[welshhuw]

Hi,

I have been freelancing for a few months now. And have a steady stream of clients. Nice. But one has an outstanding invoice that was due 5th October.

As this was a small, remote based job, I did not use any contracts etc for the Project.

I have managed one email reply and one telephone conversation with the client, who promised payment. Still though, nothing. I have emailed multiple times, resent the invoice, left answer phone messages and even contacted via Facebook. (As this project was for a custom facebook page and tabs.)

Where do I stand? What can I do now?

Looking forward to your advice!

Cheers,

Huw

[zed]

are you hosting it and/or have the ability to take it down?

[welshhuw]

zed, on 28 October 2011 - 10:16 AM, said:

are you hosting it and/or have the ability to take it down?

Sadly, the client(one person) has the hosting under their control. I have un-published the Facebook page. and could delete it but the actual files are on their server.

[oakleaves]

As for this particular case - it's tricky.

Maybe the only thing you can do (unless the guy decides to do the right thing) is keep pestering until you get the money. Sometimes people just pay up to shut you up.

Since it's a custom Facebook page it would be tricky to remove / take down, so failing the above you may have to put it down as:- 'lesson learned' and in future get some sort of contract.

I have also had to learn that one the hard way. There's another similar thread and Sogo7 hit the nail on the head.

Thread

This post has been edited by oakleaves: 28 October 2011 - 10:29 AM

[welshhuw]

oakleaves, on 28 October 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

As for this particular case - it's tricky.

Maybe the only thing you can do (unless the guy decides to do the right thing) is keep pestering until you get the money. Sometimes people just pay up to shut you up.

Since it's a custom Facebook page it would be tricky to remove / take down, so failing the above you may have to put it down as:- 'lesson learned' and in future get some sort of contract.

I have also had to learn that one the hard way. There's another similar thread and Sogo7 hit the nail on the head.

I am going to write an email giving her x days to pay the amount of I will remove the Facebook page, as I am the admin, and I set it up. And put it down to lesson learned.

Is it not possible to go through small claims court or something??

Thanks

[oakleaves]

welshhuw, on 28 October 2011 - 10:25 AM, said:

Is it not possible to go through small claims court or something??

I couldn't say as I've never gone down that route myself - maybe I was too soft but I thought it may be more hassle than it was worth. It was a good learning curve though, although at the time I was furious!

I would imagine it would be tough without having any form of contract anyway..

[Jason Dexter]

Are they flat out refusing to pay or are they just putting it off?

Phone them up and ask when they'll be paying it and just keep bugging them.

Is it for a large amount? Any legal action may be more costly than it's worth but how about writing up a professional letter explaining that your records show their invoice is over due and that they have x amount of days to pay the full amount before you seek legal action.

Usually gets peoples attention and once they realise that you mean business and they cant get away with it then I'm sure they'll pay up

[zed]

http://www.advicegui...mall_claims.htm

[oakleaves]

Word of warning for you though if you do go down that route Huw..

If you feel it is the last resort then fine, but one of my relatives is an electrician by trade and one of his customers owed him in the region of £3000

After much to-ing and throwing and time wasted, and after a lengthy period, judgement was passed in favour of my relative.

The guy still managed to dodge payment even after that. Relative - furious! He said he only did it as a matter of principal because the guy annoyed him so much. Financially it wasn't worth it.

[welshhuw]

Thanks for the replies.

The client has not refused payment, they are just not replying to emails or answering phone calls.

I think I will draft up a letter stating that legal action will be ensued if no payment is made within x amount days or even that there will be added amount for late payment.

Thanks

[zed]

have you got a payment terms on your invoice that you can refer them to?

[Lieto]

every time client is delaying payment cute little bunny dies


Bring it to their attention!

p.s. sorry for trolling

[oakleaves]

Lieto, on 28 October 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

every time client is delaying payment cute little bunny dies


Bring it to their attention!

p.s. sorry for trolling

riiiiiiight

[Gaelen]

As much as I hate to say it, the registered letter sent to them stating your payment terms generally gets them right on it. I find it usually takes a nudge sometimes a big one to get them going.

Lieto, on 28 October 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

every time client is delaying payment cute little bunny dies


Bring it to their attention!

p.s. sorry for trolling

if you were sorry... wouldn't you stop?

[Gibson]

The more and more I see posts like this, the more I think it's useful to have payment stages to a site. You don't continue until the client has paid for that stage. That way, the most money you can ever lose is a fraction of the total fee, not the whole thing.

I think with things being as they are with these p*ss taking clients, it's a mistake to :

1 : Not have a contract.

2 : Get payment in full when the site is complete. Instead, get payment in stages as each stage of the site is done.

[welshhuw]

I usually work with payment stages, but as this was low cost and they were passed from a very good client of mine, I put my trust in them.

Thanks for all the advice and hopefully I can get something sorted very soon!

Huw

[Gibson]

welshhuw, on 28 October 2011 - 05:32 PM, said:

they were passed from a very good client of mine, I put my trust in them.

Yeah unfortunately these tend to be the type that usually sting. The "trustworthy" referrals.

[smoothonline]

welshhuw, on 28 October 2011 - 05:32 PM, said:

I usually work with payment stages, but as this was low cost and they were passed from a very good client of mine, I put my trust in them.

Thanks for all the advice and hopefully I can get something sorted very soon!

Huw

This says everything we need to know.

