[Alex_McI]

Haha i started a party off here

Yeah, i am going to stick to it, i enjoy it anyway, thanks for the help...

[tigerlabs]

Rob, on Jun 24 2008, 13:20, said:

Can't agree with you more. It seems computers are the future… and who can blame anyone for wanting to be part of it? Even though we will always need manual labour, there just isn't any incentive or future growth with it like there is with the internet and computer.

Kinda off topic But I found something really funny.

IMO, there are still going to be a LOT of people that don't know how to use a computer at all...

I've seen/heard of some people that don't know how to use a computer whatsoever.

Quote

Woman: my desktop won't turn on
Tech: please ensure that it is plugged in
Woman: it's too dark under the desk to see
Tech: well, turn on the lights
Woman: I can't, the power is out in the building

Rofl

[Alex_McI]

lol.. My aunty has no clue, she was on the phone to me panicking trying to copy and paste an image from google to word, the other day she was also asking me where powerpoint was becuase she closed it by accident

[jamest]

Go to University. My biggest regret was not going.

[EggMan]

lol, best decision I ever made was not going.

[tigerlabs]

EggMan, on Jun 30 2008, 05:27, said:

lol, best decision I ever made was not going.

I also, wouldn't go to a university.

[Rob]

I've already been once and I'm (hopefully, if student loan gets sorted out) going to start a new course this summer. It really depends on what course you're planning on taking, and what you want to get from going to Uni.

[Shaun]

It isn't for everybody. I chose not to go and I'm not doing too badly. I have some friends finishing Uni this year and next year who are going to end up in serious debt as well as starting work at the bottom of the ladder just like I did at 16...

[jamest]

Shaun, on Jun 30 2008, 21:52, said:

It isn't for everybody. I chose not to go and I'm not doing too badly. I have some friends finishing Uni this year and next year who are going to end up in serious debt as well as starting work at the bottom of the ladder just like I did at 16...

If they did their work and planned themselves properly they won't be starting at the bottom. Quite a few of my friends are coming out of uni and haven't even thought about a job so they are having quite a few months with no work.

[Rob]

The thing about the "serious debt" is that it isn't the same as your average loan/debt – it only goes up with inflation, and you pay this back only when you can afford it (when you earn over £16,000) – even then it's only a fraction of your monthly wages. If you believe that going to Uni will offset the cost of going, then I say go for it. Personally I'd regret it if I didn't do Uni at some point.

Saying that, I wouldn't go to Uni if you don't have a reason for it. If you can't see where you're going to be after Uni and how Uni is going to benefit you, then don't go.

[EggMan]

jamest, on Jun 30 2008, 22:02, said:

If they did their work and planned themselves properly they won't be starting at the bottom. Quite a few of my friends are coming out of uni and haven't even thought about a job so they are having quite a few months with no work.

Thats a load of crap

I'm a company looking for a new employee, I have two choices, which do I choose?

Potential Employee A - 23yrs old
Has been working in the industry for 5 years, been promoted twice, already works at the company, does a realy good job and is financially very stable. 5 years ago he started on 14k, now he is hoping to get 20k

Potential Employee B - 23yrs old
Is fresh out of university, has no industry experience at all other than some vague 'work experienc' that he did which isn't worth a penny, I have no idea if he's a hard worker, or if he can be trusted, he has 20k's worth of debt, and he wants a starting salary of 24k
But on the plus side he hs 'planned himself properly' so he is at this interview with me now a month after uni has ended rather than 3 months. (no difference)

Who shall I choose?

[Aaron Russell]

It all depends on the employing company, there are plenty of companies out there who look at individuals on their merits rather than their paperwork and I think that's especially so in the creative industry because generally speaking I dont think many creatives are the academic type (no offence intended there, just a generalisation which I think is fair). However, there are also plenty of companies that won't even interview you if you don't have a degree level qualification.

For what it's worth, I don't have a degree and I have no regrets. But there was a point in my early-mid twenties when I couldnt get any of the jobs I applied for purely because on paper I wasn't qualified. The fact that I'd been working since I was 16 and had plenty of 'life experience' counted for nothing.

[jamest]

EggMan, on Jul 1 2008, 09:13, said:

Thats a load of crap

I'm a company looking for a new employee, I have two choices, which do I choose?

Potential Employee A - 23yrs old
Has been working in the industry for 5 years, been promoted twice, already works at the company, does a realy good job and is financially very stable. 5 years ago he started on 14k, now he is hoping to get 20k

Potential Employee B - 23yrs old
Is fresh out of university, has no industry experience at all other than some vague 'work experienc' that he did which isn't worth a penny, I have no idea if he's a hard worker, or if he can be trusted, he has 20k's worth of debt, and he wants a starting salary of 24k
But on the plus side he hs 'planned himself properly' so he is at this interview with me now a month after uni has ended rather than 3 months. (no difference)

Who shall I choose?

