson re: backup of WordPress on Godaddy. This is all sorted and everything is now backed up. It was a very silly oversight on my part when taking on a new customer who wanted to use Godaddy. I've reconstructed from backup now.

Edited by justint, 16 March 2017 - 12:20 PM.


#11 justint

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:10 PM

I also need to say, with reference to the terms. I've been working very hard to satisfy my customers without getting burned myself. The terms are my attempt to make sure it doesn't happen again. I admit I haven't got it right yet but I am evolving the service when I learn from my mistakes. Hence the revised terms a few days ago. The customer who lost the site failed to pay the renewal despite several notifications from Godaddy. Despite my lack of backup of the Wordpress I had the original Word documents and pictures. However I had backed up with a dropbox plugin. Due to this I discovered that this customer couldn't afford Godaddy, despite insisting on it from the start. I have moved her site to an affordable host that I have used or years. So her hosting bill has gone from £GODADDY to £40 a year. I did this free of charge as she is a poor student like me.

 

I am now going to manage the hosting for her. In other cases I have had customers who wanted the site setup and then they took it over and requested that my part in the site was at an end. Again, I am trying to word the terms/services in such a way to cater for the different wants of customers. If I make the odd mistake that I learn from, I am also attempting to be flexible & honest. I'm really not in this to pull the wool over customers' eyes.



#12 justint

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:12 PM

I admit I need to reword the backup & hosting part. Which I have now done.


Edited by justint, 16 March 2017 - 03:23 PM.


#13 rbrtsmith

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:13 PM

Why not just use a managed service to host your clients sites?



#14 justint

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:14 PM

Yes it is an option. I'll have a look into it, thanks.



#15 rallport

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:29 PM

With hosting you'll always get people who simply don't value it or are not willing to pay. 

 

Make your life simple and insist that quality hosting is used, where you have control to setup backups yourself. There really isn't any excuse for at least not throwing backups onto AWS s3 - it's dirt cheap (even though Dropbox uses s3 behind the scenes, s3 is far cheaper).

 

At the moment I'm moving away from shared hosting. I have several managed VPS's, 2 dedicated servers and several smaller servers from Digital Ocean / AWS that are used to host specific projects.

 

Whatever solution, always always take some form of backup :)



#16 justint

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:34 PM

Indeed. I've always been very good in the past. I guess I had brain fade with this particular one. Luckily it has all worked out well, as she is a friend and wanted a redesign anyway. This was a good wakeup call and I'll not be so slapdash again. It's also been a great discussion of the various ways to backup, definitely increased he knowledge. I am finding that Godaddy is blocking certain attempts to backup. I've never been a fan but customers tend to like them.



#17 rbrtsmith

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:44 PM

I recommend from now on that you use Git on your projects and like has been mentioned you really can't go wrong with AWS.



#18 justint

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:46 PM

Yes, thanks. I've been looking into Git this afternoon, I'll definitely do that :)



#19 rallport

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:09 AM

Indeed. I've always been very good in the past. I guess I had brain fade with this particular one. Luckily it has all worked out well, as she is a friend and wanted a redesign anyway. This was a good wakeup call and I'll not be so slapdash again. It's also been a great discussion of the various ways to backup, definitely increased he knowledge. I am finding that Godaddy is blocking certain attempts to backup. I've never been a fan but customers tend to like them.

 

The first thing you should it get rid of Godaddy. Really do not not class them as a serious company in the least. I wouldn't host my blog with them to perfectly honest. 



#20 justint

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:12 AM

I agree. I tried to talk the customer out of Godaddy. I've never rated them. Luckily she has now listened to me and we switched the host! All came good in the end! :)



#21 citypaul

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:52 PM

Yes, thanks. I've been looking into Git this afternoon, I'll definitely do that :)

Yeah, Git is essential. Setting up git is the first thing I do on every single project I work on. I even use Git just for editing text files and for general stuff that I'm working on outside of code. I'd recommend learning the basics of Git as a number one priority, and use it on everything you use from this point forward.

