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Google Images OK for design situation?


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#1 mistatall

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:22 AM

I'm making a collage of fishing lures for a picture on my website. I'm going to have like 20 lures in the collage. Is it okay for me to take pictures off of google images?

I normally would not scrape pictures from the net but with the particular issue it seems silly to worry about it because if you search "fishing lure" in google images there are so so many results, few of which require any real skill. I feel like the photos are low value photos. Or am I really about to buy 20 photos for this damn collage so I can display each lure at 10mm on the page.

What would you do?


#2 sash_oo7

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:29 AM

try flickr or here


#3 MikeChipshop

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:00 AM

Set google to royalty free and try searching again.
Don't just take and use others images.


#4 Georgew

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:26 AM

The problem with searching Google for royalty free, and searching Flickr for CC photos, is that people take restricted photos and republish them as royalty free. So actually, you're no better off since you can't actually trust these sauces.

Best bet is to pay for photos from a premium stock image site.


#5 kree8or

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

I use these guys. loads of free images and decent "paid for" images.


#6 porkchops

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 04:41 PM

You should probably stay away from Google Images for EVERYTHING except maybe practice work that is never posted to the internet. Navigating the seas of image copyright is not something you want to do blindly.

Pay for your images or take them yourself.

Also, Royalty free means you don't have to pay royalties on the images you use, but you still have to purchase them.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Royalty-free

You need completely free images published under some kind of open license. It's really hard to find images like that, but your best bet is to scour Flickr for people who let people use their images for free.

Rule of thumb: If someone hasn't EXPLICITLY told you that you can use an image, you can't.


#7 jamesosix

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:56 AM

the prices some of these sites charge for images is beyond belief. I saw an image i wanted yesterday and for the res I wanted it was £10. Seriously with another £15 I can buy a whole premium wordpress theme from themeforest.

Now, if they were more realistic pricing I wouldnt have a problem buying images.

What I do is adjust the image or blend it with elements of other images, so it becomes a whole new independent image...naughty? Maybe, but I have never had any angry people contest me.

"Its not where you took it from, its where you are taking it to"

Edited by jamesosix, 15 March 2012 - 07:59 AM.


#8 MikeChipshop

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:05 AM

Seriously? £10 is to much.
Maybe if you're knocking up cheap websites or flogging dubious templates but you get what you pay for in this world. A subscription to a decent stock imagery site will save you a lot of money and is almost an invaluable tool.

Also, the cost of any stock imagery used should be absorbed by your client not yourself.

You get what you pay for in this world and a photographer has been out there and taken those images. Trying to blend a couple of stolen images together is still using un-licensed images that are not yours to use. It's a bit like you finishing up a nice logo and having someone change the colours and text and claiming it as their own. Not really on is it?


#9 user-removed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:59 PM

The only free images I use off Google are those hosted on free wallpaper sites. You can sometimes find some decent images, and they will usually be high-res, and free.

However, for the most part, just cough up and use stock images. You really don't want to be on the wrong end of a lawsuit.

£10 might sound like a lot to you, but it'd be more like thousands if you get caught. Just not worth it IMO.

Also, I personally think stunning photographs are a lot harder than knocking up web templates. Not really a fair comparison, professional photography is what it is.

Edit:

Linky link link

Pretty much all those images would have been extremely difficult to take, possibly taken a couple of hours to get right. Not to mention things like, the cost of hiring a Phantom to take pictures of it, or the cost of flying two aircraft to get pictures of one, etc etc...

Tis why photography is expensive.

Edited by brightonmike, 15 March 2012 - 02:03 PM.


#10 jamesosix

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:06 PM

Seriously? £10 is to much.
Maybe if you're knocking up cheap websites or flogging dubious templates but you get what you pay for in this world. A subscription to a decent stock imagery site will save you a lot of money and is almost an invaluable tool.

Also, the cost of any stock imagery used should be absorbed by your client not yourself.

You get what you pay for in this world and a photographer has been out there and taken those images. Trying to blend a couple of stolen images together is still using un-licensed images that are not yours to use. It's a bit like you finishing up a nice logo and having someone change the colours and text and claiming it as their own. Not really on is it?

£10 is £10. Personally for the current work I am doing (lots of car dealer websites) then all I am doing is re-using say ford images, or vauxhall images...personally I dont see the problem. X Car manufacturer make more sales from their dealerships, which in turn are sold via the website - swings and roundabouts.