Depends on the business.

And if they are coming out of uni with no work experience at all then that is their fault, they should have done some work, would of been able to cut their debt a bit too.

In a web design company I would be looking for the previous work that is up to the standard of the company. But I would expect a student at uni looking to get in to the industry to also have some previous work to show.

[Shaun]

Aaron Russell, There really is no way of knowing that the reason you were not getting these jobs was because you were not qualified. Mid-twenties, working since 16... I'm pretty sure 10 years experience will not be ignored purely because you have no qualifications.

I think we should refer to the winner of this years Apprentice to settle this debate

[Aaron Russell]

Shaun, on Jul 1 2008, 11:19, said:

Aaron Russell, There really is no way of knowing that the reason you were not getting these jobs was because you were not qualified. Mid-twenties, working since 16... I'm pretty sure 10 years experience will not be ignored purely because you have no qualifications.

I think we should refer to the winner of this years Apprentice to settle this debate

Like I said, it depends on the company you are trying to get into. I was looking for junior marketing roles in reasonable sized companies and I can assure you that I saw a LOT of jobs advertised that "required a degree or equivalent". The simple fact is that degrees are ten a penny these days - more people have them than don't. And many many organisations just use that as a filtering technique - if you aint got one you aint coming in!

If you go into life without a degree that's fine. There are many successful people who don't have degrees (not withstanding Lee of Apprentice fame). However, anyone who claims that not having a degree is in some way advantageous to having a degree (as some people seem to be saying here), is quite frankly being a bit dillusional.

[Shaun]

I agree, it is in no way a disadvantage but a lot of people are deluded in thinking it is a MAJOR advantage to be qualified. The only people who should regret not going to uni (in my opinion) are those who maybe should have planned things out a little better earlier on.

[wizely]

I always like regretting the things I've done rather than the things I haven't - it makes life more fun!

This whole uni no uni debate really is such an individual thing it's impossible to generalise - especially for the creative industries where raw talent is key. Now I did Chemistry at Uni and it's virtually impossible to climb the ranks without qualifications. Out of the people I know who are web designers only a few went to uni and fewer doing a specifically relevant degree. Alan sugar is the "boy who made good" but then plenty of high-paid jobs require the minimum of a masters to be even considered because there are too many applicants.
I've worked with plenty of people who have had to study at evening classes to try and progress and then I've worked with people who have shot through the ranks solely on merit and then there are those who are pig-thick but went to the right school... It's such a case-by-case thing.
I'm lucky - I got well-qualified, got the experience and then went self-employed immediately cutting my salary in half but increasing my free time tenfold! I may be poor but I'm life rich!

[Rob]

wizely, on Jul 1 2008, 13:30, said:

I always like regretting the things I've done rather than the things I haven't - it makes life more fun!

That pretty much sums it up for me. Thing is, Uni isn't just about getting your qualification, there are loads of other reasons why you might want to go. In my own case, I don't need to go to Uni to get my "dream job", I'm actually pretty much there already. There are many reasons I want to go to Uni, including the lifestyle and the experience. Most of all I just want to prove to myself that I can do it and get a degree. Maybe I'll even make some contacts along the way to push my web design… you never know, Uni might change my outlook on life! I'll never know if I don't go…

Like Wizely said, it's a very individual decision – there are no hard and fast rules to decide if you should go or not.

[fatrabbit]

Cabbage, on Jun 23 2008, 22:12, said:

I'm sorry to be rude but you couldn't be more wrong about computer games design. I've got 4 friends doing it at university, there's something ridiculous like 5000 people doing computer games design courses in the UK and the last time I read only about 90 jobs!

Although I agree about learning a real programming language I wouldn't go for C++ as C# is newer (albeit probably not quit as powerful as C++). Also if you look around the web a LOT of applications are becoming web based, so it'd probably make more sense to learn something like Flex or ROR as these are a good groundwork for learning other languages and would be more beneficial to Alex as he's looking at web.

There are more than 90 jobs in games programming. There is apparently a skills shortage. There are, as you say, a lot of people on Games Design degrees, but what games companies are looking for are people who have done Computer Science or Mathematics degrees for C++ positions.

In regard to the original post - remember that around the year 2000 everyone and their pet rock wanted a website (the "dot-com bubble") usually made with bad tables (guilty, back then). People then just thought "right, i've got my website, time to put my feet up and watch the money start rolling in" not realising that marketing, SEO etc. play a huge role in people actually finding your site.

There are lots of people out there who are surprised at the cost that quality web design can entail. They may decide to do it themselves or go to someone who does it badly for free or cheap because of their situation. But there is no substitute for years of design knowledge from a web designer.