 

You can use Github for remote storage of your Git repository, although they charge if you want to make the code private. There's a service from Atlassian called "bitbucket" though that gives you that for free. I use Bitbucket for all my personal stuff for that reason. If my computer were wiped or stolen today, I'd be able to bring all my work back to life quite easily. 



#22 NOCK

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:01 PM

Yeah, Git is essential. Setting up git is the first thing I do on every single project I work on. I even use Git just for editing text files and for general stuff that I'm working on outside of code. I'd recommend learning the basics of Git as a number one priority, and use it on everything you use from this point forward.
 
You can use Github for remote storage of your Git repository, although they charge if you want to make the code private. There's a service from Atlassian called "bitbucket" though that gives you that for free. I use Bitbucket for all my personal stuff for that reason. If my computer were wiped or stolen today, I'd be able to bring all my work back to life quite easily. 


Another option is GitLab which is free 😜


#23 Lyndsey

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:39 PM

Yeah, Git is essential. Setting up git is the first thing I do on every single project I work on. I even use Git just for editing text files and for general stuff that I'm working on outside of code. I'd recommend learning the basics of Git as a number one priority, and use it on everything you use from this point forward.

 

You can use Github for remote storage of your Git repository, although they charge if you want to make the code private. There's a service from Atlassian called "bitbucket" though that gives you that for free. I use Bitbucket for all my personal stuff for that reason. If my computer were wiped or stolen today, I'd be able to bring all my work back to life quite easily. 

 

GitHub provides unlimited private repositories now for about £7 per month (or thereabouts). I think it's a great price. Plus I like to keep my repositories in one place.



#24 rbrtsmith

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:43 PM

I just have all my repositories publicly available, I kind of think it's helpful to others to see me screw up when learning new things :)

 

although if I did have some sensitive stuff I would look to BitBucket or pay for GH.  I much prefer the UI on Github though it has to be said, the social aspect of it is really cool too.



#25 citypaul

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:51 PM

I just have all my repositories publicly available, I kind of think it's helpful to others to see me screw up when learning new things :)
 
although if I did have some sensitive stuff I would look to BitBucket or pay for GH.  I much prefer the UI on Github though it has to be said, the social aspect of it is really cool too.


Yeah, I'm talking about stuff I specifically want to remain private, like the app I'm building for myself in my spare time at the moment. Stuff like that. I've no issue with sticking code in general on github, but there's occasions where I specifically want the code to be private, so I use bitbucket for that.


#26 NOCK

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:10 PM

you really can't go wrong with AWS.


If you have unlimited budget that is!


#27 NOCK

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:11 PM

No

GitHub provides unlimited private repositories now for about £7 per month (or thereabouts). I think it's a great price. Plus I like to keep my repositories in one place.

  

I just have all my repositories publicly available, I kind of think it's helpful to others to see me screw up when learning new things :)
 
although if I did have some sensitive stuff I would look to BitBucket or pay for GH.  I much prefer the UI on Github though it has to be said, the social aspect of it is really cool too.

  

Yeah, I'm talking about stuff I specifically want to remain private, like the app I'm building for myself in my spare time at the moment. Stuff like that. I've no issue with sticking code in general on github, but there's occasions where I specifically want the code to be private, so I use bitbucket for that.


No love for GitLab?


#28 citypaul

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:58 PM

No     

No love for GitLab?


I just haven't tried it. We use Github in work, and I've used Bitbucket for personal stuff for a long time. I know Gitlab lost a bunch of repos recently, which doesn't really fill me with confidence, but I guess the main issue for me is that I've just never used it.


Edited by citypaul, 20 March 2017 - 09:09 PM.


#29 rallport

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:52 PM

If you have unlimited budget that is!