How can it save me more money than 'free'?

I would love to have a subscription to an image service, but getting a decent income from web design is hard as it is right now without me bumping up my prices to cover photos. Also if the client is on the understanding the images may bring lawsuits, but ok's it anyway, then its not my problem, its theirs for ok'ing it, on THEIR site.


The only free images I use off Google are those hosted on free wallpaper sites. You can sometimes find some decent images, and they will usually be high-res, and free.

However, for the most part, just cough up and use stock images. You really don't want to be on the wrong end of a lawsuit.

£10 might sound like a lot to you, but it'd be more like thousands if you get caught. Just not worth it IMO.

Also, I personally think stunning photographs are a lot harder than knocking up web templates. Not really a fair comparison, professional photography is what it is.

Edit:

Linky link link

Pretty much all those images would have been extremely difficult to take, possibly taken a couple of hours to get right. Not to mention things like, the cost of hiring a Phantom to take pictures of it, or the cost of flying two aircraft to get pictures of one, etc etc...

Tis why photography is expensive.

With regard to your link I would assume the person who designed that didn't charge a couple of hundred pound. If you can afford to run a private jet company you can afford good photography in your website.


#11 kree8or

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:13 PM

£10 is £10. Personally for the current work I am doing (lots of car dealer websites) then all I am doing is re-using say ford images, or vauxhall images...personally I dont see the problem. X Car manufacturer make more sales from their dealerships, which in turn are sold via the website - swings and roundabouts.

How can it save me more money than 'free'?

I would love to have a subscription to an image service, but getting a decent income from web design is hard as it is right now without me bumping up my prices to cover photos. Also if the client is on the understanding the images may bring lawsuits, but ok's it anyway, then its not my problem, its theirs for ok'ing it, on THEIR site.


So instead of charging £200 charge £250. As for the client ok'ing it, I would spend some money with a lawyer to crank out a water tight contract on that score (if you could find a lawyer that is unethical enough to do this), after all that hassle and expense, wouldn't it be worth just doing things properly from the off? If you are just starting out, building a portfolio and getting you name known is hard enough, but do you want to be known as the guy who steals images?


#12 MikeChipshop

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:42 PM

I would love to have a subscription to an image service, but getting a decent income from web design is hard as it is right now without me bumping up my prices to cover photos. Also if the client is on the understanding the images may bring lawsuits, but ok's it anyway, then its not my problem, its theirs for ok'ing it, on THEIR site.


A decent income?
Here's how it works... Client wants a site, charge accordingly. Client wants nice photographs and imagery, charge accordingly.
When i'm sourcing imagery for a client it's part of the package and is charged accordingly. The client is charged for the cost of the image license as well as for the time it takes me to locate an image that the client signs off. That's how it works.

The images have licenses for a reason. Licensable images are not free, the rights belong to someone and it's only fair that you pay for the right to use their work in your commercial work. After all how would you like it if someone took a site you'd made and used it claiming it would be to expensive to make themselves?

As for it's the clients problem. 'fraid you're very wrong there. Whether the clients happy or not, it's still you that conducted copyright infringement. You are the one payable to pay the fines and have your name dragged through the mud. If the client sourced them, then you'd have a certain amount of come back on it. Although i'm sure it still wouldn't do your reputation any good.

If you find it that hard to make a living at web design then either try something different as a career or stick to free images from free stock image providers.


#13 user-removed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:59 PM

Bottom line is, if you're not using appropriately licensed images, you're stealing. It's copyright theft in the same way as pirating a film.

"I can't afford it" is a lame excuse. If I can't afford a Ferrari, I don't just steal one instead.

May be a slightly extreme analogy, but the principle is exactly the same.

Don't think you'll never get caught, either. People do, all the time, and the penalties are heavy. Heavy enough to put you out of business and ruin your reputation. Imagine having to explain it to a potential employer.

The risks just aren't worth it. You can get stock images for £1-5 each. That is hardly big bucks for the sake of not breaking the law, not stealing, and not putting your entire career at risk.

Sorry if I sound a bit on the preachy side here, but it just ain't worth it. If you're doing a website for say, £400, are you seriously telling me the extra £40 for some stock images is too much to stomach?

Edited by brightonmike, 15 March 2012 - 09:01 PM.


#14 MikeChipshop

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:27 PM

And if to outline our point, this has just been posted elsewhere on the forum...

http://www.webdesign...957#entry380957


#15 MikeChipshop

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:07 PM

How can it save me more money than 'free'?


