[pandadoodle]

So after having ZERO joy with one agency apart from them sending muppets to me, I've been chatting with 1 or 2 other firms this week but they have been telling me I'm over paying (now I don't like to take the piss) as ideally what I want is a junior who has piles of talent I can keep and bring up through the ranks along side me and get them in cheap.

So without knowing much what are people prepared to work for and accept pay wife for a junior role? Without giving loads away this is what I'm offering

23k (been told to reduce this allot!), mobile phone, and choice of imac or power mac. After 3 other perks will be introduced also.

[Renaissance-Design]

23k does sound on the high side for a junior dev role, but you have to balance it against the fact that they're not going to be working alongside more senior devs who can contribute to their technical skills (if I remember correctly, you're looking for your first in-house dev?), which is one of the traditional advantages of filling a junior slot.

[mrchristoph]

My first employed job as a developer (only two years ago!) was for £17,500, and didn't get any pay rise after a year Thank god I'm now freelance

[pandadoodle]

Renaissance-Design, on 14 October 2011 - 10:29 AM, said:

23k does sound on the high side for a junior dev role, but you have to balance it against the fact that they're not going to be working alongside more senior devs who can contribute to their technical skills (if I remember correctly, you're looking for your first in-house dev?), which is one of the traditional advantages of filling a junior slot.

Yes! plus i want someone I dont have to hand hold I got a part timer here now coding a small project of mine. The idea also came about as I been quoted 40k for a personal project but if i took on a junior who could do the job for me for half the price and it takes 6 months longer thats all fine with me

Its finding the right person thats the key

[kingy da killa]

Well you could take them under an apprentice and pay them £2.50 an hour!
Just offer the job on apprenticeships.org.uk

This is what I did for about 12 months, then once I finished I got put onto £5.50

However I'm starting my new job as a junior developer/designer at quite a large company for me (30+ people) on 7 an hour which I think is a good juniors wadge tbh!

if your looking for somebody a fair bit exsprienced i would say 16k a year for junior role

This post has been edited by kingy da killa: 14 October 2011 - 10:36 AM

[mrchristoph]

Renaissance-Design, on 14 October 2011 - 10:29 AM, said:

23k does sound on the high side for a junior dev role, but you have to balance it against the fact that they're not going to be working alongside more senior devs who can contribute to their technical skills (if I remember correctly, you're looking for your first in-house dev?), which is one of the traditional advantages of filling a junior slot.

I'm intrigued - has anyone ever bought you a beer from your signature link?

[pandadoodle]

nah if i have an apprentice I will truly enter the dark side plus i dont want to be hand holding AT ALL

[brightonmike]

£23k sounds really good for a junior developer. I'm on a little less as a designer/front-end but I've only done this full time for a year.

[pandadoodle]

brightonmike, on 14 October 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

£23k sounds really good for a junior developer. I'm on a little less as a designer/front-end but I've only done this full time for a year.

You on what you first started with Mike or have you had a pay rise within that time? Dont have to answer just wondering if i was offering someone that would they want a pay rise every 12-18 months if that was the case i might try 19k

[mrchristoph]

I think everyone should at least have a pay review based on performance - I didn't have that in my last job even though they said they did in my interview. I think 19k is a fair salary, there will be plenty of talented juniors snapping it up!

[Renaissance-Design]

mrchristoph, on 14 October 2011 - 10:38 AM, said:

I'm intrigued - has anyone ever bought you a beer from your signature link?

Two people so far - although one was because he was amused by the link rather than in thanks for help.

Moving back on topic - I think 19's a fair starting salary, although you might need to hire in an experienced dev to assist with the annual review, go over code etc.

PS. It may be a sign that I've been doing this far too long, but as perks go I'd be more motivated by an Aeron than a mobile.

This post has been edited by Renaissance-Design: 14 October 2011 - 10:57 AM

[brightonmike]

I did start on less, and I got a 20% pay rise after 6 months. If that recurs, then I could be doing quite well quite quickly. Some of my friends earn more than me, but they never get pay rises, so to be honest I'd rather earn less and have that prospect always there. I think its better for development.

I think you could drop it to 18k. But maybe say something like, after 6 months if everything's fine and dandy, it goes up to 19.5k. That will show you to be an employer who is looking to help someone develop, be better at their job, cos with the prospect of a pay rise you create the motivation for them to be really good at what they do.

I think at 23k, you could end up with someone who just takes it for granted.

[pandadoodle]

To be honest people I've seen so far are either someone I cant get on with or have been total idiots.

Having a smart phone with unlimited talk, text and bandwidth is a bit of a perk if you ask me. After 3 months id be offering dental & private health care plans, free membership to golf club and gym membership so its not bad little package. Id even consider a DELL if the person was right for me and really wanted to work on a pc

I think ill take on board start lower and offer more and frequent pay rises based on performance.