 

It's dirt cheap for the basic stuff - s3, Cloudfront, Micro EC2 instances imo. When you get onto the RDS instances it gets expensive yes. 



#30 rbrtsmith

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:47 PM

 

It's dirt cheap for the basic stuff - s3, Cloudfront, Micro EC2 instances imo. When you get onto the RDS instances it gets expensive yes. 

 

Also get most features free for your first year.



#31 citypaul

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:56 AM

 

Also get most features free for your first year.

Unless you click on the wrong thing and get £400+ taken out of your account, as happened to me :p

 

Edit: They did refund the full amount though, but it took about a week.


Edited by citypaul, 21 March 2017 - 12:56 AM.


#32 NOCK

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:30 AM

 

It's dirt cheap for the basic stuff - s3, Cloudfront, Micro EC2 instances imo. When you get onto the RDS instances it gets expensive yes. 

 

It's dirt cheap until the plan gets upgraded without being told. RDS is an absolute joke cost-wise as well quite frankly...

 

I might be in the minority but I'm not a massive fan of AWS, I think it's marketed well but is actually quite fiddly in places and expensive in others.



#33 NOCK

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:32 AM

I just haven't tried it. We use Github in work, and I've used Bitbucket for personal stuff for a long time. I know Gitlab lost a bunch of repos recently, which doesn't really fill me with confidence, but I guess the main issue for me is that I've just never used it.

 

Fair enough. You're right that GitLab lost some repos recently. If I remember correctly there were some quite serious issues with AWS recently too weren't there? That's technology I suppose... mistakes happen.



#34 rbrtsmith

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:30 AM

Unless you click on the wrong thing and get £400+ taken out of your account, as happened to me :p

 

Edit: They did refund the full amount though, but it took about a week.

 

I've set up an alarm for me when any costs are incurred so I can then kill any instances.  I know we spoke about this and they don't make it hugely obvious.

 

As for AWS I am quite new to it but I really like it and I can see why so many huge organisations use it.  It's only fiddly because of the amount you are able to configure which for large organisations is exactly what you want from a cloud platform.  Most places including mine describe their infrastructure though code.  We're using https://www.terraform.io/ but it's our dev lead who has set all that up for our project so I'm not at all well versed in it.  However it allows them to automate deployment to AWS, generate instances based on the config file etc.  It works really well.

There are loads of ways to cut costs on AWS, which again can be automated.  Done right AWS proves really cheap.


Edited by rbrtsmith, 21 March 2017 - 08:41 AM.


#35 Jack

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:16 AM

We use Bitbucket at work, it was the first to offer unlimited private repos to a team of 5 at no cost, and the pricing scales well if we need to expand our team in the future. To be honest, it does the job very well, I really like it.

 

Gitlab wasn't around when this decision was made, but I think we would likely use them nowadays because I like the issue board and the direction they are heading placing in code review and deployment tools into the same system.



#36 AshboDev

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:07 PM

I'm looking at running my own private GitLab CE server for my freelance stuff. We have one at work and it's so easy to use, even for our non-technical MD's and PM's. I don't really trust it being hosted elsewhere. I like control over my stuff :p Something to consider - self hosted GitLab...



#37 rallport

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 02:17 PM

 

It's dirt cheap until the plan gets upgraded without being told. RDS is an absolute joke cost-wise as well quite frankly...

 

I might be in the minority but I'm not a massive fan of AWS, I think it's marketed well but is actually quite fiddly in places and expensive in others.

 

I've not heard about being auto upgraded, ouch if that happened to you. With an RDS you're essentially paying for an optimized EC2 instance solely for a database. This is probably overkill for a lot of uses. However, their snapshot backup service is nice.

 

I know people that spent all their spare time messing with AWS and all sorts of odd AWS services I had no idea what they are. However, setting up an EC2 instance, S3, Cloudfront and Route 53 are all pretty easy. I think the pricing on those (particularly s3) is very low.  






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