Sourcing stock images for a client should leave you in profit. So, better than free yes?


#16 jamesosix

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:46 AM

Bottom line is, if you're not using appropriately licensed images, you're stealing. It's copyright theft in the same way as pirating a film.

"I can't afford it" is a lame excuse. If I can't afford a Ferrari, I don't just steal one instead.

May be a slightly extreme analogy, but the principle is exactly the same.

Don't think you'll never get caught, either. People do, all the time, and the penalties are heavy. Heavy enough to put you out of business and ruin your reputation. Imagine having to explain it to a potential employer.

The risks just aren't worth it. You can get stock images for £1-5 each. That is hardly big bucks for the sake of not breaking the law, not stealing, and not putting your entire career at risk.

Sorry if I sound a bit on the preachy side here, but it just ain't worth it. If you're doing a website for say, £400, are you seriously telling me the extra £40 for some stock images is too much to stomach?


Errrm there is a severe difference between using an image found on google images and stealing an actual ferrari. Your analogy isnt bad, its just plain wrong.

Also I assume then you have never pirated a single song, film or tv show?

And if to outline our point, this has just been posted elsewhere on the forum...

http://www.webdesign...957#entry380957

Wow, thats an amazing coincidence. We are talking about this and suddenly a new poster posts this scenario last night and he has only 1 post. That isn't dodgy, in the slightest.

Sourcing stock images for a client should leave you in profit. So, better than free yes?

Agreed on that point.

Bottom line you guys are saying i am the lowest of the low because i get by. I survive. Never had a problem yet. Oh and your halos are slipping.

Seriously I like this forum, but please dont come across whiter than white.


#17 MikeChipshop

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:25 AM

I help moderate this forum, if you're seriously suggesting that I took time out to register a faker user, write a fake post and then reply to myself just to prove a point, then you obviously think this is more important to me than it really is.

I neve said I was whiter than white. However at least I respect others work and charge my clients accordingly for legit licenses to use images.

You've been caught with your pants down stealing and modifying un-licensed images. It even comes across as if you're suggesting others should do the same? Any more glorifying and I'll have to give you a warning as per the forum rules.

P.s. it's pretty damn easy to get caught using stolen images and any content.


#18 user-removed

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:40 AM

Errrm there is a severe difference between using an image found on google images and stealing an actual ferrari. Your analogy isnt bad, its just plain wrong.



If you use an image you don't have licence to use, and is copyright protected, that is theft.

It is copyright theft, but it's still stealing. So yeah, the analogy holds up fine.

And no, I don't pirate films, TV or music. I did when I was a teenager, but you can hardly hold the naivety of youth against me. Now, I stream legally using services such as Spotify and Lovefilm.


#19 Spitfire

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:52 AM

If you are going to use images from Google Images then do it properly - http://images.google...ed_image_search

Otherwise, check out one of the many free image sites:
http://images.google...ed_image_search


"Remy, food will come. Food always comes to those who love to cook."
- Auguste Gusteau


#20 jamesosix

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:10 AM

If you use an image you don't have licence to use, and is copyright protected, that is theft.

It is copyright theft, but it's still stealing. So yeah, the analogy holds up fine.

And no, I don't pirate films, TV or music. I did when I was a teenager, but you can hardly hold the naivety of youth against me. Now, I stream legally using services such as Spotify and Lovefilm.

no it doesnt.

"you stole an image so you would/could/etc steal a ferrari".

its the same as:

"you killed a fly/spider/bug so you would/could kill a human".

There is a massive difference.


#21 MikeChipshop

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:12 AM

no it doesnt.

"you stole an image so you would/could/etc steal a ferrari".

its the same as:

"you killed a fly/spider/bug so you would/could kill a human".

There is a massive difference.


Is it illegal to steal and image? Yes
Is it illegal to steal a car? Yes

^ There's your similarity.

Is it illegal to kill a human? Yes
Is it illegal to kill a bug? No

There's your difference.


#22 jamesosix

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:16 AM

yawn.
brb off to steal a ferrari.


#23 TheSimpleHost-Nathan

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:17 AM

Take a read of: http://www.webdesign...010#entry381010


#24 MikeChipshop

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:18 AM

yawn.
brb off to steal a ferrari.


