[4487rathb]

Hi!

Basically, I have made some websites before, but I have never used a CMS.

I have a fellow soldier friend who is getting out of the Army over the next few months and he is going to be starting up his own lock smith company. I offered to make him a website, which is fine, no problem. My friend has no technical knowledge or any web design knowledge at all, so updating it himself using the raw code is a big no no.

My problem is I have never used a CMS before, so I do not fully know what to do with them. Do I have to change my code to suit the CMS? Does the CMS override your styles and layouts to their own?

Will a CMS allow him to update his website himself, and is it the best thing to use?

Also what is best? Should I tailor make a CMS myself to suit his website, or would it be best to use an existing CMS such as WordPress or Joomla etc.?

Thanks.

[oakleaves]

4487rathb, on 23 January 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

My friend has no technical knowledge or any web design knowledge at all, so updating it himself using the raw code is a big no no.

If that's the case then chances are your friend will also never be inclined to do anything with the CMS either. Even where customers request CMS oftentimes they end up never touching it.

If you do opt for a CMS Wordpress takes some beating. You would need to make a custom theme for it which is a little different to how you would code a static HTML site but the principles are the same..

The styling is done via a CSS stylesheet usually called style.css

Personally I would get as much info as possible and do him a static 3-5page HTML site. That should be fine for the subject matter.

[4487rathb]

oakleaves, on 23 January 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

If that's the case then chances are your friend will also never be inclined to do anything with the CMS either. Even where customers request CMS oftentimes they end up never touching it.

If you do opt for a CMS Wordpress takes some beating. You would need to make a custom theme for it which is a little different to how you would code a static HTML site but the principles are the same..

The styling is done via a CSS stylesheet usually called style.css

Personally I would get as much info as possible and do him a static 3-5page HTML site. That should be fine for the subject matter.

He will be updating it and changing it himself though, so he will be touching the CMS if there is one there.

[oakleaves]

4487rathb, on 23 January 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

He will be updating it and changing it himself though, so he will be touching the CMS if there is one there.

Wordpress then. Out of the CMS - it's probably one of the easiest to get your head round in the admin section, is good for SEO if set up right and should be easy enough to create a custom theme.

[4487rathb]

Do I create the whole website first then use the CMS or install the CMS and create the website?

[oakleaves]

Get hosting. Install Wordpress (can be done in a single click with some hosts). Set up wordpress to have a static homepage (Google how to do this). Modify the Twenty Eleven theme (ideally using a child theme) or upload a brand new theme to the wp-content/themes folder. (Copy the Twenty Eleven theme and call it whatever you want). Activate the theme in the back office.

Work out a design in Photoshop if that's how you like to do things then apply that design to the custom wordpress theme.

[oakleaves]

Or get your mate to buy a Premium Wordpress theme for about 30quid if you don't fancy messing about and customise that.

[FizixRichard]

I'll chime in even though this has answers, with a bit of detail.

4487rathb, on 23 January 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

My problem is I have never used a CMS before, so I do not fully know what to do with them. Do I have to change my code to suit the CMS? Does the CMS override your styles and layouts to their own?

It depends on the CMS, some take a lot of setting up, some require development work (as they are more like frameworks than turnkey products), some just install and work.

Wordpress is great for blogs, I wouldn't call it a CMS as such though. It can be used as one, but strictly speaking it really isn't.

4487rathb, on 23 January 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Will a CMS allow him to update his website himself, and is it the best thing to use?

Yes, thats the point of a CMS, that the end user has a visual content editor and an intuitive interface where they can write and maintain their own content, so they don't have to go running to a developer or designer every time they want to update their content. So if they are updating the content themselves then of course its the best solution to use.

4487rathb, on 23 January 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Also what is best? Should I tailor make a CMS myself to suit his website, or would it be best to use an existing CMS such as WordPress or Joomla etc.?

It depends what the client wants and what their abilities are. Like I wouldn't hand Joomla or Drupal to a novice, Joomla works well for novices. I personally don't like either.

Expression Engine is pretty good for beginners but I've known some novices pick it up and expect it to install and be used like Invision Board for websites and end up being asked to 'sort it out for them', but if you are doing it then it might not be an issue. It's a bit technical though.


Wordpress is more like the, install and go type of solution, its easy to get into and if you want a blog its perfect, if you want a brochure website it can do that too, but you'll want extensions for it really.


On the topic of building one yourself, its actually a big task if you want to do it good. We built our own and it took a long time and there is still loads we want to do with it. Ours is an install and go type of affair (see my sig if you want to see it, its public, but is probably overkill, I don't know).

No matter what you use, you'll need to either buy or download a theme (I tend to find it hard to find themes I like for any CMS or turnkey product and usually fall back on doing my own).

On the topic of creating your own theme, how hard it is to do depends on the system, how its structured and the methods they use for their templates.