I'm not in any rush to find someone either more than happy to drag it out till next year and start someone in Jan. If I had someone employed already full time it would be a different story then

This post has been edited by pandadoodle: 14 October 2011 - 11:05 AM

[ayoungh]

I'm looking for a Junior role at the moment and havent had much luck, I have signed up to tons of agencys and still only had 1 interview so far that was found myself. I'm ideally looking for a junior role that I can learn a lot in and that has a lot of opurtunites to grow within that company. I want 20k

[pandadoodle]

ayoungh, on 14 October 2011 - 11:03 AM, said:

I'm looking for a Junior role at the moment and havent had much luck, I have signed up to tons of agencys and still only had 1 interview so far that was found myself. I'm ideally looking for a junior role that I can learn a lot in and that has a lot of opurtunites to grow within that company. I want 20k

Is that your 2p or you telling me to hire you and you will accept 20k? lol

[kingy da killa]

ayoungh, on 14 October 2011 - 11:03 AM, said:

I'm looking for a Junior role at the moment and havent had much luck, I have signed up to tons of agencys and still only had 1 interview so far that was found myself. I'm ideally looking for a junior role that I can learn a lot in and that has a lot of opurtunites to grow within that company. I want 20k

I'll get you a job, my mate at the gym owns an i.t requirement company for web designing jobs.
I'll send the details when i get home

[brightonmike]

I think peoples expectations aren't really in line with the current economic climate. I started a fair bit lower than 20k....I'd never have asked for that as my first salary.

[Renaissance-Design]

pandadoodle, on 14 October 2011 - 11:02 AM, said:

Having a smart phone with unlimited talk, text and bandwidth is a bit of a perk if you ask me.

Fair enough - was just speaking as someone who's already happy with his phone, much less so with his chair (ouch).

[ayoungh]

pandadoodle, on 14 October 2011 - 11:06 AM, said:

Is that your 2p or you telling me to hire you and you will accept 20k? lol

Thats just my 2p lol If you was a little closer I might have tried to sell myself lol

[ayoungh]

brightonmike, on 14 October 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

I think peoples expectations aren't really in line with the current economic climate. I started a fair bit lower than 20k....I'd never have asked for that as my first salary.

I think Your right here in a sense, but as prices everywhere have risen, there is no option to be living with your girlfriend on less with out really struggling

[pandadoodle]

When I started I was on just over 25k you see, so this just proves to me how much times have changed.

[brightonmike]

If you start a career in lettings/estate agency, the starting salary is about £12/13k. In retail its £11/12k. Even the starting salary for an accountant is only £14k.

What makes you think a developer should start on nearly £10k more? It doesn't add up, it's not the real world.

This post has been edited by brightonmike: 14 October 2011 - 11:50 AM

[pandadoodle]

brightonmike, on 14 October 2011 - 11:48 AM, said:

What makes you think a developer should start on nearly £10k more? It doesn't add up, it's not the real world.

Because I'm bringing them into an office environment where there are no other developers apart from freelancers via the net, there is no support system in place if things go tits up its on his / her head rather than the lead or senior developer.

Offering a little bit more I was planning on attracting a higher caliber prospect rather than a weed smoking, xbox playing ass hole.

[welshhuw]

I started on 12.5k and had two raises, which I asked for, upto 15k.
That was in Cardiff. I quit and went freelance!

[brightonmike]

pandadoodle, on 14 October 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

Because I'm bringing them into an office environment where there are no other developers apart from freelancers via the net, there is no support system in place if things go tits up its on his / her head rather than the lead or senior developer.

Offering a little bit more I was planning on attracting a higher caliber prospect rather than a weed smoking, xbox playing ass hole.

I wasn't really thinking about you so much Panda. I do think 23k is a bit high but considering your setup it does make sense for you to offer more than an agency or corporate environment.

[pandadoodle]

brightonmike, on 14 October 2011 - 11:55 AM, said:

I wasn't really thinking about you so much Panda. I do think 23k is a bit high but considering your setup it does make sense for you to offer more than an agency or corporate environment.

Sorry I thought it was directed at me...

For me you see I class "Junior" as anyone who has not been in a working environment (studio/office) so I could end up getting a 5+ year experienced freelancer but due to family expansions they need financial security, like I get a real golden boy developer for next to nothing who I can bring up the ranks and pay them over 10 years instead of forking out 40-60k+ for someone on the same level now.

I doubt it will happen but you never know in today's climate.

[brightonmike]

See to me a Junior is not necessarily someone getting their first job. I'd still consider myself a junior if I went for a new job because the next level up is middle-weight, which I most definitely am not yet.

[skidz]

I've been with my company now for 3 years. I'm on 20kish. Personally I'd like a few more k's and I'd be pretty happy. I'd be chuffed as larry with 23k

[keva161]

I went for a junior job a while ago and the pay was around £18k.

£23k does seem a tad on the high side... but if you insist... just send me details of where to apply

[Gaelen]

It's funny I started reading this only this morning. I'm a "junior"developer in an office with the CEO, marketing person, and data entry person. So when **** goes tits up its my problem to fix and that's fine with me. I think what you are looking for is a fully trained/bright individual that you can leave be and they'll do whats needed?

My 2 cents on this is finding someone with the right attitude and right training rolled into one. I have no idea the cost of living there nor what anything else costs but what you are offering as perks sound great as far as someone beginning.

[TylerCollins]

I'm the main developer in my office, I'm looking after 2 VPS's I'm doing the SEO on all sites, all my sites are developed using wordpress and they aren't just basic wordpress sites either.

I've been in the job now 11 months and I'm earning 16k per year.

Yes I would like to add a few K's onto that, but I'm happy in my job, I'm just glad to be in a job!

[pandadoodle]

Thanks for everyone's replies its been interesting! I've now got a new package created and will be looking to hire in Dec / Jan

Those of you who asked, unfortunately I'm not in a position to help with relocation