Good come back :rolleyes:

Bored of being proven wrong. Don't come on to a professional forum and glorify stealing others work and expect a pat on the back.

If you didn't take the image then, without paying for it, it's not yours to use. End of story.


#25 jamesosix

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:31 AM

Good come back :rolleyes:

Bored of being proven wrong. Don't come on to a professional forum and glorify stealing others work and expect a pat on the back.

If you didn't take the image then, without paying for it, it's not yours to use. End of story.

yes that is it! I just get annoyed with the angelic like attitudes around here. I'm not here to argue, but some of you come across like you done no wrong in the world, or blame it on misguided youth.

p.s. not all images are licenced. As a previous poster mentioned - those free wallpaper sites etc.

Edited by jamesosix, 16 March 2012 - 09:33 AM.


#26 MikeChipshop

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:37 AM

yes that is it! I just get annoyed with the angelic like attitudes around here. I'm not here to argue, but some of you come across like you done no wrong in the world, or blame it on misguided youth.

p.s. not all images are licenced. As a previous poster mentioned - those free wallpaper sites etc.


At no point did i say i was angelic and whiter than white. In fact that's a label you tarnished us with. In my personal life i'm far from perfect BUT in my professional life i do things by the book. I have to much to lose by cutting corners. Get a subscription to a decent stock image site and charge clients accordingly so that they pay for the image plus your costs for finding the image on top.

OR if the worst comes to the worst, get the clients to supply the images themself with a writing cover note explaining that they believe the images to be licensed for use. Otherwise you'll find yourself on the end of a court order pretty quickly.


#27 4colourprogress

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:38 AM

Errrm there is a severe difference between using an image found on google images and stealing an actual ferrari. Your analogy isnt bad, its just plain wrong.



Tell that to Getty.


#28 4colourprogress

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:41 AM

p.s. not all images are licenced. As a previous poster mentioned - those free wallpaper sites etc.


I'll use myself as an example, I'm a pretty keen photographer and licence my images using a Creative Commons non-commercial licence.

However I go to some of these so called "free image websites" and what do I find? Them offering my pics up as royalty free for commercial use, WTF?

I wouldn't trust those "licence free" sites as far as I could throw them.

At the end of the day you should always budget for Images as Mike said. Images are just as important as good copy as far as web design is concerned.

Edited by 4colourprogress, 16 March 2012 - 09:43 AM.


#29 user-removed

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:43 AM

"you stole an image so you would/could/etc steal a ferrari".


I never said that?

I said, if I cannot afford a Ferrari, my solution is not to steal one.

You cannot afford (or so you say) stock images, yet your solution is to steal one.

As I said, the analogy is extreme but the principle is the same. What you are doing, is exactly the same, the only difference in the object in question.

P.S Don't confuse being angelic with acting professionally. Some of us on here have a reputation and a career to protect. The internet is a dangerous place to be letting your hair down, ha.

Edited by brightonmike, 16 March 2012 - 09:49 AM.


#30 jamesosix

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:57 AM

and the cost between the two.

What do you think would earn you more time in jail? 'Stealing' an image, or stealing a 250k car?

I'm all for listening to valid points, but lets keep it in context please.

Edited by jamesosix, 16 March 2012 - 09:57 AM.


#31 MikeChipshop

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:59 AM

and the cost between the two.

What do you think would earn you more time in jail? 'Stealing' an image, or stealing a 250k car?


Does it matter? You're stealing others images. It's wrong. It doesn't matter what the punishment is.

You are now pushing this forums rules regarding discussion illegal practices. You will be issued a warning if you do not stop.


#32 kree8or

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:00 AM

Whats with the attitude? Everyone on this thread has tried to help you keep out of trouble witht the law and protect your reputation, and you reply with a bad attitude.


#33 user-removed

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

and the cost between the two.

What do you think would earn you more time in jail? 'Stealing' an image, or stealing a 250k car?

I'm all for listening to valid points, but lets keep it in context please.



It is a matter of principle. The intricacies and details are irrelevant.


#34 jamesosix

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

Does it matter? You're stealing others images. It's wrong. It doesn't matter what the punishment is.

You are now pushing this forums rules regarding discussion illegal practices. You will be issued a warning if you do not stop.

but you are discussing it back with me? A discussion is a two way thing, not to be funny but you are encouraging me to reply.

May I suggest locking this thread?

It is a matter of principle. The intricacies and details are irrelevant.

Not in a court of law. The details are very relevant to the case.