Clients are not friends! Clients are not nice, they run businesses, all they care about is themselves.

Don't forget it and bring the same ideas to your business, take deposits/ dont hand over work without payment. Simples.

[Gibson]

smoothonline, on 28 October 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:

Clients are not friends! Clients are not nice, they run businesses, all they care about is themselves.

Unfortunately this is correct. Even when they are friends outside of business, they're not friends within business.

It's sad that it's come to this. Everyone out for themselves. I'm a great believer in gentlemen's agreements, the sturdy handshake. But unfortunately those days are gone and we have to put that little bit of paper in as the clamped vice to protect ourselves.

Oh the big self satisfied grin that must come over their faces when they don't pay you, or knock you down in price. Little consideration given to the fact that we have to pay bills etc. - They walk around thinking they are "business" people. But they are anything but. They are just rip off artists.

Hell my last ink session I gave my tattooist 100 pound tip on a 400 pound tatt.The smile that he gave was worth it. That was all off my own back as well, he never asked for it or anything.

So it raises the question to these "clients" - would you rather walk around with pride? Or shame, because you are a "rip off artist" and a cowboy in business? Well I know which one I'd rather be, money isn't everything.

Sorry, ranting there. I just had to have my beloved cat put down about an hour ago and am not in a very good mood. RIP.

[smoothonline]

Gibson.

You're expecting business people to have a conscious.

Do you think the most successful business men and women out there got there by being selfess, giving tips and going the extra mile. All the business people around here that are successful are tight/greedy and never do anything unless it lines their pockets.

The truth is those people are millionnaires and I'm struggling on less than £25k joint income.

Would I like to let my morals slip to become a millionaire like them?
Not really; but the point is, I'll probably always be working class.

[Gibson]

smoothonline, on 29 October 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Gibson.

You're expecting business people to have a conscious.

I'm not quite understanding how you got this from what I said? I was basically saying exactly the same as you, sorry if I was unclear. I don't expect businesspeople to have a conscience. It would be nice if they did have, perhaps then they might be better businesspeople, but unfortunately they don't. And that as likely as not makes them 2nd rate business people.

[smoothonline]

sorry i just mean your general thoughts across this forum, like on, ling cars thread, its good to have a heart but you probably wont ever be a millionnaire, lol

[rallport]

smoothonline, on 29 October 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Gibson.

You're expecting business people to have a conscious.

Do you think the most successful business men and women out there got there by being selfess, giving tips and going the extra mile. All the business people around here that are successful are tight/greedy and never do anything unless it lines their pockets.

The truth is those people are millionnaires and I'm struggling on less than £25k joint income.

Would I like to let my morals slip to become a millionaire like them?
Not really; but the point is, I'll probably always be working class.

That's really sad, but very very true

A few years ago I used to be against charging for absolutely everything and was happy to do some things for free. I now have an admin fee - the absolute minimum fee I charge for any changes. Do things for free and helping gets you no where unfortunately.

[Gibson]

smoothonline, on 30 October 2011 - 03:48 AM, said:

sorry i just mean your general thoughts across this forum, like on, ling cars thread, its good to have a heart but you probably wont ever be a millionnaire, lol

This is probably true. I'm not totally money orientated and will probably never be rich because of it. Guess I'm aiming for "comfortable"...

rallport, on 30 October 2011 - 12:32 PM, said:

Do things for free and helping gets you no where unfortunately.

This is very important. Doing things for free should be out of the kindness of your heart or some other reason if you are going to do it - a selfless gesture. Expecting any kind of renumeration or status because of it is unfortunately unrealistic.

It would be nice to think that it actually gets you somewhere but like you say, this just doesn't seem to be the case. We are fed all the old chestnuts by clients trying to get us to knock our prices down - the most common I find is them claiming you will get more work through them. This almost never happens. Or if it does happen, all you get is other people expecting the same gesture.

I will sometimes do a slightly reduced rate if that client is going to give me bread and butter regular work for example and the project is not just a one-off, if it helps me get the gig. My reasoning being that with the reduced rate I am buying security.

[Gibson]

smoothonline, on 29 October 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Would I like to let my morals slip to become a millionaire like them?

I think you probably share that sentiment certainly with me, and probably with a lot of members on here.

I'm not a religious man, but "Camel" and "Eye of a needle" spring to mind...

[Lieto]

Just make their thoughts go into right direction. If they want to spend less they will get clean and flat design without much details. If client initially disagree with estimate we just sit and think what we can do, hopefully he understands that if you cut design from 40 hours to 10 you cant expect anything extraordinary.

[smoothonline]

Gibson, on 30 October 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

I'm not a religious man, but "Camel" and "Eye of a needle" spring to mind...

I must have missed this bible lesson?

Char

[Gibson]

smoothonline, on 30 October 2011 - 08:16 PM, said:

I must have missed this bible lesson?

Char

Er.... what is it something about rich men having as much chance to enter the "Kingdom of heaven" than it is for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle (the "eye of a needle" being some gate somewhere that a camel couldn't pass through if it had loads of saddlebags etc.).

Like I say, I'm not actually religious so I may have got that slightly wrong.

[smoothonline]

Ok, now I remember.

You make it sound like one should be embarressed to be religious?

[Gibson]

smoothonline, on 30 October 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:

You make it sound like one should be embarressed to be religious?

I would say "No I'm not" and then suddenly I remember middle America's bible belt. But "No I'm not" I guess is your official answer from me .