Wordpress is easy but I don't think it's the best approach, I prefer the approach that Expression Engine uses, which isn't too dissimilar to Invision and vBulletin; and is the approach we took with ours. It's much easier to work with these types of template engines.


I would say to look at what your friend wants (feature wise, i.e. if its just a few static pages or if he wants more things than that), look at how hard it will be to create a skin/theme for it, how hard it will be to use (the commercial products all offer demos or evaluations; so have a play with them).

Look around and choose the solution that 'feels right'. One thing I have learned over the years is that the feature list is nice but its how it feels to the end user that will kind of define how they feel about the CMS and how comfortable with it.

They all work in slightly different ways and these details make a big difference to the end user.

This post has been edited by FizixRichard: 25 January 2012 - 03:23 PM

[oakleaves]

FizixRichard, on 25 January 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

I'll chime in even though this has answers, with a bit of detail.

Wordpress is great for blogs, I wouldn't call it a CMS as such though. It can be used as one, but strictly speaking it really isn't.

Thanks for the extra detail, but I would have to disgree with you there.

With the ability to add a static homepage and it's ease of use, as well as it's seo friendliness it is now a CMS in it's own right. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not one he uses Wordpress for everything, but for the description of the OP's task Wordpress is the obvious choice.

[oakleaves]

Unless, of course, you think the OP would be better off trying the CMS you mentioned in your footer signature?

[FizixRichard]

oakleaves, on 25 January 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Thanks for the extra detail, but I would have to disgree with you there.

With the ability to add a static homepage and it's ease of use, as well as it's seo friendliness it is now a CMS in it's own right. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not one he uses Wordpress for everything, but for the description of the OP's task Wordpress is the obvious choice.

I do agree with you and think Wordpress is the right solution for the OP; I thought it was clear with what I was saying.

I was just trying to get the OP to look around a little, because if something else matches the features he needs now and may need in the future I would recommend taking the one that doesn't or isn't going to need extension.

This is the reason I said I wouldn't call it a CMS (strictly speaking), almost all websites that are WP powered that I have been coming into contact with have been using plugins a lot and sometimes at its own peril.

You mention the static page ability, if your idea of a CMS is static pages, categories and articles then yes, its a CMS and I agree with that. It's when you want to do more (and brochure sites can, even small ones). So I don't think its as clean cut as "choose wordpress".


One of the big reasons I defer from it as a CMS when delivering to clients, is due to outgrowth, I'm very careful where I use it as its not that easy to migrate from it when you have a site that has a lot of content and uses a lot of plugins that start altering the data.

The database can get quite messy.

Also, I personally don't think the template system is that good.


BUT, yeah it probably is right for the OP; I'm just saying that there are more solutions out there and that he should look at what he/his friend needs and look at the offerings that are out there, play with them, try them all out and choose whats best.

Quote

Unless, of course, you think the OP would be better off trying the CMS you mentioned in your footer signature?

No, actually I said, its probably overkill (as is expression engine probably). I listed what 5 CMS's; if I came along and mentioned just that one then fair enough. I actually pushed Expression Engine as one to look at.

Provided the OP sets Expression Engine up for his friend, I find it works for non technical people, that was the only risk I gave on it (setup).

This post has been edited by FizixRichard: 25 January 2012 - 03:46 PM

[oakleaves]

Ok, fair play

[oakleaves]

You make some intelligent points but I can't help thinking this has become a 'what's the best CMS' rather than answering the OPs post.

On many occasion I have also challenged the overuse of Wordpress and have been looking for the best CMS myself. Maybe you could give some pointers on this thread I made earlier as I didn't get that much feedback at the time:-


http://www.webdesign...093#entry369093

This post has been edited by oakleaves: 25 January 2012 - 03:51 PM

[FizixRichard]

oakleaves, on 25 January 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

You make some intelligent points but I can't help thinking this has become a 'what's the best CMS' rather than answering the OPs post.

On many occasion I have also challenged the overuse of Wordpress and have been looking for the best CMS myself. Maybe you could give some pointers on this thread I made earlier as I didn't get that much feedback at the time:-


http://www.webdesign...093#entry369093

I guess I did do that, but only because the OP asked whats the best in his OP at the bottom.


I said to avoid Joomla and Drupal (more Drupal) for technical reasons and bloat. I personally don't like them that much (others do, its a personal preference thing).

I recommended WP, Expression and mentioned mine as I would say, they are the ones I would use myself for novice clients. I would probably go Expression over WP for most sites unless they were really basic though.

I'll read your thread though.

This post has been edited by FizixRichard: 25 January 2012 - 03:55 PM

[hodephdesign]

Just to add a little fuel to the fire, we've previously used this for clients, it's pretty simple to se tup (you just add "cms-editable" as a class to editable portions of text).

Page Lime