Edited by jamesosix, 16 March 2012 - 10:04 AM.


#35 user-removed

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:06 AM

Not in a court of law. The details are very relevant to the case.


It is a question of morals - not law.


#36 MikeChipshop

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:06 AM

but you are discussing it back with me? A discussion is a two way thing, not to be funny but you are encouraging me to reply.

May I suggest locking this thread?


Difference is my posts are about the legal ways of obtaining and using images. You're glorifying theft.

I will not be locking this thread, it serves as a warning to others that stealing other peoples hard work is wrong. It also serves as a notice to people that you don't care.

Coming at us with attitude because you've been caught with your trousers down isn't the smartest thing to do when we are in the right.
I only hope that you don't get caught because i wouldn't wish that on any small business but my advice to you now is to stop stealing images (and anything else if you do) and replace any existing images in the past that you may have nabbed. Otherwise a few years down the line you may be in for a HUGE copyright infringement fine.


#37 4colourprogress

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:08 AM

You can't measure a crime from an outside perspective it's just wrong. Say some woman comes up to you on the street and tells you that someone stole her phone last week, you're not really going to give a **** and just ignore her.

However say that it was your phone that was stolen I'm pretty sure you would be pissed no?

It's the same thing for images you think you have the right to just use images as you like because they are there to use but you are not thinking about A) where the images come from and B) how much work/effort went into making the images in the first place.

I like that you chose not to reply to my previous post, people have used my images in the past for commercial use without permission and it really pisses me off, the thing is if they just asked me for permission I may have even told them it was okay as it got me more exposure.

Your problem is that you don't see anything wrong with using other peoples images but the fact is to some people it's just as bad as stealing a ferrari, everything is relative.


#38 jamesosix

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:19 AM

You can't measure a crime from an outside perspective it's just wrong. Say some woman comes up to you on the street and tells you that someone stole her phone last week, you're not really going to give a **** and just ignore her.

However say that it was your phone that was stolen I'm pretty sure you would be pissed no?

It's the same thing for images you think you have the right to just use images as you like because they are there to use but you are not thinking about A) where the images come from and B) how much work/effort went into making the images in the first place.

I like that you chose not to reply to my previous post, people have used my images in the past for commercial use without permission and it really pisses me off, the thing is if they just asked me for permission I may have even told them it was okay as it got me more exposure.

Your problem is that you don't see anything wrong with using other peoples images but the fact is to some people it's just as bad as stealing a ferrari, everything is relative.

I never replied to you because I had nothing to say about it. If your work is being used in the way you dont accept then I would encourage you to take the necassary action to get it resolved.

Difference is my posts are about the legal ways of obtaining and using images. You're glorifying theft.

I will not be locking this thread, it serves as a warning to others that stealing other peoples hard work is wrong. It also serves as a notice to people that you don't care.

Coming at us with attitude because you've been caught with your trousers down isn't the smartest thing to do when we are in the right.
I only hope that you don't get caught because i wouldn't wish that on any small business but my advice to you now is to stop stealing images (and anything else if you do) and replace any existing images in the past that you may have nabbed. Otherwise a few years down the line you may be in for a HUGE copyright infringement fine.


I havent "been caught" i have been frank and honest. If you think bad of me, then that isnt really my problem. I dont have a small business, and merely do work for freinds and family. I hold down a fulltime job and get by. WDF forum isnt where I market myself when I am looking for work. I come here to converse with others and help where possible. It has nothing to do with my professional work.

Anyway, I'm done. What more can I say?

I'm the bad guy folks. I used a few images from google images. Shoot me now...


#39 4colourprogress

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:24 AM

I'm the bad guy folks. I used a few images from google images. Shoot me now...



Won't have to, leave that the possible solicitors letters you receive further down the line <3

I'll just leave this here :)

hyEtP.jpg


#40 user-removed

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:24 AM

I havent "been caught" i have been frank and honest. If you think bad of me, then that isnt really my problem. I dont have a small business, and merely do work for freinds and family. I hold down a fulltime job and get by. WDF forum isnt where I market myself when I am looking for work. I come here to converse with others and help where possible. It has nothing to do with my professional work.

Anyway, I'm done. What more can I say?

I'm the bad guy folks. I used a few images from google images. Shoot me now...


Yeah, but this is my job, so I have a reputation and a career to maintain. So I can't really be sitting here saying you pinching images off Google is OK.





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